115 replies to this topic

[Bomber Bob]

Great work Chris - Thanks!

 

Reminds me of that Hy-Score 457 that I cleaned & re-lubed.  At first glance, I thought this rinky-dink thing won't take long! and of course, I was wrong (as usual):

 

 

Grubs & hidden pins, and all kinds of tiny critical parts!

Edited by Bomber Bob, 29 December 2023 - 09:38 AM.

[Kasmos]

The mount is finished

 

Please allow the indulgence of these glamor shots.

 

 

 

 

ATCO advertised the scope with this side of the tube clamp down but it came to me as up.

After my filling and adjustments, it still won't rotate smoothly turned the other way around.

It seemed like I got it good enough to function but didn't test it with the tangent arm installed.

It appears that once the the arm is installed and tightened it pulls to one side.

All I can conclude is that when tight it creates too much tension between the uneven surfaces.

 

 

 

I can live with the clamp turned upside down.

But I'm still concerned about the amount of backlash of the worm and azimuth gear.

Hopefully it isn't intolerable in use.

Edited by Kasmos, 30 December 2023 - 05:13 PM.

[deSitter]

The mount is finished

 

Please allow the indulgence of these glamor shots.

 

Mount23 .jpg

 

Mount28.jpg

 

Mount52.jpg

 

Mount30.jpg

ATCO advertised the scope with this side of the tube clamp down but it came to me as up.

After my filling and adjustments, it still won't rotate smoothly turned the other way around.

It seemed like I got it good enough to function but didn't test it with the tangent arm installed.

It appears that once the the arm is installed and tightened it pulls to one side.

All I can conclude is that when tight it creates too much tension between the uneven surfaces.

 

Mount33.jpg

 

Mount34.jpg

 

I can live with the clamp turned upside down.

But I'm still concerned about the amount of backlash of the worm and azimuth gear.

Hopefully it isn't intolerable in use.

Maybe something compliant between surfaces?

 

Looks beautiful!

 

-drl

[Kasmos]

Friday afternoon I finally did a little more work on the 1252.

 

The objective was re-installed into it's cell and then installed onto the tube.

but before doing so I put three evenly spaced strips of black electrical tape

on the outer cell so that the slip fit dewshield would stay snug.

 

Since the OTA is finished and I've been tinking with a Unitron tripod I had to try it out.

Lately I'd been testing some 60/910mm OTAs and I have to say this little guy really impressed me.

Edited by Kasmos, 13 January 2024 - 05:44 AM.

[Kasmos]

The Tripod Leg Blues

 

This scope didn't come with it's legs so I had to come up with something.

 

Besides mine, I only know of 4 other gray and white 1252s and only 3 had photos of the legs in the box.

This one was recently on Ebay and the leg's inner and outer pieces basically fill the length of the box.

 

The same is true of this one and all of the black and white versions of 1252s

 

As of now I only have some legs that were intended for a uncompleted project.

They are from a small SYW made Lafayette and were care of Bomber Bob.

Here's the SYW (on bottom) compared to a leg from my Penncrest (on top)

I tried the Penncrest leg since they use the same Towa hub that was used for this scope and are more robust.

I also thought another set would be easy to find since they are found on many other Towas like Sears.

 

But there's two issues. 

While a little longer, they still don't match the originals and since the accessory box is glued crooked in the box

they won't fit in it with out squeezing them in. 

 

Then there's BadBacks gray and white 1252

His legs aren't as long as the other two 1252s but are longer than the legs I'm using.

 

Using the box hinge as a gauge, note where my outer legs end compared to his in the last photo. 

His appear slightly thicker and in another photo it showed that his center leg is longer as well. 

 

I also thought that perhaps the legs that came with my Crescent Towa might be a good match?

The center leg is better in length but over all they aren't that much better.

And while skinnier in this dimension they are thicker from the side.

 

These SYW legs are also a bit shorter than I'd like when the scope is fully set up

They also have to be spread a little at their top to fit the Tripod Hub's tines.

But for now they will have to do.

