33 replies to this topic

[patrickt]

Hello All !

                   I saw this (seemingly) old small tabletop newt for sale online. The seller admits knowing absolutely nothing about telescopes.  These are the only pics that were provided. I assume that its because there is in fact no label or anything. I wont know for sure until i check it out first (its within driving distance).

 

It could of course just be a novelty, like a reproduction (??) I have yet to ask for the length and weight. I know its not Solomon's treasure 🙂, but would be interested if it was at least not just a reproduction, but a true vintage scope.

 

Assuming its a true vintage scope, would you have any ideas about its age, based on how it looks ? Or anything else ? Thank You !

Patrick

 

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[patrickt]

I was looking at the pics again. It isnt a tabletop newt after all, just my perspective made me think it was.

[deSitter]

This looks like a version of the Gilbert 3" reflector. A lot of kids started with that scope! AC Gilbert made science-themed toys, and particularly, erector sets and chemistry sets. There was even a atomic energy lab with actual radioactive samples!

 

-drl

[ngc7319_20]

Looks like one of these Harmonic Reed Star Master scopes.  1950s vintage.  There's a nice one on eBay right now with good pictures...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144382772693

 

That one has a finder scope that appears to have been added later.

 

There is some discussion of one here on CN, though it looks slightly different from the others.

 

https://www.cloudyni...iant-telescope/

Edited by ngc7319_20, 18 June 2023 - 08:17 AM.

[Echolight]

Sometimes vintage is just old.

[apfever]

That looks like a Reed or a Gilbert or something close to that. In good shape, complete, with box, and actually capable of giving an image, they might sell between $50 and $100 to a buyer specifically looking for one. I have a very nice Gilbert that I pieced together from a few that have passed through here and I'd never take more than that for it (not for sale). I did have a buyer for one of mine that paid more for shipping than the cost of the scope. They had one as a kid and wanted a nice one for nostalgic purposes without waiting possibly indefinitely. I expressed concern about the shipping and resulting total cost but it was the buyers decision and willingness so off it went.  

 

I'd look at the posted one for grins if it were next door but I wouldn't pay $20 dollars for it because I have one. I could see $20 as a reasonable price for someone that wanted one. For under 50 bucks the price doesn't matter much. It's more the desire to have one. 

Edited by apfever, 18 June 2023 - 08:55 AM.

[Terra Nova]

Definitely original, definitely old (kinda sorta- like me ), and definitely not worth much. It was low end then and it’s low end now. If you want it to rekindle memories long past, go for it. If not, just walk on by, Renee.

[clamchip]

There's a very good chance it's a 3 inch Harmonic Reed, see my avatar.

I still have my 2-1/2 inch, Christmas 1966 9 years old.

Robert

 

[spames]

Looks nice.

Edited by spames, 18 June 2023 - 03:11 PM.

[patrickt]

ALL - 

          Sorry everyone, i have been trying to reply to you all since last night, but am having problems wirh my reply getting posted.  I'm thinking maybe its a problem with my (much longer than this) replies taking more time to get posted, then just not getting posted (??) Might be my sometimes unstable internet signal (??). Thank you all so much for your much appreciated replies ! I will try again later...

Edited by patrickt, 18 June 2023 - 08:58 PM.

[patrickt]

 Well, i decided to get it. Why ?

 

First, i realize that this must be in good abundance in the U.S., but is an extremely rare telescope over here.

 

Second, i also realize that, in its original form, would really just be a (somewhat) usable toy of sorts, but it is my enjoyment of old stuff that compelled me to get it.

 

Third, it was very cheap, and for good reason, it has no primary and diagonal mirror (no diagonal mirror stalk either), just the eyepiece.

 

All this said, i was happy enough to take it, because i also enjoy do it yourself stuff (only when its within my ability ).  Here are more pics of it. All i need now please is confirmation that it is a Harmonic Reed ??

 

I hope this message can be sent this time...

 

p.s. any way to fix the slop in the focuser ? the rack and pinion are sliding, abd refuse to engage.

