238 replies to this topic

[Starman1]

I have to disagree with having vehicles driving among the scopes.  Unfortunately, we have vehicles driving among the scopes at our major monthly outreach because we set up in a park parking lot.  The lot does not lend itself to redirecting the cars.  It’s disruptive to folks looking through the scopes and there is a certain degree of danger in the dark as we have to make sure kids are out of the way.  It would be much better to not have to deal with this but we are are stuck with it.

I recently went to a dark site parking lot on a new moon night, but forgot it was the peak of the Perseid meteor shower.

Instead of the usual 20 0r 25 people there, there were 300-400, and there were white headlights in and out of the parking lot every 15 seconds from sunset to 1:30am.

It was a complete zoom.  I went back several days later and had a great night of observing.

 

What gets me is the number of people who pull in to a parking place and then take 10 minutes to turn off their lights.

Or take 10 minutes to drive out of the lot once they start moving.  Odd.

[Alex Swartzinski]

This topic seems to come up fairly frequently, and it's definitely an important one to consider. 

 

From an anecdotal perspective, I see quite a few younger people my age interested in visual and imaging. I'm a part of an astronomy club with over 200 members, and I'm not the youngest at 21. At my university, there is also an astronomy group that has around 5-15 people depending on the semester/year. 

 

Looking at Reddit (not the biggest fan personally) but a website that people my age tend to frequent, there's a growing astronomy group of young people who are building dobs and observing. Many CN topics end up posted as comments there. 

 

What does all of this suggest? There are young people out there doing this hobby, but they aren't necessarily getting involved in the same way that older generations are. For example, there are far more CNers who are established in a career or retired than younger people. On Reddit/telescopes, I would imagine the demographics are switched. 

 

Our club is great with all age groups. We have observing nights both open to the public and for members only. Everyone who has been there for decades has been wonderful for younger members such as myself. But the meeting nights (I rarely attend) definitely seem a little more closed off to younger members. When I went, most people were over 50 and everyone talked to their groups. I could see how this might intimidate some younger members, but it's obviously not intentional. I also think younger people would rather be in the field than in a classroom where they have recently spent some time, but that's just speaking for myself. 

 

The takeaways from this rambling?

 

Astronomy, especially observing, is a niche hobby. It's always been that way and it always will be. Despite this fact, there are still younger observers and imagers all around the world. Attracting them to a club involves making the club seem less like a "good old boys" situation where it's hard to break into. I'm not saying that OP's club is this way, but I've heard stories of people feeling this way on CN before. You also have to reach young people in mediums that they are more likely to frequent. This might be local city Reddit pages or through schools. 

Edited by Alex Swartzinski, 29 August 2023 - 07:11 PM.

[brightsky]

Well, what we do is what nerds do alone or in small groups at night, so any promotion we might devise to increase participation by young people in a nighttime hobby that requires a fairly long attention span and special equipment might best be conducted with conservative expectations regarding long-term benefits.  We can be continue to be friendly, helpful, accepting of new ideas, and recruit those who take a continued interest.  It may happen that we gradually change or evolve from analog to digital, from eyepiece to computer screen, from visual to EEA to AP, but I am not yet sure that these changes will bring in more young people to the dark parking lot at night with their lights off.  It may be that someday we will have our daily or weekly ten minutes controlling the James-Webb with our own computer in the comfort of our own living room while those nerds are out there are trying to find their dropped eyepiece covers in the dark.  Yes, old story, some of us will still be out there, in ever decreasing but sometimes transiently accumulating numbers, old and young, nerding around in the night. Turn off your lights please and have a look at this.        Who's next?        

[Starman1]

When I talk to my observing buddies, they were attracted to the hobby by themselves.  They had an interest all on their own and then dove into the hobby by reading the monthlies and 

participating in the hobby.

 

I came to the hobby the same way.  I knew no one else interested, and until several years later, I though no one else in my city had any interest.

 

I think there are reasons why we got involved in the hobby, but it was unlikely someone else sharing his passion and encouraging us to join a club or go to club outings.

 

So my question is, why aren't there young people, all on their own, just becoming involved in the hobby because it's something they want to do?

 

And the answer could be as simple as the space race that spurred us on as kids, or the first landings on the Moon and other planets, how ubiquitous science fiction writing was, or simply the fact that we had much darker skies

than people do now. Or maybe more math, chemistry, and physics in the curricula of most schools.  

