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Measuring Temperature Drops During Eclipse

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#1 BellX2

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 09:39 AM

I'm looking to make observations of a different variety during the 24 eclipse here in KY. My plan is to use a data logging thermometer (http://www.elitechlo...re-data-logger/) at a two minute interval starting at least an hour or two before totality. I'm curious if anyone else will be doing similar observations and if those who tried this in 2017 have any advice on equipment or setup. 


Edited by BellX2, 24 August 2023 - 09:49 AM.


#2 Seldom

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 10:53 AM

Looks like a neat project.  From my recollection of 2017 in Idaho Falls, you might want to vary your intervals.  2 minutes after first contact and 1 minute approaching second contact.


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#3 BellX2

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 11:35 AM

Looks like a neat project.  From my recollection of 2017 in Idaho Falls, you might want to vary your intervals.  2 minutes after first contact and 1 minute approaching second contact.

I'm locked into two minutes for the particular instrument I bought but I will have a analogue thermometer too. The response time on the analogue I bet is 5 minutes so its not really a rapid response instrument. I have thought of recording (video) a analogue and digital thermometer with my tablet but I'm basically doing the same thing as the data logger at that point. I tried to find a data logger thermometer with 1 minute intervals but no luck yet.



#4 Seldom

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 11:51 AM

If you have an old Mac it might be worthwhile downloading a copy of Solar Eclipse Maestro.  It's a photographic tool, but the simulations should give you an idea of how much light/heat you'll be getting when.


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#5 BellX2

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 01:06 PM

If you have an old Mac it might be worthwhile downloading a copy of Solar Eclipse Maestro.  It's a photographic tool, but the simulations should give you an idea of how much light/heat you'll be getting when.

Is there a similar program for windows or android?



#6 SteveInNZ

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 02:32 PM

I know that Wolfgang Strickling recorded it (and other stuff) at the 2016 eclipse in Indonesia and I expect that he would have data for other eclipses. Have a bit of a Google.

 

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#7 BellX2

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 03:09 PM

I know that Wolfgang Strickling recorded it (and other stuff) at the 2016 eclipse in Indonesia and I expect that he would have data for other eclipses. Have a bit of a Google.

 

Steve.

Thanks. I found his site (https://www.strickli...eclipse_pro.htm). I'll have to email him and see what his findings were. Also did find this pdf on temperature and cloud monitoring during the eclipse: (https://eclipse.aas....akout6_Kohl.pdf)



#8 emh52

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 03:35 PM

I took a different approach, I recorded the thermal scene with FLIR in 2023 at Ah Chong island TSE a drop is visible but the eclipse was short (62 sec) and high in the sky and the chill was not what I felt in Chile in 2019. Maybe TX in 2024 being longer will be better. This shows what I recorded, it is the ground that is important not the eclipse to visualize so the TSE being high was not recorded. It does work but the effect for this eclipse was not dramatic.

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  • temp drop 2023.jpg

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#9 Seldom

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 04:07 PM

Is there a similar program for windows or android?

Eclipse Orchestrator for Windows, but it's much less flexible.


Edited by Seldom, 24 August 2023 - 04:10 PM.

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#10 kfiscus

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 04:54 PM

I'm much older school.  I'd use a GoPro or similar pointed at a digital or analog thermometer, possibly with a white sheet in the background for capturing shadow bands.

 

I think you can expect about a 10-degree drop.


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#11 BellX2

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 06:02 PM

I'm much older school.  I'd use a GoPro or similar pointed at a digital or analog thermometer, possibly with a white sheet in the background for capturing shadow bands.

 

I think you can expect about a 10-degree drop.

I may do this too as a backup (though the data loggers are fairly cheap at 23 dollars, I'm not wanting to invest too much). I bought a window thermometer and will record using a go-pro from inside the house. The chair as a means to notice shadow bands is a great idea!



#12 BellX2

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 06:19 PM

I took a different approach, I recorded the thermal scene with FLIR in 2023 at Ah Chong island TSE a drop is visible but the eclipse was short (62 sec) and high in the sky and the chill was not what I felt in Chile in 2019. Maybe TX in 2024 being longer will be better. This shows what I recorded, it is the ground that is important not the eclipse to visualize so the TSE being high was not recorded. It does work but the effect for this eclipse was not dramatic.

Fascinating. 



