65 replies to this topic

[justfred]

Hmmm... back to basics: make sure your finder is pointing where you think its pointing. :-) Choose the top of a power pole or a cell tower or something like that a few blocks off. do this in the daytime. I hate to admit that too many times in the past this has fixed my issue with locating things. :-)

[jmillsbss]

Going to start taking my 12 inch dob out hopefully I see something new

Probably the best advice no one has yet given....wait til the week before, and the week after, a new moon. That extra moonlight does absolutely nothing positive for DSOs!

[ABQJeff]

+3 recommendation for Sky Safari Pro. Best few $$s ever spent in astronomy. Has lists, you can import or make your own lists, input observing notes, audio tour on most popular objects, do evening planning, set field of view circles,
etc etc. I would not be doing astronomy without it. It is my astro BFF.

Next get yourself an RDF paired with a RACI 9x50 finder. Use the RDF to point to nearest bright star. Then star hop with finder until it is in a low power 2” eyepiece view.

[Marty0750]

In my view, most of the suggestions here are too complicated. For years I too have been challenged to find objects, especially in light-polluted skies. My standard was old fashion star-hopping using star maps.  Then I figured out this method, and with very little practice it can bring difficult-to-spot objects into the finder often in seconds! Forget fidgety clamping the phone to the telescope. Forget tedious star alignments. Forget goto drives and other similar paraphernalia. Forget star-hoping. My "Sweep and Find" method works best if you know the object would be recognized when you see it sweep into view.

 

1.

You need an Astro app (like Stellarium or Sky Safari) to give you the altitude and azimuth of the object at the time of observation. The nearest degree is sufficient.

 

2.

You need a protractor app. These act like an inclinometer displaying the degrees of tilt of the phone. This will be used to set the telescope to the altitude of the object as indicated by the Astro app. Make sure you first calibrate the protractor to 0 degrees on a horizontal surface preferably with the aid of a bubble level. You need to do this only once.

 

3.

You can use a Telrad but a finder is better because the light grasp and magnification help you actually spot and recognize a faint target object when it sweeps into view.

 

 

The procedure:

--------------------

 

1.

Use the Astro app to get the altitude and azimuth of the object at the time you are observing. Note the numbers.  The nearest degree is sufficient.

 

2.

Turn the scope in azimuth to the appropriate azimuth of the target indicated by the app.  This can be several degrees of error (that's right!) Eg. If the app says 142 degrees azimuth that's close enough to the southwest (135 degrees) so aim about that direction. I usually make it about 15 degrees to the left or right of the object's proximate direction.

 

3.

Turn on the protractor app.  Place the phone on the telescope tube or (rocker box in dob mount) so that it displays the elevation (ie altitude). Elevate the scope until the read-out is the altitude of the object as indicated in the Astro app. If the object is 48 degrees altitude, that's the angle you set the scope tube.

 

4.

Now you are ready to sweep. View through the finder and carefully sweep in azimuth without accidentally nudging the altitude of the scope. I prefer to deliberately begin the sweep in azimuth on one side,  eg make sure I am on say, the left of the object then sweep slowly right until it is acquired (or visa-versa).

 

5

That's it! You should acquire the object in most cases in less than 30 seconds. Often you will get it in 15  or fewer seconds.

 

Practice on some bright objects first like bright stars, planets, or Moon until you get the hang of it. I have picked up Venus in the daytime sky in less than 10 seconds after beginning a sweep with this method. A couple of nights ago in a light-polluted sky Bortle-6 and a gibbous Moon. I picked up the Pavo globular cluster (NGC 6752) in 15 seconds in a field devoid of suitable star hop stars.

 

One further tip is that I use an 8x50 right-angle finder on my 6-inch dob. This avoids my having to twist and contort my head and neck as one does in a straight-through finder. Makes for a far more pleasant viewing session and works very well with this Sweep-and-Find method.

 

Looking forward to member responses.

 

Marty

Edited by Marty0750, 01 August 2023 - 12:34 AM.

[NicasDream]

Yes the new moon wrecked my ##

I could barely see anything it looked like it was noon outside and I'm in bortle 5 xD

Hopefully when my tele vue nebustar type 2 and 12.5 mm get here it's better

I was looking for Caldwell 20 under deneb but nada or maybe I was looking at it I don't know I just gazed at a cluster of stars that looked really cool

Yeah but the moon made everything look washed out everything was gray horrible sky still enjoyed myself though last time I trust astronomy condition apps or weather

The best seeing I've had was when it was literally like cloudy with a 40% chance of rain XD

[Slip]

In my view, most of the suggestions here are too complicated. For years I too have been challenged to find objects, especially in light-polluted skies. My standard was old fashion star-hopping using star maps.  Then I figured out this method, and with very little practice it can bring difficult-to-spot objects into the finder often in seconds! Forget fidgety clamping the phone to the telescope. Forget tedious star alignments. Forget goto drives and other similar paraphernalia. My "Sweep and Find" method works best if you know the object would be recognized when you see it sweep into view.