There is one small plus. They have a center ring for a chain like the original Atcos do.

 

All told, If I do come across some Towas legs like the Penncrest/Sears, I might fix the box to fit them? 

Edited by Kasmos, 09 February 2024 - 05:17 PM.

[Kasmos]

Well if I'm going to use these legs they'll need fixing.

 

Two of the legs were missing the tab that goes at the bottom that clamps the center leg, so they had to be made.

I just happen to have a peice of scrap metal (source unknown), that was just the right size in all dimensions and length for two.

It was fairly rough scrap but they don't show.

 

They came out pretty good.

I later found that you really don't need to countersink the holes since the screws aren't fully cinched down

But they do match the original.

 

I only painted one of the bracket collars since it was really bad and I could touch up the others.

It also gave me a rweason to see if a 30 year old can of wrinkle paint was still good 

Another reason, if I end up using these legs I'll paint them gray as they should be. 

 

The screws that held the bracket and the one surviving clamp tab were badly rusted so treated with Evapo Rust

 

I had a assortment of suitable replacements for the clamps and bought a few spares.

The dark gray one second from the right is an original.

Since the holes were kind of rotted out the longer ones worked well for the clamps.

 

I also made some shims for the screws that hold the collar bracket

They were made from a piece of a file divider much like a manilla folder

 

Two shims in each hole did the trick

 

The other parts will be touched up.

 

When buying the chain at the hardware store for some reason, black spoke to me. 

Partly because unlike zince it won't oxidize.

Their length was decided by trial and error and it surprised me that less than 2' was needed to make them all

 

Bottom line. Even if these legs don't become a permament part of this kit, they're now good for service.

Edited by Kasmos, 10 February 2024 - 03:30 PM.

[apfever]

Do those legs have an insert or recessed nut for the thumbscrews, or are the screws directly threaded in the wood?

 

It is important to check the length of any longer replacement screws used on the brackets. You don't want the screws to go all the way through and scratch (horribly gouge) the sliders. Believe it or not, I have found some legs with FACTORY screws that went through the rails and into the sliders. Now I run fingers down any rails I do to check for screws. It is easier to feel a small screw tip than it is to see one. A small band aid for the finger is no big deal if you are clumsy. The larger culprits can be seen. Check carefully. 

 

Do you leave the screws for the protector tabs loose, so the tabs have 'wobble' to adjust to the gap between rails and sliders?

 

I like the paper board inserts for the worn holes. I use twigs, toothpicks, sandwich picks, paper, bark, and some "what's that on the floor, that'll work".  I'll often throw in a dab of glue with a screw hole repair. Any BIG hole repair gets glue.  Here's a shop trick, use a skinny plastic fork tang for a repair with glue. The tang does not have to be perfectly straight, and it doesn't have to go in super deep. The fork tang just makes a guide hole to run your micro drill bit down later. The tapered shape makes pulling the fork tank out easy which I try to do once the glue has set up a little. This is for wood shop glue, not something that's going to grab the plastic. It is nothing short of amazing how much that guide hole helps in drilling out a glue repaired screw hole. 

 

A size 4X1/2 is a good size to start from if you have to shop blind. 

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Edited by apfever, 10 February 2024 - 05:28 PM.

[Kasmos]

Do those legs have an insert or recessed nut for the thumbscrews, or are the screws directly threaded in the wood?

 

It is important to check the length of any longer replacement screws used on the brackets. You don't want the screws to go all the way through and scratch (horribly gouge) the sliders. Believe it or not, I have found some legs with FACTORY screws that went through the rails and into the sliders. Now I run fingers down any rails I do to check for screws. It is easier to feel a small screw tip than it is to see one. A small band aid for the finger is no big deal if you are clumsy. The larger culprits can be seen. Check carefully. 

 

Do you leave the screws for the protector tabs loose, so the tabs have 'wobble' to adjust to the gap between rails and sliders?

