238 replies to this topic

[mondo1948]

Astronomy reminds me of my other hobby, which is model railroading.  Many of us get a train set for a birthday or Christmas present when we are children and that gets us interested in the hobby.  However, as youngsters, we don't have the money to spend on all the stuff required to build a large, time consuming layout and with school and all the other activities that take up our time, our interest wains.  However, later in life, when we have the money and time in our retirement years, our interests can grow proportionally.  That's what happened to me with model trains and astronomy.  I got a train set for Christmas when I was 5 years old in 1953  and a telescope for my birthday in 1960 when I was 12.  In 1993, I really got into model trains in a big way and over 30 years later, I currently have 40 engines, 200 freight cars and cabooses and am working on a 26' x 26' layout that I probably won't finish until I reach 106 years old.  Four years ago when Covid hit, I got interested in astronomy again after a friend gave me a telescope.  I've since bought 3 telescopes and as you can see from my signature, my equipment has grown tremendously.  So, thank goodness for those early intros to trains and astronomy.  Those early gifts developed my interests for the future.

 

So, to sum up, buy kids a suitable telescope and help them develop that early interest.  And, while you're at it, buy them a trainset and bring them to a local train show when they pop up in your area.

 

Clear Skies,

Mondo

 

p.s.  I almost forgot.....my dad brought me home a microscope when I was 10 when he returned from military training.  That led to my interest in biology which I minored in in college and ended up teaching for a couple of years in high school.  I still do microscopy and have a real nice microscope.

Edited by mondo1948, 01 June 2024 - 10:59 AM.

[sn2006gy]

I found an archive of Sky and Telescope going all the way back to the 60s and as I browsed through, two things stood out.

 

1) Takahashi's were freaking expensive in the past and still are today

2) There used to be a lot more opportunity to do astronomy.

 

I was blown away at reading old issues of sky and telescope at how these people with average jobs were able to have so much in their life.  A teacher working for elementary school that has a 2 story home with a 3 story attached observatory???  The machinist who worked manufacturing for 30 years and retired at 55 who has 100 acres of land and multiple domes that they bought for 800 bucks in 1984 that today would cost 22k even though inflation suggests a mere $3995 should be the modern cost.

 

There used to be a cottage industry of DIY as well.. every single issue of Sky and Telescope through the 50s, 60s, 70s and even 80s and early 90s always were full of how to build, polish, make your own scopes and mirrors and so many companies were competing to sell you everything from refractor lenses to glass cells and polishing kits.  This just absolutely doesn't exist at all today whatsoever  - finding the books and magazines to help you do this now is increasingly hard and when you do find them, you're continuously reminded at how that 400 dollar ginormous dobs someone built in 1984 is now  many 1000s of dollars of stuff and we don't have the army surplus, construction surplus, the use of retired machining equipment or people even willing to machine something...

 

Inversely, we have a lot more tech and a lot more mid range gear today we can choose from but it biases towards astrophotography and modern life biases towards automating that because we can't stay up all night when we have full time jobs that demand 800 percent more efficiency out of us than someone else was expected of just 40 years ago.

 

Also, in the 80s, people often didn't have cable, internet, cell phones, tv subscriptions, kids tend to be free range rather than scheduled activities and there used to be a lot more public land to go and explore and be creative or inspired by - whether dark skies or a soothing stream to play in.

 

but at the same time, having internet/cell phone/tv means you can watch a lot of shows, download images and do a lot of things that couldn't be done before without having to ever touch a scope or a camera or look through an eye piece so many folks may wonder why to do it themselves, if they can just watch the Universe on TV or go to nasa website and see what a 20 billion dollar scope can do.

 

BUT...  all things considered - the discord astro servers are chock full of young folks, the gear is selling like hot cakes, we've never had things better as far as image quality goes and what you can get from a telescope in a backyard... but it doesn't have the charm of what looks like the simple life of history.  Not many young kids are going to relate to the 2 story house on 100 acres with an attached 3 story observatory that a teacher got when todays teachers won't be anywhere near owning such... so today they have to be OK with whatever they buy online and have no ambition to build since they don't even have a garage to begin with. 

 

sadly, i agree with what someone said earlier.  Kids didn't make this  world, we did. They're the ones living in a future that we made harder for them... from capitalism run amok to light pollution, general pollution and no concept of a strong future... worst of all, the people who ruined their future blame them for not wanting to live in it and no one is happy for it.