 

1.

You need an Astro app (like Stellarium or Sky Safari) to give you the altitude and azimuth of the object at the time of observation. The nearest degree is sufficient.

 

2.

You need a protractor app. These act like an inclinometer displaying the degrees of tilt of the phone. This will be used to set the telescope to the altitude of the object as indicated by the Astro app. Make sure you first calibrate the protractor to 0 degrees on a horizontal surface preferably with the aid of a bubble level. You need to do this only once.

 

3.

You can use a Telrad but a finder is better because the light grasp and magnification help you actually spot and recognize a faint target object when it sweeps into view.

 

 

The procedure:

--------------------

 

1.

Use the Astro app to get the altitude and azimuth of the object at the time you are observing. Note the numbers.  The nearest degree is sufficient.

 

2.

Turn the scope in azimuth to the appropriate azimuth of the target indicated by the app.  This can be several degrees of error (that's right!) Eg. If the app says 142 degrees azimuth that's close enough to the southwest (135 degrees) so aim about that direction. I usually make it about 15 degrees to the left or right of where it is.

 

3.

Turn on the protractor app.  Place set the phone on the telescope tube or (rocker box in dob mount) so that it displays the elevation (ie altitude). Elevate the scope until the read-out is the altitude of the object as indicated in the Astro app. If the object is 48 degrees altitude, that's the angle you set the scope tube.

 

4.

Now you are ready to sweep. View through the finder and carefully sweep in azimuth without accidentally nudging the altitude of the scope. I prefer to deliberately begin the sweep in azimuth on one side,  eg make sure I am on say, the left of the object then sweep slowly right until it is acquired (or visa-versa).

 

5

That's it! You should acquire the object in most cases in less than 30 seconds. Often you will get it in 15  or fewer seconds.

 

Practice on some bright objects first like bright stars, planets, or Moon until you get the hang of it. I have picked up Venus in the daytime sky in less than 10 seconds after beginning a sweep with this method.

A couple of nights ago in a light-polluted sky Bortle-6 and a gibbous Moon. I picked up the Pavo globular cluster (NGC 6752) in 15 seconds in a field devoid of suitable star hop stars.

 

One further tip is that I use an 8x50 right-angle finder on my 6-inch dob. This avoids my having to twist and contort my head and neck as one does in a straight-through finder. Makes for a far more pleasant viewing session and works very well with this Sweep-and-Find method.

 

Looking forward to member responses.

 

Marty

I have use a very similar method before. Depending on the object, it takes me longer than your times but it works.

[Another_Dave]

Alternate proposal: the reverse lookup. Point the telescope at bits of the sky that look like they might have stuff in them and scan around. When you find a thing that makes you go 'holy heck, what is THAT', refer to your star map or star app and attempt to figure out what it is, look it up on Wikipedia for some fast facts etc.

 

In all seriousness, try lots of different approaches. You'll soon enough find the methods you like and the ones you don't.

[NicasDream]

Another Dave

I kinda like that approach xD
It fits my personality

[TheChosen]

Start with the Messier objects. They are the easiest.

You mentioned Caldwell 20. That one is very difficult from even lightly polluted skies.

It takes very low power (for me the 30x in my 8”) and an UHC filter to easily see it.. in a Bortle 4 sky. I had trouble seeing it without the UHC filter. Not a good target to start with.

[Dave Mitsky]

In addition to the other advice already offered, you may want to give AstroHopper a try.

 

https://artyom-beili....io/manual.html

[rgk901]

As mentioned previously:

 

- setting circles and angle gauge (when you get better only angle gauge needed)

 

- astrohopper per above post works pretty good

 

- old fashioned pattern recognition using red dot/telrad/rigel and an optical finder... point scope at nearest bright star, use optical finder to locate the dimmer stars / patterns and follow along to intended target (remember it's all upside down in newt so rotate phone / maps)

 

the hunt is actually part of the fun for me...

Edited by rgk901, 01 August 2023 - 11:56 AM.

[Slip]

M4 might not be the best recommendation for tonight. It gets pretty dim or becomes downright invisible with enough light pollution/haze/humidity/etc. Tonight the 99% full moon will be interfering. 

Yes, this is correct.