 

I'm sure that there are many young "armchair astronomers" who follow the online astronomy press, but who do not personally participate in the hobby, whether visual or AP.

It was easy for me to get into it because I could afford a telescope and had dark skies.

I think the wall to climb is a lot higher for the youth of today.  

[payner]

 

I came to the hobby the same way.  I knew no one else interested, and until several years later, I though no one else in my city had any interest.

This is exactly how I came into the hobby. A kid of about seven who would sit in the astronomy section (small as it was) at school and leaf through and read those captivating books. If anything I was "discouraged" as classmates had no interest and thought it "strange." It's been a delight and a great thought-provoking  activity for me all along.

[bunyon]

I was definitely interested in the night sky but didn’t even know a telescope could be had by an individual at home until a public observation at a local college observatory. From there I mostly kept to myself. But a little nudge was important. A website or a book could probably do as well.

[Napp]

When I talk to my observing buddies, they were attracted to the hobby by themselves.  They had an interest all on their own and then dove into the hobby by reading the monthlies and 

participating in the hobby.

 

I came to the hobby the same way.  I knew no one else interested, and until several years later, I though no one else in my city had any interest.

 

I think there are reasons why we got involved in the hobby, but it was unlikely someone else sharing his passion and encouraging us to join a club or go to club outings.

 

So my question is, why aren't there young people, all on their own, just becoming involved in the hobby because it's something they want to do?

 

And the answer could be as simple as the space race that spurred us on as kids, or the first landings on the Moon and other planets, how ubiquitous science fiction writing was, or simply the fact that we had much darker skies

than people do now. Or maybe more math, chemistry, and physics in the curricula of most schools.  

 

I'm sure that there are many young "armchair astronomers" who follow the online astronomy press, but who do not personally participate in the hobby, whether visual or AP.

It was easy for me to get into it because I could afford a telescope and had dark skies.

I think the wall to climb is a lot higher for the youth of today.  

I agree with you, Don.  I came to the hobby because of the space race and the incredible burst of science fiction creativity.  The folks coming into the hobby today are coming into the hobby for their own reasons.  The Hubble and now Webb space telescopes and SpaceX's Starship are acting as triggers.  I think the next moon landings and certainly the future Mars missions will rekindle some of the excitement we all experienced as kids.  I don't see my club's efforts creating an interest in folks.  I see it as offering help in doing something with an interest that was already sparked.  I meet lots of folks interested but know little about telescopes and equipment and have no idea what or how to do anything with it.  And I agree the climb into the hobby is a lot higher now. 

 

I think the future success of clubs depends on showing newbies of all ages what can be done and helping them do it.  Most people know they can see the moon and the planets to some degree through a telescope.  Many have no clue they can see star clusters, nebulae and galaxies.  They may know the rings of Saturn can be seen but don't have a clue they can see moons around it.  Or they are asking how to get into astrophotography.  One of the recurring questions on Cloudy Nights is "What telescope should I buy?".  This question gets asked many times more in various Facebook groups with picures of various hobby killers on Amazon.  Watching Youtube videos is one way to get into the hobby but nothing beats getting hands on help from a group of folks who have already tackled the challenges they are going to run into.

 

The challenge is to find those folks of all ages who have the spark and get them to give us a chance.  We have to find ways to reach them, attract them and create welcoming experiences.  For example, my club does a lot of outreach.  We invite people to bring their telescopes for help.  We conduct how to sessions.  We have loaner scopes.  We take advantage of big events like eclipses to do joint events with local colleges where the public can see the events.  We are working with local libraries to educate the public about the coming annular and total eclipses which will be partial here.  We are having success with most events though a few have not been as successful.  However, we have to try various avenues to find out what does work. And of course we can't be talking down to them or treating them as lesser than us.  We have some members who are very good at working with new folks.  Other members need to learn from them or if they aren't comfortable with working with newbies then they need to walk the newbies over and introduce them to the folks who are good at it.

 

We do get parents who have detected an interest in their child.  Sometimes we get parents looking to get their kid interested in something worthwhile.  An example of a success story is a member of about 14 and his mother who joined about two years ago.  They started with a loaner DOB before a club member helped him and his mother find a used 10 inch DOB at a very good price.  He was very shy but we encouraged him to do outreach with us.  He has become a valuable ambassador for the club usually being the first to volunteer to do outreach at schools.  