 

can we change it? i hope so...

 

I see lots of people who donate scopes to charities or church or their local club, but dang, when a normal person is interested, it's time for capitalism to kick right in because we have to make a buck... even though that orange SCT has been sitting in a shed for dog gone 30 years now and will need some TLC to get working anyway

 

someone mentioned trains as  a hobby - it's similar too but luckily there 3d printing was a savior from having to depend on capitalism run amok.

 

guess my rant is done.  If we want people to enjoy hobbies, they need the free time and more importantly, they need to have the opportunity for such for having done what was normal work before.

 

buying a cheap scope online that you use in ok conditions in a city today just isn't as inspiring as your own observatory attached to your house that could be realized working a normal job...  they bought their house for 40k, built that observatory for 4k and then they turn around and sell it to the youth today for millions and wonder why not many are interested

[ABQJeff]

“Star Party — Taylor’s Version!” Would sell out in 5 mins. Now just to figure out how to book her…

[jakabasej8]

A lot of municipalities have already spoken for astronomy. They are on the wrong side. Park closes at dusk. Big lights on stalks left on at night. Taxpayers almost pay for grass growing after dark. We should keep our viewing dark but flash the telescopes around at day.

It's frustrating when municipal decisions don't align with the needs of the astronomy community.

[Phil Cowell]

Well said. I think folks who say they don’t see so many young astronomers are looking in the wrong places. They are online, streaming, using social media and sharing captures from smart devices that are now cheaper or similar priced as an 8” dob. Look where they are and you’ll see them. If your looking to buy vegan food you don’t look for it a butchers shop.

The price drop on the 256GB Asiair ($299) is starting to show how growth of the market drives down price.

Kids haven’t changed. What’s new is that they’ve seen much clearer brighter pictures of anything that you can show them.
Everyone gets excited the first time they see the rings of Saturn or the moons of Jupiter in an eyepiece. After 10 minutes most of them are done. It was true when we were kids. Newton probably saw it too.

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that an astrophotography setup with ASIAIR running on a tablet will get you a pretty good galaxy or nebula pictures in three minutes. Even in bortle 8 skies. If one of the kids gets to pick an object and tell the telescope to go-to. It’s exciting. Is it pointing where they were expecting? Three minutes later there is a quite good image on the screen. It’s not an eyepiece, but it’s the next best thing.
If they want a picture to share with their friends, that’s easy.
If you have someone who is really interested, you can put in a diffraction grating and use rspec software to instantly show them the light spectrum of a star or planet. Most kids and their parents have absolutely no idea how we know so much about distant regions. This gives you a chance to tell them.

BTW, astronomy is absolutely not dying. It’s seeing a resurgence because of all of this new technology. The stuff is flying off the shelves. The $500 Seestar is selling out all over the world. The $2000 ZWO AM5 mounts are selling by the truckloads. Our job, as old-timers, is to make sure that they realize that you can do real science and learn how the universe works. Some will just want to make pretty pictures. Gotta admire that too.

[csrlice12]

I donno....I've seen pics of many of of us dressed in our viewing finest.....That'd probably make me run away too.

[skpark]

My first real connection with astronomy came when I was around 10 years old when at a week long religious retreat. It was during the mid 80s in the Sierra Nevada mountains. I had no background in astronomy and no one ever showed me that astronomy was even a thing one could do. My family was deeply religious and I always felt disconnected from it because no matter how hard I tried I could never believe. I snuck out every night to lay on a grass field looking up at the night sky like I never seen, there were so many stars it was overwhelming and it truly felt like i could reach out and grab them. Although, the spread of light pollution has diminished the number of stars i now see i still feel that connection whenever i look up and see the night sky. I have 3 young children, one is 3 years older than i was when i discovered astronomy. I have brought them out countless times to try to have them see what i see but i can tell they don’t have that connection yet, maybe they will later, or maybe they never will. That’s ok with me. I’m guessing many of the elders in our hobby grew up when space really was a new frontier, with the country and the world glued to their televisions to see humans walking on the Moon. This generation’s new frontier is in biotechnology, artificial intelligence, rapid advances in so many fields. Yes, some will find a deep passion with the night sky but sadly i think with the spread of global light pollution we might one day lose that first kindle of interest and love of the night sky one has by just looking up with one’s eyes.

Edited by skpark, 09 June 2024 - 07:39 PM.