 

I like the paper board inserts for the worn holes. I use twigs, toothpicks, sandwich picks, paper, bark, and some "what's that on the floor, that'll work".  I'll often throw in a dab of glue with a screw hole repair. Any BIG hole repair gets glue.  Here's a shop trick, use a skinny plastic fork tang for a repair with glue. The tang does not have to be perfectly straight, and it doesn't have to go in super deep. The fork tang just makes a guide hole to run your micro drill bit down later. The tapered shape makes pulling the fork tank out easy which I try to do once the glue has set up a little. This is for wood shop glue, not something that's going to grab the plastic. It is nothing short of amazing how much that guide hole helps in drilling out a glue repaired screw hole. 

 

A size 4X1/2 is a good size to start from if you have to shop blind. 

These legs have metal threaded inserts for the thumbscrews

 

I only used the longer screws only on the bottom to hold the protector tabs and gauged them to make sure that they wouldn't run into the collar bracket's screws coming in from the sides. The original screws were re-used on the sides of the collar brackets so there's no problem with their length going thru the legs.

 

I mentioned that the counter sunk holes on the tabs aren't really necessary since you need them to be loose. I actually adjusted them to sit how I liked them.

 

Over the years I've done several types of fixes for worn holes, like shaved scrap wood, matchsticks, toothpicks, with or without glue. The little shims of card stock were so fast and easy to do plus one of my other scopes has what looks like the same thing done from the factory. I didn't glue them since it might be taken apart again if I decide to paint the brackets gray.

Edited by Kasmos, 10 February 2024 - 10:43 PM.

[Kasmos]

While the whole kit is not 100% done I had to set it up for a preview using the (temp?) legs.

 

 

 

I can't decide if they are too spindly or OK?

Edited by Kasmos, 12 February 2024 - 02:21 AM.

[Kasmos]

And a few more...

 

In this photo I substituted a simple knob for the Alt-Az motion.

This was because the other control is missing it's set screw plus I wondered if it was more ergonomic?

The mount has more backlash than I'd like in both directions and some adjustment helped a little.

But in use I was a little surprised it wasn't too bad once I got use to it.

 

I really like the 'mechanicalness' of this little scope.

Is that even a word?

 

Just days before I'd had been testing some other scopes and after using them,

the images this little guy gives, once again impressed me!

Edited by Kasmos, 12 February 2024 - 02:25 AM.

[deSitter]

While the whole kit is not 100% done I had to set it up for a preview using the (temp?) legs.

 

ATCO-55.jpg

 

ATCO-82.jpg

 

ATCO-77.jpg

I can't decide if they are too spindly or OK?

Legs are fine! Betty Grable! Nice gams!

 

-drl

[Kasmos]

Legs are fine! Betty Grable! Nice gams!

 

-drl

Well they are basically the same legs that came with the SYW Mayflower 814s which is the same scale of telescope.

It's just that I know they aren't quite like the originals and I'd prefer them to be longer.

 

If I found the right wood I could use the hardware and make new longer ones.

And It would be super easy to only make new center sliders.

But realistically there's a good chance I'll live with them as is.

There's also always the chance that a junk scope with better suited legs will pop up. 

Edited by Kasmos, 12 February 2024 - 03:54 PM.

[Orion68]

What a fantastic thread, truly exceptional work. Thank you for sharing the process!

[Kasmos]

Box Restoration

 

I've been way behind on posting ever since I started this restoration and I really never finished with it.

As an example of this, the following photo sequences are from last July!

 

As bad as a the scope's condition was, the box didn't look that bad at all.

At least from the top.

 

SGW had packed it so tight in the cardboard box that it was basically stuck in it.

Then when lifting it out I could feel some of the bottom's laminate getting caught up in it.

It appears that this end of the box sat in water at one time since it was discolored, dried out, and lifting.

The two sections pointed out were barely hanging on so I removed them for re-gluing.

 

I lifted the laminate along the edges with pins and toothpicks and forced glue in.

I then forced more glue under the other liifting spots and clamped it all down.

I only have two large clamps clamps so I spread the force out with a piece of plexiglass and some bricks.