[Alex Swartzinski]

When I talk to my observing buddies, they were attracted to the hobby by themselves. They had an interest all on their own and then dove into the hobby by reading the monthlies and
participating in the hobby.

I think there are reasons why we got involved in the hobby, but it was unlikely someone else sharing his passion and encouraging us to join a club or go to club outings.

So my question is, why aren't there young people, all on their own, just becoming involved in the hobby because it's something they want to do?

And the answer could be as simple as the space race that spurred us on as kids, or the first landings on the Moon and other planets, how ubiquitous science fiction writing was, or simply the fact that we had much darker skies
than people do now. Or maybe more math, chemistry, and physics in the curricula of most schools.

I'm sure that there are many young "armchair astronomers" who follow the online astronomy press, but who do not personally participate in the hobby, whether visual or AP.
It was easy for me to get into it because I could afford a telescope and had dark skies.
I think the wall to climb is a lot higher for the youth of today.

I share your path of getting interested in astronomy by myself before experiencing any astronomy club. For this discovery path, I don't think it's a stretch to say that it's easier than ever to learn about amateur astronomy and observing due to the internet.

But I'm not sure about the wall being harder today. Astronomy equipment has gotten quite a bit more expensive post covid, but there's still lots of affordable equipment available, even if some of them can be hobby killers. I started with a Powerseeker bird Jones and it continued my interest. Dark skies are definitely getting harder to experience, but I'm not sure these are necessary to capture someone's attention. A simple lunar or planetary view combined with a broader astronomy interest should do the trick. There have always been challenges to accessing this niche activity, but good eyepieces are more affordable than ever, and commercial dobs last for a long time and can be purchased for reasonable deals. A recent high school graduate just bought a used 12" GSO dob in the club. 12" scopes used to be toys reserved for wealthier observers only not too long ago.

It would be very interesting to see an age range on CN, but I suspect the average is somewhere between 40-58. R/telescopes has over 120,000 members. I bet the median age is late 20s with many under 18. I think there are plenty of younger people interested, they just don't hang out here or at club meetings full of older members.

Is this number more or less than in previous decades? Who knows, but I think the future of observing/imaging will be just fine.

Edited by Alex Swartzinski, 29 August 2023 - 09:58 PM.

[largefather]

So my question is, why aren't there young people, all on their own, just becoming involved in the hobby because it's something they want to do?

I understand your perspective, but you're presuming that the answer is that they aren't. It's equally likely that the answer is that the same number of people are interested in space and astronomy but are not participating in the hobby in a way which is visible or "social" in the way that older observers are.

I will fully admit that there is a club in town that I could attend but I have no desire to do so. They don't currently provide anything of value I can't get elsewhere, often better or more conveniently.

I personally think that what is dying isn't amateur astronomy but instead just the clubs that once were instrumental. It's not a phenomenon unique to astronomy either. That's just my 2¢ though.

Edited by largefather, 29 August 2023 - 09:40 PM.

[star acres]

A lot of municipalities have already spoken for astronomy. They are on the wrong side. Park closes at dusk. Big lights on stalks left on at night. Taxpayers almost pay for grass growing after dark. We should keep our viewing dark but flash the telescopes around at day.

[Starman1]

I understand your perspective, but you're presuming that the answer is that they aren't. It's equally likely that the answer is that the same number of people are interested in space and astronomy but are not participating in the hobby in a way which is visible or "social" in the way that older observers are.

I will fully admit that there is a club in town that I could attend but I have no desire to do so. They don't currently provide anything of value I can't get elsewhere, often better or more conveniently.

I personally think that what is dying isn't amateur astronomy but instead just the clubs that once were instrumental. It's not a phenomenon unique to astronomy either. That's just my 2¢ though.

Though I already had been observing for several years, in my mid 20s I discovered a modestly close dark sky site and have frequented it ever since.

Most people I meet there are loners but seeing someone every month for years breeds familiarity and friendship.

When I started going there, I was in my mid 20s, and so were a lot of other observers and APers there.

Now, nearly all of the much much smaller group are retired or old enough to retire, and I see very very few younger people with telescopes.

Yes, I see one or two from time to time, but the number of people there is barely 1/10 what it was in 1990.