[Eduardastro]

Young (24 yo) amateur astronomer here. I live in one of the most light polluted countries in the world (the Netherlands) but that did not prevent me from getting into the astronomy hobby when I was seven. I think it started with an astronomy handbook, unfortunately I don’t remember the title or the author. It was written in English, which I did not understand at the time but I loved the pictures (it had an image of the Crab Nebula on the cover). My dad, who is an engineer and amateur radio operator, very much encouraged me in my newly found interest. My first telescope was a dirt cheap 2 inch refractor from the local supermarket, just barely good enough to view the rings of Saturn and keep me interested. I joined the local astronomy club when I was 10, it is a very small club with only 40 members but once a month they organize workshops for their younger members. This was mostly astronomy theory, but if the weather permitted one of the club members let us use their private observatory and taught us how to do solar observation and imaging, planetary imaging, etc. These sessions were very valuable for me to really get started in the hobby. Back when I attended those workshops there were between four and nine other young members, currently there are only three. Our club has a very hard time attracting new members, especially among the young and middle aged demographics. I don’t think this is from a lack of interest in astronomy, since our outreach events always attract loads of visitors of all ages.

I think one of the main reasons is that most astronomy interested folks feel like they do not need a mentor at a club to learn astrophotography, or visual observing or any other astronomy related skills when all of the information can be found online. At university I occasionally meet other students who are into astronomy (often astrophotography) but they generally prefer to enjoy the hobby on their own instead of joining a club or observing together with others. I also had many requests from friends who just have a casual interest in astronomy to organize a stargazing session, but their busy agendas combined with the rarity of clear skies here made it very difficult to organize such events.

Something else I have seen several times is that people buy a (big) telescope and then lose interest as they get tired of having to lug it to the backyard or drive to a “dark” site (which we do not really have here), or they simply get lost in how to set up and use their equipment. Yes, all the info you need to get started is at your fingertips but that can also be overwhelming and frustrating for a complete beginner. Maybe those robotic small telescopes significantly lower te barrier to entry in this regard.

To summarize my long, rambling post: I think there are plenty of young amateurs astronomers, maybe even more than ever before, despite growing light pollution. But from my own limited experience I get the impression that most like to do astronomy on their own and do not join clubs or star parties for various reasons. If everyone is just enjoying the night sky from their own backyard, you rarely meet each other and get the false impression that there are very few people who share your interest in astronomy.

[justfred]

There’s still plenty of future amateur astronomers out there - young and old. The fact remains that most folks still have never looked up. The ones who are interested will get hooked the same way we did: one good look at the Moon or Saturn.

 

At least five planets are going to be well positioned later this year for viewing. A few outreach events 7 days after a New Moon ( under bright skies or dark) will go a long way to furthering the hobby. And they will be fun :-)

 

Fred

[revans]

Not totally sure, but I think chances of success are more likely if you give some assistance to someone already drawn to the hobby by natural inclination than trying to interest a random person in the hobby.  Over the course of many years, I've donated a few old scopes to younger adults who showed an interest in science.... but in none of those instances did any of them pursue amateur astronomy as a hobby.  

 

I think maybe supporting a local planetarium or astronomy club is the best way to encourage the next generation of amateurs in the hobby at least locally.  And any astronomy videos uploaded to Youtube or contributions to discussions on amateur astronomy sites probably helps as well because people interested in the hobby will probably seek out this material and benefit from it.

 

Rick

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

It's very important to pass the message that Astronomy is not exclusive of rich people.

 

You don't need 20000 USD in gear and a manor in Aspen to enjoy the sky.

Same as you don't need 3 weeks in a Maldives 5* all-inclusive to enjoy the sea.

[fallenstarseven]

like dnrmilspec below, at our club’s outreach I *always* let the kids drive, both my ten inch Dob and my EVScope2.  They decide what we are going to look at next from suggestions I toss out, they use the controllers to pick the target and command the scope to go to.  With the Dob they do final alignment and focus and once object is in view I show them how to change to an optimal eyepiece and refocus.  For the EVscope they fine tune object centering, initiate stacking and then tune the exposure and background.  
 

When I’m setting up if a kid is around they help me with all of it.

 

I make a bug deal out of it, they get a round of applause and they use my copy of Turn Left at Orion or another source to learn about the object and tell about it.

 

 

Totally agree with NAPP.  I would add a few things.

