12 replies to this topic

[Kasmos]

My first telescope was a SYW Mayflower 814 that I recieved in 1976 and in about 2005 I found another incomplete one at a swap meet.

It came as a OTA with visual back, a mount with controls and tripod legs.

The finder was broken off it's stalk and missing, one slow-mo clamp was missing, no tray, no accessories, and no box.

It's spent most of it's time in the original scope's box just being a place holder or a source for parts if they become needed.

 

The scope behind the box is my first 814 and the swap meet find is in it's box.

 

On the back burner I looked for parts to complete it and scored a few with extra EPs from other purchases.

Thanks to Sean (norvegicus) I recieved a replacement finder and stalk, but figured a box would never come up.

I thought about the possibility of buying a cheap scope of a different brand just for a box, but never found the right one.

 

Recently DouglasPaul generously offered one from the parts of a HOC version he was giving away.

(I was always interested in the boxes with wood insert as I thought about making some for my foam insert Manon)

 

The box as it arrived

I'd say it's in better than average shape especially considering it's age.

 

Cleaned and vacumed plus a couple of extras.

Edited by Kasmos, 24 July 2023 - 02:18 PM.

[Kasmos]

I figured it would be a good idea to address a couple of issues before storing the scope.

 

It had a few chips in the laminate and a few places where it was lifting along the edges.

I opened them up with pins and a toothpick and force glue in the gaps with an artist brush

I worked around the edges in several spots.

 

Since I only have two clamps I could only do it in a section at a time.

 

The worst chips in the laminate were on the bottom so I experimented with filling them.

I was too lazy to search for a putty and like to just use what I already have on hand

The putty is kind of old and dries powdery so I mixted it with the glue and paints to tint it.

This small one filled nicely in one try

These larger ones didn't but it would do for now and any further lifting is now stablized.

The two small chips on the top will be dealt with at a later time.

Edited by Kasmos, 23 July 2023 - 04:10 PM.

[Kasmos]

This little project interrupted another on going one, so some of the other small chips will be addressed later.

For now it was only important to get it cleaned up and to a point where the laminate won't be prone to more lifting and chipping.

 

Before storing the scope the last thing I thought I would do is treat it with some Linseed Oil

Here it is after that treatment.

 

Since it's a SYW going into a HOC box storing the scope wasn't quite as clear cut as I thought it would be.

Before I go any further, there are usually two styles of boxes that you come across.

 

Note the three arrows and compare the items pointed out with those in the box below.

These style of inserts are usually seen in HOC and early APL scopes.

The dowel to hold the Visual Back is to the right of the OTA support and is longer to hold a focuser extension and the VB.

 

This type of box (above) is usually seen in later APL scopes

The VB dowel (missing on this one) is usual short and to the left of the OTA support. 

(the platform it should be on is still visible)

The OTA supports are taller and therefore have deeper cut outs.

Because those supports are taller, the felt lined brace in the lid has a notch to clear the finder when it's closed.

 

There are variants of these two boxes but these are generally the most common. 

The variants have things like the dowels on opposite sides of the right support and of different lengths.

They appear to come either way no matter having what type of OTA supports.

 

For fun, here's one that may be one of the strangest...

...but it was probaly just a mistake.

All that's really different from mine is that the hinges and latches were installed on the wrong side of the box.

The arrows are there to point out features you'll actually see on many normal boxes.

The wood piece to the right in the lid is probably a stop for the mount's tripod hub.

I have no idea of the purpose is of thin strips in the upper and lower box or what they are made.

Maybe one of you has a box with those features.

Edited by Kasmos, 24 July 2023 - 04:06 AM.

[Kasmos]

The first obstacle to storing the telescope was the placement and height of the visual back dowel.

This and some other issues is why I used the play on words Boxed In as part of the tile. 

 

Positioning the finder screw behind the dowel made it too close for comfort.

Though there's a little gap behind the focuser and the box...

it can't be moved farther back since the tube clamp and objective cell limits the travel at the other OTA support.

 

And moving the finder forward had it's bracket resting on the OTA support.

 

A test fitting using the the Manon APL shows no problems with clearance at all.

It's finder is mounted on the focuser making it further back and lower in height.

 

Here's the type of HOC Manon that usually comes in this style of box.

Like the SYW it has a tube mounted finder but it has no problem clearing the dowel.

It's finders stalk/mount is angled back and must be a quite a bit shorter in height.

It's hard to see but this one has the focuser tube extension attached below the VB.

 

I usually prefer not to modify old stuff, so I had reservations about cutting the dowel. 

But after double checking I found that some of these same boxes came with a shorter one.