 

 

 

 

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Edited by patrickt, 25 June 2023 - 04:10 AM.

[patrickt]

I assume the (broken) hole circled in red is where the diagonal mirror stalk attaches to ?  Sorry, i've had to "cut" some of the pics to get the file small enough to send it.

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[patrickt]

Under the mount

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[patrickt]

Primary mirror holder. Anyone know how to take off the entire rear mirror assembly, without further damaging the tube ? Notice a broke portion of the cell that actually holds the mirror (red arrow). I can only get an exact measurement for the needed primary mirror, after i've taken out the entire rear assembly.

 

And still more questions :

1)Is this a phenolic tube ? If it is, i have no actual familiarity with it...

 

2)The "skin" on the tube has peeled off from where it was joined, so what adhesive would work best.

 

3) How could i go about cleaning up the tube ? Not sure if its discoloration from water marks and/or plain old embedded dirt ? 

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Edited by patrickt, 25 June 2023 - 04:01 AM.

[patrickt]

Any way to repair this damage, or at least prevent it from worsening ?

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[Stevegeo]

The hole in the focus is the monostalk ( plastic) that held a tiny mirror, secondary..
A mear 1/2 by 3/8 i think, the mirror holder , done in zinc, may be fixable... but why bother.
Yes its cute, and dirty, but i would pass on this.. unless its free.

Fwiw... not long ago i had eveything for one of these, and had a very difficult time giving it away.
And it was New, never used, still in the box... go figure.

[patrickt]

    I could certainly take your stand, if i lived in the U.S., since there`s lots of them over there (though i might at least keep one). But over here, you`d be lucky if you even saw one...   

 

Using the tons of  FORD Model As and Ts over there as an example, their easily bought in the U.S. for less than 1000USD (U.S. dollars) to over 10,000 USD, depending on condition of course. 

 

There are only a handful of surviving Model As over here, and just 1 Model T !  That being the case, me and dad are only so happy to have found a 1928 A...but with a 1927 Touring body, so a mutt Model AT (likely grotesque for purists).

 

So there you go, just a perspective from my part of the world , Thanks for the info on the secondary mirror by the way.

 

EVERYONE - I`m still waiting on an absolute confirmation of whether this is in fact a Harmonic Reed (now that i took closeup pics of it). Also if anyone would care to address my questions ? Thanks Again All !

[mdowns]

Patrick still needs lots of input about his questions.Can anyone help please?

[deSitter]

Patrick still needs lots of input about his questions.Can anyone help please?

Well I wish I could - but I know nothing about these scopes. The mirror cell can be repaired with JBWeld and a small metal bridging strap for reinforcement. The tube was probably styrene plastic, not phenolic. If phenolic, it will have a characteristic odor that plastic will not have.

 

-drl

[deSitter]

 Well, i decided to get it. Why ?

 

First, i realize that this must be in good abundance in the U.S., but is an extremely rare telescope over here.

 

Second, i also realize that, in its original form, would really just be a (somewhat) usable toy of sorts, but it is my enjoyment of old stuff that compelled me to get it.

 

Third, it was very cheap, and for good reason, it has no primary and diagonal mirror (no diagonal mirror stalk either), just the eyepiece.

 

All this said, i was happy enough to take it, because i also enjoy do it yourself stuff (only when its within my ability ).  Here are more pics of it. All i need now please is confirmation that it is a Harmonic Reed ??

 

I hope this message can be sent this time...

 

p.s. any way to fix the slop in the focuser ? the rack and pinion are sliding, abd refuse to engage.

Yes that is where a secondary stalk was mounted - likely someone was trying to bend the stalk to collimate the scope and the plastic cracked.

 

-drl

[patrickt]

DESITTER -

                     JB Weld and a metal strap sounds like a good idea. The tube though is a spiral wound cardboardish material. I wouldnt mind retrofiiting an adjustable single stalk secondary holder, if their even available commercially ??