Under the plexiglass was some waxed paper so it wouldn't get too stuck.

 

Since I only had the two clamps, I glued this side after the other.

 

Here's how it looked after the clamps were removed.

Beforehand I tried bleaching the gray discoloring out of the wood, but it didn't help much.

 

This whole end of the box was very dried out so I saturated it with dilluted wood glue to stablize it.

And as it soaked in I continued to brush on more.

 

Continued in the next post

Edited by Kasmos, 26 June 2024 - 03:40 PM.

[Kasmos]

The areas of missing laminate were filled with putty.

I always just use what I have on hand and so I used some Elmer's Wood Putty.

It's really not that great for wood working but it's what I had.

To make it more durable it was mixed with Tightbond Wood Glue.

It had worked on the Manon box restore so I knew it would be fine.

 

After it was sanded smooth I mixed artist acrylics to fake in the wood grain in various colors.

The paints colors are highly saturated and I struggled to match the colors more than I usaully do.

Several times I'd get them matched pretty good, then thinking I could do better, ruin it and start over. 

I got tired of that routine and since it's the bottom I decided it's good enough!

 

To protect the paint I used Future Floor Finish (I could swear they use to call it Floor Wax)

It worked really well, dries quick and since the whole bottom could use protection,

I gave it all a couple of coats as well. It also helped blend it all together.

 

I began using this stuff 40+ years ago during one of my model building periods.

It was recommended in a Model Magazine for clear coating (by airbrush), after applying decals.

I then started airbrushing it on some of my artwork and homemade greeting cards for protection.

It's not made anymore and I found there's some chat on a model rocketry forum about replacements.

Or you can pay $50 on ebay for some old stock

 

I'm always my worst critic so at first I wasn't thrilled with the grain color matching,

but now after time has passed, I'm happy with it... and after all, it's just the bottom.

 

And a reminder of what it was like for comparison

 

Edited by Kasmos, 26 June 2024 - 05:25 PM.

[jragsdale]

Very big improvement on the bottom there, that's a lot of effort for just the bottom panel! I sometimes ignore that altogether.

[Kasmos]

Very big improvement on the bottom there, that's a lot of effort for just the bottom panel! I sometimes ignore that altogether.

Thanks!

While it did not need to be asthetically pleasing it needed to be structurally sound otherwise every time I moved or lifted it, it would likely get worse. I have other boxes that sometimes loose a piece of their edges every now and then and it's bothersome. Granted two of them in particular are in pretty bad shape.

[Kasmos]

Top Side Box Repairs

 

Other than some water staining and this chip, the top of the box wasn't too bad.

 

Basically it was handled like the larger repairs on the bottom.

A coating of glue followed by 2 coats of the putty/glue mixture.

 

Then carefully sanded flat, faux wood grain painted, followed by 2 coats of Future Floor Finish

 

This corner was in tact but must have chipped off during the bottom repairs.

After 1 coat of the putty/glue mixture, I figured why not glue on something that's all ready flat?

I used a piece of a file folder and coated it with wood glue.

 

A couple of days later I found the missing piece on the floor!

 

This was after the first go at filling this corners nicks.

I didn't want to mess up the surrounding finish with a lot of sanding,

so I only dabbed the nicks with enough putty to level them.

 

While it's not the best repair it's good enough to make them less noticeable.

Also, several times I tried to remove the dark scuffs like the ones seen here, but had not luck.

 

The fourth corner was just a little bashed in so it recieved a little putty as well.

 

There were a few other small spots along the edges that were given the same

treatment or were only touched up with a little paint.

 

At this point the last things needed were some inside repairs.

[LukaszLu]

Well done! Unfortunately, fragments retouched with opaque paint behave differently when changing the direction of lighting than a wooden surface covered with clear varnish, which gives it some features similar to reflective materials. Applying opaque paint and painting it with a clear varnish does not produce this effect. The painted fragment looks great in certain lighting conditions, and when we change its direction, it turns out that the painted place reacts differently to this change - it becomes lighter or darker than the wood.