 

I'd like to think there is a vast sea of younger people observing at home, but I fear that is not the case.

The argument has long been made that the people pursuing astronomy are older because it is they who have the time and money.

But there were scores of 20 and 30-something people there with telescopes back in the '80s and '90s, and now there are a lot fewer people and

only an occasional 20 or 30-something observer.

 

I was never a member of a club, and just went there as an amateur looking for dark skies.  There are other sites with dark skies at much greater distances, but I've been there in the last few years and the numbers of astronomers

I see there has diminished to nearly zero.  And I live in a county with 10.6 million people.

 

To be fair, the Perseid meteor shower was heavily advertised and the crowd on that Saturday night was almost wall-to-wall people.  A crowd I hadn't seen since the '90s.

It will be interesting to see if some of those people come back in future months with telescopes.

Edited by Starman1, 30 August 2023 - 01:13 AM.

[Bill Weir]

Do this or something similar. https://youtu.be/-_v...GbnjdES1pKc4UIl

I play the long game. I regularly set up in random places day or night and show what I can. I don’t expect instant results or even expect them to join my club. I’m just putting it out there. I’m just planting a lot of seeds. Eventually some might grow. I’ve found in doing this I’ve met many who practice the hobby in my community and I don’t know it. Not everyone needs a club whether the in person kind or online. A couple of weeks ago our club held a weekend star party and I was surprised at the number of young people who showed up with their own gear. Many were fairly experienced but they just didn’t belong to the club. 

 

While it’s true that the cost of equipment has never been cheaper, to many young people who are working multiple jobs just to keep their heads above water it’s a luxury they just can’t afford right now. While I have some quite nice equipment now it wasn’t until well into my late 30s that I could afford a simple 6” dob what with kids, mortgage etc. 

 

Bill

[3C286]

It's not just Amateur Astronomy which is struggling to attract young enthusiasts - it may be a wider pattern...

 

I'm a member of the local dinghy sailing club. Just like astronomy, dinghy sailing became massive in the 1960s and 1970s when plywood and then GRP made light-weight dinghies affordable. Just like amateur astronomers of the time, many people made dinghies out of plywood kits (or from scratch) in the 1960s. There's been a slow decline since then but it's probably stabilised.

 

A lot of kids do the sailing courses offered by the club; some keen ones stay on to do the race training and the race circuits. There's a bit of a gap in membership in the ages of 18-40. The members who sail in the club races are usually youth and middle-aged. Some people who sailed as kids do come back later in life. The sailing courses for kids and the youth training programme are important long-term investments in our sport that will keep it going in the future. Our club also rents out boats to members, which lowers the bar for people to join the club and go out sailing for fun or take part in our club races. Maybe there are some analogies that can be draw for astronomy clubs there?

 

Back to astronomy...

 

I was looking at the US population pyramid in 1965 (which I assume is the beginning of the heyday of amateur astronomy) and now (2023). Back in 1965, there was a big bulge of under 20s (the famous Baby Boomers) and a smaller bulge of 35-50 year olds. This is totally speculative (and people who were around then should correct me) but was it these generations that took up astronomy back then? The population pyramid today has fewer kids (as a proportion) but many more older people -- the generation who took up astronomy back in the heyday. I guess changing demographics might be part of the explanation of why the average age of amateur astronomers is higher today but that's not a bad thing. It's good to have all of you oldies with decades of experience guiding us not-so-young newbies!

 

 

Tak

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

Most young amateurs tend to have modest budgets; they're struggling with low-pay jobs, paying rent, school fees, even starting a family.

We should refrain from passing "astronomy is for the wealthy ones" messages.

 

You don't need 8000$ to start AP.

Your first telescope doesn't have to be a 6" Takahashi or a 20" Obsession, you can start much smaller than that.

First binoculars don't need to cost you 5000$.

There's no need to buy everything brand new, you can buy second-hand, share with someone else or even use it for free (library telescopes on loan).

And so on...

Edited by Sebastian_Sajaroff, 30 August 2023 - 08:30 AM.

[AstroVPK]

I agree that people in general need to be able to adjust the telescope for themselves. We had a daytime outreach at our library viewing sunspots. We showed people how to use the telescopes.

Montage 1 copy.jpg

However, at the big city night time outreach, when I showed people how to focus the view, I heard twice that they had been warned not to touch the telescope.