#13 foxwoodastronomy

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 10:16 PM

Good subject and a good thread.  I've done temp logging three times at eclipses, 2 successfully and one failure.  The failure was using an Extech data logger with a sensor surrounded by too much plastic case resulting in too much thermal mass.  The device could not respond quickly enough to register the subtle, but steady drop at the temperature at the 2017 eclipse.  I used a device called a Thermochron iButton in 2002 and 2019.  They are wonderful!  You program them to start and stop logging data with a computer using their mini-docking station.  Then after the event you download the data.  They have a low thermal mass so the respond quickly and they have a small plastic hanger so you can hang them anywhere in the shade.

 

I think the Elitech device shown by BellX2 in the initial post will have too much self-thermal-mass to respond quickly enough to eclipse ambient air temperature changes.  I've made the same mistake.  Chapter 4 of my book is about measuring eclipse temperature changes.

Attached Thumbnails

  • i button.jpg
  • in tripod.jpg
  • low thermal mass.jpg
  • hand logging.jpg
  • 2019.jpg

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#14 BellX2

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 10:49 PM

Good subject and a good thread.  I've done temp logging three times at eclipses, 2 successfully and one failure.  The failure was using an Extech data logger with a sensor surrounded by too much plastic case resulting in too much thermal mass.  The device could not respond quickly enough to register the subtle, but steady drop at the temperature at the 2017 eclipse.  I used a device called a Thermochron iButton in 2002 and 2019.  They are wonderful!  You program them to start and stop logging data with a computer using their mini-docking station.  Then after the event you download the data.  They have a low thermal mass so the respond quickly and they have a small plastic hanger so you can hang them anywhere in the shade.

 

I think the Elitech device shown by BellX2 in the initial post will have too much self-thermal-mass to respond quickly enough to eclipse ambient air temperature changes.  I've made the same mistake.  Chapter 4 of my book is about measuring eclipse temperature changes.

You saved me from making a big mistake. Turns out the Elitech that I bought has an optional attachment for an external probe. It simply replaces the USB cover. The only bad part was they didn't sell it on Amazon so I had to pay extra shipping but thats much easier than having to return everything.

 

I really appreciate you posting those pages. 

 

https://www.elitechu...perature-sensor

 

I will still be filming a analogue thermometer as a backup too. Only get one try at this unless I want to travel to see the next one.


Edited by BellX2, 24 August 2023 - 11:27 PM.


#15 BellX2

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Posted 25 August 2023 - 12:03 AM

Just saw Gordon's fantastic video on this subject. Posting it here so others don't make the mistake I was about to in regards to sensor choices:

 

https://youtu.be/mRd...gWYzuFOS3LApz0n



#16 foxwoodastronomy

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Posted 25 August 2023 - 06:32 AM

Hi BellX2.  Happy to help you figure this out!  Logging the temperature at an eclipse is fun to do.  I believe the probe extension you purchased will now make your logger work well.  Thanks for posting the link to my YouTube video about my logging mistake in 2017 and thanks for your supportive comment.  I was going to post that link today.  Here is a link to my second video about temp logging based on my experience in 2019 in Argentina.   I have a lot of other helpful tips in my other YouTube videos, so check them out.



#17 BellX2

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Posted 25 August 2023 - 10:06 AM

Hi BellX2.  Happy to help you figure this out!  Logging the temperature at an eclipse is fun to do.  I believe the probe extension you purchased will now make your logger work well.  Thanks for posting the link to my YouTube video about my logging mistake in 2017 and thanks for your supportive comment.  I was going to post that link today.  Here is a link to my second video about temp logging based on my experience in 2019 in Argentina.   I have a lot of other helpful tips in my other YouTube videos, so check them out.

No problem. I have always wanted to visit Argentina so I'm interested in checking out your other video. I was gonna say your website, book and YouTube channel are practically a course in eclipse science. Thanks for helping out. Once we get closer I may start a thread for people to post data from this. I think GLOBE also allows people to post thermometer data. If you know of any other places to post thermometer data I'd appreciate your input.

 

GLOBE: https://observer.glo...ng-observations

https://www.globe.go.../data-entry-app


Edited by BellX2, 25 August 2023 - 10:13 AM.


#18 foxwoodastronomy

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Posted 25 August 2023 - 10:36 AM

No problem. I have always wanted to visit Argentina so I'm interested in checking out your other video. I was gonna say your website, book and YouTube channel are practically a course in eclipse science. Thanks for helping out. Once we get closer I may start a thread for people to post data from this. I think GLOBE also allows people to post thermometer data. If you know of any other places to post thermometer data I'd appreciate your input.