 

I'm surprised that paints that deal with this shortcoming have not yet been invented - perhaps with some kind of metallic additive.

Edited by LukaszLu, 06 July 2024 - 04:24 PM.

[Kasmos]

For those still following this long thread, the next step was repairing the inside of the box.

It's been awhile since these things were done so I'm going from memory

 

When delievered the most obvious problem was the loose lid support. 

I don't know what the hex piece's function is but it has a slot for it in the box.

While some scopes have a piece like it to keep the tripod legs spread when stowed,

there's no reason for that with this kit.

 

The left bottom support was a little loose and the arrow points to where it's side support tore free.

The next arrow to the right shows that support hiding under the accessory box cover.

The right bottom support was very loose and all three right arrows show how it and the corresponding lid support does not have side supports.

I don't understand why it never had them and every 1252 I've seen is like this.

 

The first thing to do was remove the loose insert and clean up the interior of the box.

I used some fine sandpaper to remove the many scuffs and dirt marks in the wood

(especially along the top of the accessory box), and then cleaned the felt strips.

Although it's been cleaned up in this photo, there wasn't much evidence of glue being used... 

 

...and the same could be said for the lid.

Notice once again how unlike the left one, there were no right side insert supports 

 

Right upper insert glued in place.

 

The lower right side insert was glued and clamped in place.

The arrow points to small brass nail I added for additional support and attaches it to the accessory box.

On the right side a small shim was added since the insert didn't touch the wall of the box.

Edited by Kasmos, 06 July 2024 - 10:45 PM.

[Kasmos]

The Box continued

 

I added brass nails through the sides to help keep the inserts supported.

Some of my other boxes have nails or screws, so I figure they are a small and benign modification

The latches were also removed and polished.

 

The thin tiny nail for the bottom latch slo-mo holder was rusted and broke off so replaced.

Being a tight space, at first I wondered how I would drive it in, but the wood is soft so I just pressed it in.

 

Here's a shot illustrating their location.

 

The accessory box all cleaned up with it's loose latch adjusted.

 

The mystery Hex in it's storage slot.

 

The lid straps were quite dirty and stained so were washed by hand.

 

All done.

The only thing I didn't do was remove and clean up the box handle screws.

Edited by Kasmos, 06 July 2024 - 04:38 PM.

[Kasmos]

Well done! Unfortunately, fragments retouched with opaque paint behave differently when changing the direction of lighting than a wooden surface covered with clear varnish, which gives it some features similar to reflective materials. Applying opaque paint and painting it with a clear varnish does not produce this effect. The painted fragment looks great in certain lighting conditions, and when we change its direction, it turns out that the painted place reacts differently to this change - it becomes lighter or darker than the wood.

 

I'm surprised that paints that deal with this shortcoming have not yet been invented - perhaps with some kind of metallic additive.

It's funny you mention this since I really struggled with that just last night (I'll post that project another time).

These were much more successful (and really don't have that problem), than last night's project and I think it's because this boxes wood is light in color, but mostly because it is stained with a semi opaque stain or thinned paint. Last nights project was painting faux wood grain on areas that were puttied on some legs. The legs were oiled with Linseed oil and darkened and is much more iridescent than this box. The problem was straight on it would look good, then yes, at certain angles the paint looked chalky or lighter than the wood. The first two attemps were done like the box with acrylics and clear coated with the Future Floor Finish. The third and final attempt was done with model oil paints. Since they still had the same problems at some angles, I found that it looked better to just make them a bit darker than the surounding wood. I also know I could have done a better job with the color match, but I was tired dealling with it (at 2:00 am), and they mostly won't show, so left them be. I also find it's better to do touch ups in natural light, so I was actually very surprised when I checked them this morning. I thought I'd hate them, but they are good enough to stop fussing!  

[LukaszLu]

I know this very well from my wooden box renovations - I have never been able to overcome it. It seems to me that the structure of the wood resembles, in a sense, the structure of rear car reflectors, and this effect is intensified very much after the wood is covered with clear varnish.