 

The easiest thing to do was cut it flush with the top of the OTA support.

Since there wasn't much space to work, it was still a bit difficult and slow to do. 

 

It's hard to tell, but now there's plenty of clearance.

 

This view shows the clearance much better.

Edited by Kasmos, 24 July 2023 - 02:16 PM.

[DouglasPaul]

The first obstacle to storing the telescope was the placement and height of the visual back dowel.

This and some other issues is why I used the play on words Boxed In as part of the tile. 

 

Finder-Screw1-c.jpg

Positioning the finder screw behind the dowel made it too close for comfort.

Though there's a little gap behind the focuser and the box...

Tube-Collar.jpg

it can't be moved farther back since the tube clamp and objective cell limits the travel at the other OTA support.

 

Finder-Screw2-c.jpg

And moving the finder forward had it's bracket resting on the OTA support.

 

Manon-Fit-c.jpg

A test fitting using the the Manon APL shows no problems with clearance at all.

It's finder is mounted on the focuser making it further back and lower in height.

 

Man-HOC-Clearance.jpg

Here's the type of HOC Manon that usually comes in this style of box.

Like the SYW it has a tube mounted finder but it has no problem clearing the dowel.

It's finders stalk/mount is angled back and must be a quite a bit shorter in height.

It's hard to see but this one has the focuser tube extension attached below the VB.

 

I usually prefer not to modify old stuff, so I had reservations about cutting the dowel. 

But after double checking I found that some of these same boxes came with a shorter one.

 

Dowel-Cut.jpg

The easiest thing to do was cut it flush with the top of the OTA support.

Since there wasn't much space to work, it was still a bit difficult and slow to do. 

 

Dowel-Cutoff.jpg

It's hard to tell, but now there's plenty of clearance.

 

Dowel-Clear.jpg

This view shows the clearance much better.

Sometimes you just have to do a little remodeling to suit the new tenant. It looks like it belongs there.

[Kasmos]

Fitting the legs in the box

 

The side of the leg with the thumbscrew affects the way you lay the legs in the box and I prefer to have the tray brackets on the top.

My 814 SYW legs are different from my Manon APL in a few ways and one is that the thumbscrew is on the opposite side.

From what I recall the HOC legs are the same as the APLs, but whether the thumbscrew side varies, I haven't checked.

 

I made some felt and foam pads to keep the legs from teetering on the tray bracket and banging each other.

I tried putting the legs in the box several ways but ended on this.

But note (arrow) that when a third leg is stacked on top, the OTA support will be too short to keep it in place.

 

This is likely why I've seen some people stack the two upper legs side by side and not just with Mayflowers and Manons.

I'm not sure I like that since the leg will essentialy be touching the focus knob.

I suppose I could put a piece of foam or cardboard between them.

 

The other issue with that method is how the tray bracket can come in contact with the scope's tube.

This means another piece of foam or cardboard woud be needed.

 

I decided stack all three legs the same way, so I made some felt padded leg keepers.

They fit just snug enough to stay in place.

 

But it's a tight fit and requires the upper leg thumbscrew to be turned for clerance.

 

I was a little concerned about that until I reviewed how it had fit in the SYW box.

The thumbscrew and focus knob end up basically in the same posistion.

The other thing I noticed with the foam insert is that it really doesn't fit the finder...

 

...But it fits the APL Manon finder very well.

These kinds of things make me wonder about the relationships between the makers and also the vendors.

So how does the foam that's designed for APL end up in SYW box?

Edited by Kasmos, 25 July 2023 - 02:16 PM.

[Kasmos]

Before I continue, I forgot to show just how bad the wood insert/supports were made on this style of box. 

The others with taller supports don't appear to have the same defect.

 

Note how tube doesn't seat into the support.

 

At first I wondered if this was a one off mistake but photos of other kits of the same type appear to show the same thing.

You can kind of see how the scope sort of looks like it's floating and also a bit of the gap.

 

Right now I'm into another project but one day I might reshape the contour of the supports.

Opening them up towards the accessory box would also slightly move the focus knob away from the tripod thumbscrew.

 

 

 

Edited by Kasmos, 25 July 2023 - 03:06 PM.

[Kasmos]

Before I finish up I have to address the tray problem created by this particular 814's tripod legs.

 

This 814s legs (shown on top) are different than any others I've seen.

Besides the darker stain the tray brackets are mounted noticeably higher up the leg. They also have a longer middle leg.

When I first set this scope up, I used a tray that matched the other scope, but it made the legs spread way too far out.

Was the bracket location a mistake or did they once make them this way? 

