Well, we agree that the SB80 and A80Mf are entry level scopes and are marketed as such. I believe they are both of better quality and manufacture than say the Celestron, Meade, ES etc. entry level refractors.
However to counter some of your demons advocate points:
The mount included with the SB80 seemed suited to the ota and usable to me. No comparison to the AZ3 (below), which I unfortunately purchased as one of my beginner experiments. The AZ3 would not even support my ST80 properly, the ota was too back heavy for it. For some reason Synta failed to include the counterweight system on the old Vixen mount it copies. The Porta II is great for short scopes, but it is about overmounted with a 80mm f/11 (80Mf,81M),114/900 newt or such in my usage due to moment arm. I have switched to a Stellarvue M002c on surveyors tripods.
AZ3
https://www.bhphotov...HRoCIrcQAvD_BwE
The Vixen A80Mf Pota II package is listed at 740usd-850usd in the US on some vendors sites. I do not know if it is still available thru the Vixen USA (Explore Scientific) distributor as neither the ota or the mount seem to be listed on the ES/Vixen web site (at least that I can find).
In the USA, the SB80 is 690usd complete. One can purchase a price point entry level AT80ED and Twilight I az mount for ~720usd plus cost for finder, 2in diagonal, eyepieces etc which could be easily 300+usd (a noticeable difference in price to some). Either would be a nice setup for a beginner or a more seasoned observer. Many of the CN following for the SB80 seem to be as a grab and go additional scope.
Good viewing,
Dave
Agree re: build quality --- I wasn't impressed by the SB80's build quality, but that was because I was comparing it to the otherwise similar-looking FC-76DCU (which had a much worse focuser than the scope I ended up buying, the FSQ-85, in turn). I had bad memories of older Synta fracs, especially with how sloppy the focuser could be, but they are still much cheaper.
The price argument is much weaker in Japan itself, where the SB80 is at 63,800 yen and the A80Mf is at 52k yen or so. The SB comes with orthoscopic EPs and the Vixen, plossels; but the SB lacks a real finder. However, both have a large price advantage over ED/fluorite scopes, as the SW72ED by itself is 50,000 yen and the SW80ED (comes with EPs and diagonal) is 90,000 yen. The Vixen ED80 set w/ Porta 2 is 135k yen and Starbase's cheapest offering is the FS-60CB w/ SW AZ Pronto is at 115,000 yen... and you still need to buy eyepieces and the diagonal, not to mention the FS-60CB, while a fine scope, is of a smaller aperture.
Within Japan Vixen also enjoys a much better distribution route than Starbase. The Vixen is sold in many camera or electronics shops in Japan in addition to astronomy shops; quite often it was one of the kits on display. You can quite easily go and see one of those before buying. As the Starbase is not a real Takahashi product, its sales is largely limited to --- you guessed it, Starbase, Takahashi's shop in Akihabara, Tokyo.
Personally though, as someone who lives in the UK and does imaging primarily, I fail to see why I'd want something that is essentially a well-built, but expensive, long F-ratio 80mm achromat. At 649 GBP you can quite easily grab yourself a SW72ED + diagonal + eyepieces and mount, or even grab a used Takahashi FS-60, or a larger ED doublet/triplet, eyepieces and mount for a bit more. The same goes for the Vixen. I'd rather get a cheap, collapsible SW reflector for visual instead, but I digress.