[Kasmos]

Tripod Leg Refreshening

 

Technically this model and version had legs that were sort of white washed blond and with gray brackets.

So since these might be temporary I didn't want to spend too much time and effort on them.

 

This is how the legs looked before I treated them with Linseed Oil

I had already touched up the brackets so I didn't get a good photo of them while they were still scruffy.

First I wiped down the legs with mineral spirits.

Then lightly used a 3M pad and some 220 sand paper to soften bad scratches, burrs, and open up the old finish some.

This was done very quickly without much fussing.

 

I didn't completely disassemble the legs and only removed the center legs during the oiling treatment

At the edge of the brackets I applied the mineral spirits/lindseed oil mixture with a small artist brush.

I also used a small brush to get into the places I couldn't reach with the wipe on rag like the inner areas of the brackets.

 

The outer sides of the the legs turned out even better than the inner sides, which is a good thing.

 

I've touched up brackets before but this time I came up with a better solution.

First I painted in the all of the chips and scratches and dabbed the bigger ones to help make some texture.

Once dry, I brushed on a complete coat of paint over the entire bracket.

This made the the color and sheen more alike which helps blend in the chips better.

Since they are wrinkle finish they are fairly forgiving.

but you don't want to lay the final coat on too heavy and fill in the texture.

 

The chain loops had been taken off and polished a little and same goes for the thumb screws.

I didn't over do it since I didn't want to risk removing too much of their zinc finish.

Earlier in this thread I showed that I also had to make two of the lower internal leg clamps

 

A few days after they were finish I set them up to get a look at them and to sort of cure.

The light coming thru the garage side door made them look nice so I snapped this photo.

 

These legs were originally intended for a different project and were kicking around my studio for several years looking kind of rough.

Considering what they were like, I'm now pretty happy with them.

Edited by Kasmos, 08 July 2024 - 04:55 AM.

[deSitter]

Tripod Leg Refreshening

 

Technically this model and version had legs that were sort of white washed blond and with gray brackets.

So since these might be temporary I didn't want to spend too much time and effort on them.

 

ATCO-Legs-B4.jpg

This is how the legs looked before I treated them with Linseed Oil

I had already touched up the brackets so I didn't get a good photo of them while they were still scruffy.

First I wiped down the legs with mineral spirits.

Then lightly used a 3M pad and some 220 sand paper to soften bad scratches, burrs, and open up the old finish some.

This was done very quickly without much fussing.

 

ATCO-Legs-Top.jpg

I didn't completely disassemble the legs and only removed the center legs during the oiling treatment

At the edge of the brackets I applied the mineral spirits/lindseed oil mixture with a small artist brush.

I also used a small brush to get into the places I couldn't reach with the wipe on rag like the inner areas of the brackets.

 

ATCO-Legs-Top2.jpg

The outer sides of the the legs turned out even better than the inner sides, which is a good thing.

 

ATCO-Legs-Mid.jpg

I've touched up brackets before but this time I came up with a better solution.

First I painted in the all of the chips and scratches and dabbed the bigger ones to help make some texture.

Once dry, I brushed on a complete coat of paint over the entire bracket.

This made the the color and sheen more alike which helps blend in the chips better.

Since they are wrinkle finish they are fairly forgiving.

but you don't want to lay the final coat on too heavy and fill in the texture.

 

ATCO-Legs-Bot.jpg

The chain loops had been taken off and polished a little and same goes for the thumb screws.

I didn't over do it since I didn't want to risk removing too much of their zinc finish.

Earlier in this thread I showed that I also had to make two of the lower internal leg clamps

 

ATCO-Legs-Done-2.jpg

A few days after they were finish I set them up to get a look at them and to sort of cure.

The light coming thru the garage side door made them look nice so I snapped this photo.

 

These legs were originally intended for a different project and were kicking around my studio for several years looking kind of rough.

Considering what they were like, I'm now pretty happy with them.

Those look great! You don't need to go all out to get a great result.

 

-drl