 

I deal with a lot of college age and younger folks and they want to actually do stuff.  They want to touch it and they want to operate it.  Go to many public outreach events and young people are told to not touch, be careful, and generally talked down to.  So they don't like it.  Who would?

 

At one outreach event I watched a young lady around 10-11 years old go from scope to scope only to be told, "we are just setting up".  So when she got to my scope I asked her if she wanted to help me set up.  She said she did not know how so I told her I would teach her.  And I walked her through setting up and aligning my 6" refractor and EQ-6 mount.  In the process we discussed how to balance the scope, what the different kinds of scopes she could see around her were and how to roughly polar align the scope.  Then I handed her the had controller and talked her through actually aligning the scope and going to the first object.  Her mom just

stood back in wonder to see her daughter do this with the "big expensive scope".  I mean really folks, how hard is it?  Not vary.  What could she hurt?  Not a thing.  What could she gain?  A lifetime of wonder and a mainline dose of science.  She made the loop of the other scopes then came back to mine.  I told her to listen to what we were saying about the  object we were viewing,  so she could do it in the future.  Then, after about an hour, I handed her the controller again, looked at the line at my scope and told her to take over while I was "looking for a friend".  Which she did. Then I went out of sight and kept an eye on her.  (Mom was with her too.)

[AstroVPK]

<p>

I'm only 27, so I'm definitely one of the younger people in the hobby. And honestly, it's not easy getting involved.

I got a minor in astronomy in college along with my engineering degree, so it's not like I lack interest or that I only have surface level knowledge. I've spent months learning to use professional observatory telescopes and process astronomical data. And I wasn't the only one in my classes either. There are LOTS of young people interested in astronomy. Lots of people taking classes and getting degrees all the way up to the PhD level. There is no shortage of interest or talent. The hobby is a different story.

Personally, I'm having a hard time continuing in the hobby. I love astronomy, but every time I go to a club meeting I'm the only 20-something there. There's an hour-long presentation which is often interesting, but not a whole lot of socializing which makes it difficult for anyone who doesn't already know everybody else. Most star parties are at a dark sky site an hour away that's not very practical for me to get to. The standard path for getting involved on your own with a Dob and a star chart doesn't work so well living in an apartment in a light-polluted area, with nowhere nearby to even take a telescope since all the public parks close at sunset and I don't have a backyard. And then online here I often feel alienated with the "kids these days" kinds of discussions. It's just not easy picking up a hobby when you feel so alone and left out.

A few ideas I've had:

• Collaborate with student-run astronomy clubs at nearby universities. There's a group of young people who already have the knowledge and interest, and having those young people around will attract the other young people.
• Have a modern-looking website or social media page. I've seen some websites that look ancient and make me wonder if the club has even been active in the last 20 years. Depending on your area, see if young people are using Meetup to find hobby groups to participate in
• Have events that branch out from normal meetings and star parties. Solstice parties or eclipse festivals with food, drink, music, etc. A booth at a local renaissance fair teaching about medieval astronomy. Daytime star parties with solar telescopes in public places. Or occasional service projects in the community. Provide real opportunities for people to get to know each other beyond a monthly talk about astronomy.
• Embrace new technology, whether that be by posting on TikTok and YouTube or playing around with robotic telescopes and sharing photos on Instagram. Don't criticize people for liking photography or robots just because it's not the same as what visual observers have been doing for decades.
• Not every star party has to be at a dark site. If you can get some agreement with the local authorities to let you use the public parks after dark, you can show people the moon and planets at a convenient location. Or see if you can host events after hours at the library parking lot or something. But a lot of people can't drive an hour or more to the club's ideal spot for a star party, especially if they're just getting started
• Be conscious of the times you schedule events. Living in Florida there's a lot of things people plan that only work if you're retired and don't have a full-time job... I'm not going to stay at a meeting or star party until 10 or 11 pm on a Wednesday, since I have to go to work in the morning. Especially if I had to drive an hour to get there.

You must be on the East Coast. Here on the West Coast, we don't have light pollution, so even the old geezers go out and observe. My suggestion: take a flight out to Cali and attend GSSP (https://goldenstates...m-the-director/) - you'll probably have an amazing time...

[jakabasej8]

I donno....I've seen pics of many of of us dressed in our viewing finest..... https://piktid.com/ai-face-generator/That'd probably make me run away too.

Haha, I totally get what you mean!