I do understand that in general and with young children in partcular, there is the impulse to grab the eyepiece and bring it to your eye. But that is the responsibility of the docent to talk to your guests and explain things.


Thanks, that's great going, dnrmilspec.

Actually, you know, there is the same impulse the first time someone mounts a horse. They want to grab the pommel and have to learn to hold the reins with one hand.

The red dots work fine. It may just be a matter of local culture. Here in Texas, it is pretty easy to tell people that it works just like it does on a gun. I have used a couple of telescopes with Telrads on them. They are fine, too, but I never understood all the raving. It's just another finder. In fact, I bought two of these from Astronomics (just another display with dot, crosshairs, and target circle):

Astro-Tech Multiple Reticle.png

Thanks (and Clear Skies),
MIke M.

Here in CA, I tell people how they work and people get it, but the dot is hard to see compared to the bullseye of the Telrad and the build quality is slipshod. Telrads are inexpensive and just work - why not just use them instead of reinventing the wheel?

[gnowellsct]

There's no consensus.  I think it would be much easier to get young people started west of the Mississippi where the skies are drier and clear nights more frequent.  Astronomy is Frustrationville here.  It's not just a question of being able to rush your gear outside.  I live in a forest.  If I rush my gear outside I see trees.  I can occasionally find some holes, saw the "green comet" last February from the driveway, but by and large gear has to be packed and taken to a site that won't work against the activity.   There are housing developments where the trees have not reached maturity, kids could take a scope out and bring it in again with a good deal more success.

 

Views of Jupiter/Saturn/Moon are easier to pull off.  Our club once attended the Philadelphia Orchestra's performance of Gustav Holtz's "The Planets" up in Saratoga Springs and the sky was clear and Jupiter was out and it all went off, surprisingly, without a hitch.

 

My son and one of his best friends have been coming with me to the remote site for years.  When they were around ten they were mostly interested in running around in the dark.  As they got older they would spend more time viewing.  

 

Finally I looked at the two of them and realized they were in their junior year as engineering majors and I thought: my gawd, these punks are engineers!  So I gave them a TPOD-Discmount, my 5" apo (astro-physics no less) and some eyepieces and said, "here, use this to look at whatever you want, come ask me for help if you need it, and try to pretend to that you're engineers handling very expensive equipment."  THAT got their interest.  They've done it several times now.

 

Also interestingly my son got more interested in his childhood star blast which he largely ignored growing up.  We got him some kind of alt-az mount that with a light tripod that gets it up to chest height (which is infinitely more comfortable than on the ground viewing) and he has sometimes used that without using the refractor, as he has realized it's pretty capable and it's his and the more he gets to know it the more he'll know what it can do.  He actually hosted an "eclipse party" at his school, I guess last year, where he had ten or fifteen people show up in the middle of the night.  

 

I think gaming will be his #1 recreation but it's nice to see him play with some telescopes.  One thing for sure, in spite of being an engineer, he is not inclined to the complex German equatorial setups that catch my fancy.  He likes alt-az arrangements because of the ease of setup.  Myself, from the age off 8, I was setting up equatorials and it feels more normal to me.

 

Greg N

[mountain monk]

Nice, Greg. Parents haven't been mentioned much here, but I was interested in astronomy as a child because my father was interested. Binoculars, only. He introduced me to the major northern constellations and bright stars. i carried that interest through all of my world travels but only came to scopes much, much later. Nonetheless, my dad was the initial cause.

 

Dark skies.

 

Jack

[Avgvstvs]

Try some outreach with public viewing sessions. Astro-photography is a big thing with newbies. Perhaps include some images with your outreach. Or how about an introductory course for beginners at the clubhouse, followed by some real observations. Ads in the local publications etc. Astronomy sells itself if we make it accesable to everyone and a bit of marketing

[Phil Cowell]

Most western countries are in population decline. Several such as Japan are having serious problems.So it fits the demographics. Way to many people for the rock so it’s a good thing.

 

 

It's not just Amateur Astronomy which is struggling to attract young enthusiasts - it may be a wider pattern...

 

I'm a member of the local dinghy sailing club. Just like astronomy, dinghy sailing became massive in the 1960s and 1970s when plywood and then GRP made light-weight dinghies affordable. Just like amateur astronomers of the time, many people made dinghies out of plywood kits (or from scratch) in the 1960s. There's been a slow decline since then but it's probably stabilised.