 

I honestly dont know what Phenolic tubes and Sonotubes are, but understand that Sonotubes are cardboard based, and strengthened to some degree. So maybe its Sonotube ?? Thanks for responding !

 

ANYONE else familiar with Harmonic Reed telescopes ? Thank you.

[deSitter]

DESITTER -

                     JB Weld and a metal strap sounds like a good idea. The tube though is a spiral wound cardboardish material. I wouldnt mind retrofiiting an adjustable single stalk secondary holder, if their even available commercially ??

 

I honestly dont know what Phenolic tubes and Sonotubes are, but understand that Sonotubes are cardboard based, and strengthened to some degree. So maybe its Sonotube ?? Thanks for responding !

 

ANYONE else familiar with Harmonic Reed telescopes ? Thank you.

Sonotube is basically extremely dense cardboard. Phenolic is a type of plastic that is/was often used in electrical components, and which gives old electronics a characteristic smell. The tube of the Criterion RV-6 was phenolic, and never lost its odor, even after painting. The trade name was Bakelite. Making it involved formaldehyde, which is probably the source of the odor. Small tubes can be made from spiral wound paper (Edmund did this), which are sort of like large toilet paper center spools.

 

-drl

[DouglasPaul]

Will Zen market ship to the Philippines?

[The_Vagabond]

Harmonic Reed Giant Telescope owner here. 

Tube is phenolic, believe it or not. Later models (and post Reed Steven's production) used cardboard. 

Eyepiece is a simple Ramsden, not quite 0.965". They did make others, as well as what they called a "Booster" which was a Barlow lens that could be inserted into the back of the eyepiece to vary magnification. 

Mirror is 76.2mm spherical, about f/12. Not bad for its time or price, very similar to those sold by Edmunds at the time. 

Secondary mirror is a simple square first surface, adequate, attached by means of that missing stalk from the focuser tube. 

Yours is a slightly later version than mine, with a better focuser and primary mirror cell. 

As for accessing the mirror, the only way you can do it is by removing those knurled knobs, taking care not to lose the springs, and letting the mirror slide out. Otherwise, removing the entire cell assembly will damage the tube. 

You should consider wooden inserts for the legs. One of the biggest weaknesses of the design are those lightweight legs. Also, replacing them entirely with wood is a possibility. 

Hope this helps. 

 

[patrickt]

DESITTER - Oh Bakelite, i vaguely remember as a child, reading that Dad's old tabletop radios from the 1950s had an amount of Bakelite. Safe to say though that this scope tube is not plastic at all, so maybe its Sonotube.

 

DOUGLASPAUL - I have no idea. I am planning to go on the cheap though, since this is really just a fun thing for me. I'm not familiar at all with Zen market, though i see its from Japan. 

 

THE VAGABOND - Thanks so much for responding ! So what years did the early phenolic tube ones come out?  When you say later models, approximately what years do you mean ? 

 

Sorry, "Post Reed Stevens production" ? I tried googling him and couldnt get anything. May i ask who he is, and years for "Post Reed Stevens production" ?

 

Oh, did i mention above that the only optics left in this scope, is the plastic eyepiece ? And thats why i was asking how to take out the primary mirror assembly. 

 

But then, you did make it clear that it would destroy the cardboard... Hmm.. 76.2mm diameter, i doubt i could find that size.. i'm hoping a 75mm is available ?? But then, i will likely need to make those three metal clips (i believe what yours has ?). Just wondering how i can work on the mirror mount without taking off the entire mirror cell ??

 

May i ask you why you say that my mirror cell is better than yours ?

 

What was the original color for the ota ? Mine looks like an extremely light brown ?? Really hard to tell due to the dirt and such on mine...

 

May i ask as well why you say that i have a better focuser (though mine has some slop now ) ? I may opt for wooden inserts to keep the original look of the tripod.  Also, i may start with how to clean up what might be water marks, or just plain degradation of the wrapping on the tube. Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for the pics as well.

 

EVERYONE - Please feel free to respond to my questions.

 

 

 

Edited by patrickt, 28 June 2023 - 10:12 AM.