[NicasDream]

Going to get a digital angle finder and try the tube circle around the base for the setting circle

I'm just confused on how to measure the spacing? Do I divide the circumference of my base by the number of degrees I want to be able to read?

[Another_Dave]

I'm just confused on how to measure the spacing? Do I divide the circumference of my base by the number of degrees I want to be able to read?

Have a look at this YouTube video: Cheapest Quick-Aim Telescope Upgrade: Installing and Using a Paper Setting Circle for Quick Aiming

 

And, in particular, check out how he uses this free, scalable, adjustable, protractor template maker site to create a perfect printable setting circle for any standard Dob.

[NicasDream]

Yeah I saw that video but I saw a video where a guy made one out of tubing that can be adjusted

And printing takes like a week and I have a week off so wanted to see if I could make one I already bought the digital angle finder just need to know if I'm in the ballpark

My 12 inch dobsonian base is 24.5 in diameter and 76.96 in circumference

Do I divide it by 36 to get 10 degrees of ballpark accuracy until I print one out?

[Nankins]

You can use your phone.  If you can look up star charts online you might find that is easier than using an app.  I have definitely found that plenty of times the apps just don't work like they are supposed to.  Also, get a star chart (paper) and take it out with you.  I used to use my phone and also look at Stellarium on my computer before I went out, but late last year I bought a Uranometria set here on CN.  It's hard to use if you don't understand how it works, how large a degree it, etc, but it allows me to do my planning on the spot instead of killing my night vision with a screen.  

 

I see someone else has said to use a planisphere for navigating and learning the constellations.  This is excellent advice.  The star charts I mentioned above won't work well if you don't first know the constellations themselves very well.  

 

And for just easy help navigating to find objects, you can get a pair of binoculars.  Quite a few deep sky objects will look like small faint fuzzies in them, which can really really help you when locating them with the telescope.  I have a pair of 12x50s, and sometimes I use them for locating and navigating to objects, especially M101 since that I have found is a very hard object to observe in my telescope!  

 

Finally, get a Telrad finder!  It's just red/green (you can pick which color you want) laser circles projected onto a clear plastic viewing window.  You just put your head behind the finder, looking up at the window, and swing the telescope over to the portion of sky you want to look at.  There are three circles, and when things are properly aligned the innermost circle should cover the specific area of sky that you want to look at.  Unlike other finders, such as the RACI finders that a lot of people use, the Telrad is completely open so that you can see the entire sky while viewing through it.  In all honesty I would actually get both a Telrad and an RACI finder, or some combination of a Telrad and another type of finder such as the red dot finder, which is actually what a lot of people here on CN do.  The Telrad for getting us to the relatively general area of sky where our target is, and the RACI (finderscope; just a very small telescope) for pinpointing the object's location.  This is the combo I use, and it sure saves plenty of navigation and star-hopping struggles.  

[largefather]

in my opinion the most natural way to find objects is with a chart, digital or paper whatever works for you, and a red dot or similar. it might not be the easiest way but it is certainly the most intuitive way. once you have the red dot (or telrad or whatever 0 magnification look through sight) aligned and confidently sighted (in the day time on a far object!) it's so easy to just lean over the scope and look through to aim in the general location you want to be. most of the time this gets me in the ballpark (using your lowest power EP with the widest view of course) if i don't get the object right on, i scan around using a spiral search. making sure to keep stars in the view, i go one field of view left, then up, then right then down, etc. 

 

Then once i think i've found it, i confirm through the red dot against charts. 

 

works well for me. it's a bit hard when the object is directly overhead but it's fairly trivial to do it on any inclination. especially on a dob mount. 

[vtornado]

I use a "fusion" of various techniques.  Some things are not visible for me even though I am in the correct place, but then you begin to doubt you are there.  I live in a grey zone (18.6 mas) so many dim extended objects are washed out.

 

Max TFOV eyepiece is essential, use a  2 inch eyepiece if your focuser can handle that.

If you are limited to a 1.25 inch eyepiece use a 32mm plossl, or 60 degree 24mm.

This will give the most context for you to compare against any star chart.  Under

bright skies the 60/24 is preferred because it darkens the sky.

 

8x50 raci finder.  Around 5 degrees TFOV, however in bright skies the number of

stars visible may make finding patterns difficult.

 

telrad/rigel.  If you can see a star naked eye this is the fastest way to get something

into the main scope.  The problem is some areas of my sky have zero naked eye stars.

A green laser pointer is equivalent. You don't have to crane your neck to look

through the window with the laser.  This does come with some risks.

 

skysafari stellarium with digital angle meter and degree circle.  You may not need the circle.

If the dob is leveled, and you can dead recon azimuth, you can simple pan back and forth.