 

GLOBE: https://observer.glo...ng-observations

https://www.globe.go.../data-entry-app

Thanks for your nice comment on my eclipse work.  It's gratifying to hear.  I love to teach about eclipses because I've been blessed to have traveled to five of them and love them.  So, I have two goals:  1. For people in the United States for whom 2024 may be their first and only eclipse I want them to get the most out of it.  As I discuss to in my book (paraphrased) "give them knowledge and confidence to enjoy the eclipse beyond that of their actual experience." 2. For people who 2017 was their first one and they want to enjoy more and image better in 2024.  That is why I do all this work.  Thanks!


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#19 Nicole Sharp

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 05:37 PM

I'm looking to make observations of a different variety during the 24 eclipse here in KY. My plan is to use a data logging thermometer (http://www.elitechlo...re-data-logger/) at a two minute interval starting at least an hour or two before totality. I'm curious if anyone else will be doing similar observations and if those who tried this in 2017 have any advice on equipment or setup. 

What about nuclear radiation?  I just ordered the nuclear radiation dosimeter to bring to New Mexico for the upcoming Annular Solar Eclipse on October 14.  There are a couple of nuclear explosion testing sites open to the public in New Mexico plus there is the Trinity Site open house the weekend after the Annular Solar Eclipse.  I was curious though if I could detect cosmic radiation from the Sun using a radiation dosimeter?  Should be easy enough to test by logging the radiation levels and seeing if they go up and down between daytime and nighttime.

 

The nuclear radiation dosimeter has wifi and will upload continuous real-time radiation readings to a phone, computer, or remote internet server.  The radiation logs can also be exported as TXT, CSV, or HTML.

 

https://www.gmcmap.com/



#20 BellX2

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 10:42 PM

I like to make leaf electroscopes as a hobby so I did think about this. The consensus in some papers I have read is there isn't much variation (see https://www.scienced...92765052100092X https://pubs.aip.org...edFrom=fulltext http://file:///D:/Do...se 2020 (1).pdf ) Still might be a fun idea though.


Edited by BellX2, 04 October 2023 - 10:43 PM.


#21 BellX2

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 10:45 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Victor Hess did a balloon flight during a eclipse to see if the cosmic rays were coming from the sun (which would be blocked in theory by the moon) didn't find much variation.


Edited by BellX2, 04 October 2023 - 10:56 PM.


#22 FXM

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 11:23 PM

For the 2017 total solar eclipse I used the Kestral fire weather drop $129. But they make a cheaper one that is $69 dollars.

 

You can export the files and view in Excel.

 

https://kestrelmeter...ts/kestrel-drop

 

Here is the file from 2017, we were located in Gracey, Kentucky.

Attached File  export_TotalSolarEclipse_2017_8_27_14_35_57.xls   307KB   27 downloads

 

Graph for the temp.

Temp2.png


Edited by FXM, 04 October 2023 - 11:30 PM.

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#23 BellX2

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 11:36 PM

For the 2017 total solar eclipse I used the Kestral fire weather drop $129. But they make a cheaper one that is $69 dollars.

 

You can export the files and view in Excel.

 

https://kestrelmeter...ts/kestrel-drop

 

Here is the file from 2017, we were located in Gracey, Kentucky.

attachicon.gif export_TotalSolarEclipse_2017_8_27_14_35_57.xls

 

Graph for the temp.

attachicon.gif Temp2.png

Are you going to be in KY for the 24? BTW your photos of the NG-19 launch are spectacular! 



#24 FXM

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 11:43 PM

We would love to go back to Kentucky, all depends on that weather right? ;-)

Thank you for comments on the Antares launch, was lucky enough to get remote camera access. I was so happy everything worked.

#25 BellX2

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 11:49 PM

We would love to go back to Kentucky, all depends on that weather right? ;-)

Thank you for comments on the Antares launch, was lucky enough to get remote camera access. I was so happy everything worked.

Lately its been more like summer. I'm hoping things hold good through the October annular so I can test my temperature rig. The rocket plume photos are great. I'm torn between the photo right before it gets too far off the pad or the one where you can really see the exhaust. 


Edited by BellX2, 04 October 2023 - 11:50 PM.

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