A temporay solution was to use a smaller tray plus use the second set of holes in the tray brackets.

 

That's how it (the scope in the back), was set up here.

It came to me without a tray so I wonder what size it was?

 

The problem is a smaller tray isn't going to fit the holder in the box lid.

I've thought about moving the brackets down the legs to use the same size tray as the other scope.

The screw holes can be filled and hid, but will the brackets old positions leave ghost marks?

 

While this tray's mounting holes dimensions match my other 814,

it's still a looser fit than what I see in photos of older Manons and Mayflowers.

BTW, those older models (APL & HOC) have very short tray brackets, making plenty of room for a larger tray.

 

Whatever tray I end up using, if need be I can make a tray keeper like this.

It was a test piece made from 2 layers of cardboard but one could be made from hardboard.

 

Anyway, here's it is all safely stowed.

I already had the correct 20mm and 5mm EPs.

I believe they generally came with only two and the other holes were for future additions.

The diagonal isn't a round back but works for now, the porro is a place holder from a AO scope.

I'm not much of a fan of the typical 2x .965" barlows so I haven't actively pursued one.

I could rob the one I added to the Manon kit since it doesn't have a proper slot in the foam insert I made.

Edited by Kasmos, 27 July 2023 - 12:21 AM.

[deSitter]

Before I finish up I have to address the tray problem created by this particular 814's tripod legs.

 

Leg-to-Leg.jpg

This 814s legs (on top) are different than any others I've seen.

Besides the darker stain the tray brackets are mounted noticably higher up the leg. They also have a longer middle leg.

When I first set this scope up, using a tray that matched the other scope, made the legs spread way too far out.

Was the bracket location a mistake or did they once make them this way? 

A temporay solution was to use a smaller tray plus use the second set of holes in the tray brackets.

 

Mayflower-Mayflower.jpg

That's how it (the scope in the back), was set up here.

It came to me without a tray so I wonder what size it was?

 

Tray-Fit.jpg

The problem is a smaller tray isn't going to fit the holder in the box lid.

I've thought about moving the brackets down the legs to use the same size tray as the other scope.

The screw holes can be filled and hid, but will the brackets old positions leave ghost marks?

 

Tray-2.jpg

While this tray's mounting holes dimensions match my other 814,

it's still a looser fit than what I see in photos of older Manons and Mayflowers.

BTW, those models have very short tray brackets, making plenty of room for a larger tray.

 

Tray-Keeper.jpg

Whatever tray I end up using, if need be I can make a tray keeper like this.

It was a test piece made from 2 layers of cardboard but one from hardboard could be made.

 

814-In Box.jpg

Anyway, here's it is all safely stowed.

I already had the correct 20mm and 5mm EPs.

I believe they generally came with only two and the other holes were for future additions.

The diagonal isn't a round back but works for now, the porro is a place holder from a AO scope.

I'm not much of a fan of the typical 2x .965" barlows so I haven't actively pursued one.

I could rob the one I added to the Manon kit since it doesn't have a proper slot in the foam insert I made.

I always want the tang on the leg bracket to be at least half underneath the tray, so you get good contact between tang and tray and so a rigid connection. Can't you shove the tang in a lot more here?

 

-drl

[Kasmos]

I always want the tang on the leg bracket to be at least half underneath the tray, so you get good contact between tang and tray and so a rigid connection. Can't you shove the tang in a lot more here?

 

-drl

Not with the tray that is suppose to comes with them, or the gray one I showed above. You can force them, but they'll interfer with the EP holes in the tray plus they won't sit flat.

 

It will work with the smaller tray since it's EP holes are aranged differently so that's what I did and showed in the photo of the two scopes: "A temporay solution was to use a smaller tray plus use the second set of holes in the tray brackets". Using the second set of holes in the brackets sets the legs at a angle that closely matches the other scope's stance.

Edited by Kasmos, 26 July 2023 - 02:22 PM.

[Kasmos]

An Epilogue of sorts

 

Mayflower on Top. While I thought their exterior was the same...

After I took this photo I noticed that the handle is different (not just color) as are the latches

 

Speaking of differences

The SYW box has a fragile thinner top and bottom laminate and uses staples instead of small nails to secure them.

 

Not only does this show that the lid strap is also stapled in place,

The box sides are veneer instead of solid wood.

[fizzlefish]

I actually have one of these sitting in my closet.  Picked it up a few years ago.  Haven't touched it.  How does it perform?

[Kasmos]

I actually have one of these sitting in my closet.  Picked it up a few years ago.  Haven't touched it.  How does it perform?

Very well.