My "circle" is only an arc of 45 degrees.  That is enough angle where I can find a bright star,  and have up to 45 degrees to make the hop.

 

wide field binoculars.  Stand behind the scope and practice the hop that you

need with the binos. I think because they are planted on your face, it is easier

to use muscle memory to do the hop with binos vs. moving a tube not attached to you.

 

If I am in doubt about where I am observing, if multiple methods start agreeing with each other, it removes doubt about where the scope is pointing.  Several times I have been

in the right spot, but I can't see a thing.

[EricSi]

Once you have your Telrad, the guide to Messier objects for Telrad is incredibly helpful:   https://www.amazon.c...t/dp/B0006S18Y8

 

The same author also has a volume for double stars and one for "overlooked objects".

[Phil Cowell]

This is excellent for simulating what you could see visually.

https://www.eyeandtelescope.de

 

Thank the developer a lot of work went into the software.

I use a "fusion" of various techniques.  Some things are not visible for me even though I am in the correct place, but then you begin to doubt you are there.  I live in a grey zone (18.6 mas) so many dim extended objects are washed out.

 

Max TFOV eyepiece is essential, use a  2 inch eyepiece if your focuser can handle that.

If you are limited to a 1.25 inch eyepiece use a 32mm plossl, or 60 degree 24mm.

This will give the most context for you to compare against any star chart.  Under

bright skies the 60/24 is preferred because it darkens the sky.

 

8x50 raci finder.  Around 5 degrees TFOV, however in bright skies the number of

stars visible may make finding patterns difficult.

 

telrad/rigel.  If you can see a star naked eye this is the fastest way to get something

into the main scope.  The problem is some areas of my sky have zero naked eye stars.

A green laser pointer is equivalent. You don't have to crane your neck to look

through the window with the laser.  This does come with some risks.

 

skysafari stellarium with digital angle meter and degree circle.  You may not need the circle.

If the dob is leveled, and you can dead recon azimuth, you can simple pan back and forth.

My "circle" is only an arc of 45 degrees.  That is enough angle where I can find a bright star,  and have up to 45 degrees to make the hop.

 

wide field binoculars.  Stand behind the scope and practice the hop that you

need with the binos. I think because they are planted on your face, it is easier

to use muscle memory to do the hop with binos vs. moving a tube not attached to you.

 

If I am in doubt about where I am observing, if multiple methods start agreeing with each other, it removes doubt about where the scope is pointing.  Several times I have been

in the right spot, but I can't see a thing.

[bjkaras]

In the good old days there were no mobile phones or apps. How did we find anything? Its a simple finding chart.....  "left a bit, up from that triangle, half way to ..."

 

It just requires a bit of planning and preparation first.

Learn the skies, don't become a GOTO junkie!

Ah, the good old days. I got my first telescope when I was 16 and wondered how I would find anything. I found a used copy of Norton’s in a book store for $10, and it came with a Messier card, so besides the moon and planets the first thing I did was to complete the Messier catalog. I already knew the constellations pretty well, but it still took about a year to complete. After Norton’s I graduated to Burnham’s and from there to Sky Atlas 2000 and then to Uranometria. It was a gradual process over several decades.

[ShaulaB]

Even an inexpensive pair of 10x50 binoculars can be your friend. Practice with star hopping using the binoculars.

 

Once you have sighted M13 in binoculars, it is MUCH easier to get it into your Dob with a Telrad.

 

Yes, Sky Safari on a tablet is a great asset.

[star acres]

I and a dozen people were watching planes at an airport breakfast. I use a 9 or 12.5 wide eyepiece, but it often falls back on the red dot finder. 

[briansalomon1]

I've been using refractors for many years but added a dob just a couple of years ago, and am still getting used to learning how to use it. After getting your finder precisely aligned and getting the dob movements smooth, but not slick, I found it useful to use a wide field refractor (which I'm used to) to locate things and then switch to the dob.

 

The directions in the dob are different from my refractor, as well as my finder, and this takes some getting used to, but the FOV is quite a lot wider in my refractor and I find it useful to help me remember where I want to point the dob.

[Bob4BVM]

I've been using refractors for many years but added a dob just a couple of years ago, and am still getting used to learning how to use it. After getting your finder precisely aligned and getting the dob movements smooth, but not slick, I found it useful to use a wide field refractor (which I'm used to) to locate things and then switch to the dob.

 

The directions in the dob are different from my refractor, as well as my finder, and this takes some getting used to, but the FOV is quite a lot wider in my refractor and I find it useful to help me remember where I want to point the dob.

Yes.

 

And a wide field refractor mounted on the Dob is a pretty killer combo too !