 

A lot of kids do the sailing courses offered by the club; some keen ones stay on to do the race training and the race circuits. There's a bit of a gap in membership in the ages of 18-40. The members who sail in the club races are usually youth and middle-aged. Some people who sailed as kids do come back later in life. The sailing courses for kids and the youth training programme are important long-term investments in our sport that will keep it going in the future. Our club also rents out boats to members, which lowers the bar for people to join the club and go out sailing for fun or take part in our club races. Maybe there are some analogies that can be draw for astronomy clubs there?

 

Back to astronomy...

 

I was looking at the US population pyramid in 1965 (which I assume is the beginning of the heyday of amateur astronomy) and now (2023). Back in 1965, there was a big bulge of under 20s (the famous Baby Boomers) and a smaller bulge of 35-50 year olds. This is totally speculative (and people who were around then should correct me) but was it these generations that took up astronomy back then? The population pyramid today has fewer kids (as a proportion) but many more older people -- the generation who took up astronomy back in the heyday. I guess changing demographics might be part of the explanation of why the average age of amateur astronomers is higher today but that's not a bad thing. It's good to have all of you oldies with decades of experience guiding us not-so-young newbies!

 

 

 

Tak

 

[jcj380]

It's not just Amateur Astronomy which is struggling to attract young enthusiasts - it may be a wider pattern...

(Some) model railroaders have been crying about that for years - "We're old, younger people aren't interested, we're all gonna die." 

 

I think that might be mainly a result of where a person is in life / how much disposable income they have.  And most higher levels of disposable income are among older age groups - house might be paid for, no diapers or college tuition, don't have to drop kilobucks on traveling soccer because you just know your kid is going get a scholarship, and so on.

 

Love them or hate them, I think affordable roboscopes might be the technology that brings a lot more (younger) people into the hobby.  

[dnrmilspec]

Two minor points.

 

Adopting a hobby is a personal opinion.  Just a choice.  Those of us who do visual OR astrophotography get joy from it.  Naturally we want others to have this joy.  We want to share because WE think it is valuable.  Clearly it is not something that everyone or even most people would care to share.  The only shame is when someone who might get a lifetime of enjoyment from astronomy is never exposed to it.  Or worse, is exposed to it by meeting a jerk or a popinjay at a star party, and is discouraged by the event.  I would add my favorite caution at this point and mention the people who, under the guise of offering "expert" advice, discourage someone's first telescope purchase.  (I'm looking at your APO fanatics and SCT deniers and remind you that the overwhelming majority of us started and were delighted by pretty modest if not downright cheap scopes.)

 

The second is that the "success" of a hobby is not determined by the number of people who do it.  That is just a marketing decision on the part of those who might choose to cash in on the hobby.  The hobby did just fine when about the only way to get a decent telescope was to make it.  We current hobbyists benefit from lower prices and innovation facilitated by a larger and therefor more profitable market but that is of little concern to those considering the hobby.

 

Some of us look for validation of the value of our hobby by the participation of others.  And we enjoy the camaraderie of others with like interests.  I have a friend who is totally into model railroading.  When I was a kid I wanted an electric train as did all kids in the era of the 1950's but today I cannot imagine a more boring hobby.  But I understand my friend's interest and his dedication to that hobby is in no way diminished by my lack of interest.  Sometimes when I have a scope in the front yard people walking by stop for a look.  Others walk by with not a glance. 

 

All we can do is plant good seeds.  Make sure our clubs and personal outreach is fun, kind and aimed at the enjoyment of others; not dedicated to personally showing off our scopes.  Two old-timers standing by the latest Wiz-Bang 150 Flourite APO Quintuplet trying to split the closest double is not outreach.  What it is to the other attendees of the star party is a hobby killer.

[bunyon]

I would like to like that post several times.

[kasprowy]

I was never a member of a club, and just went there as an amateur looking for dark skies.  There are other sites with dark skies at much greater distances, but I've been there in the last few years and the numbers of astronomers

I see there has diminished to nearly zero.  And I live in a county with 10.6 million people.

 

Cook County has over 5 million people, and one of it's redeeming qualities is the relatively large amount of Forest Preserves. The Palos Preserves have even been designated an "Urban Night Sky Place" by the International Dark Sky Association. But then you read into it and come across this blurb:

 

"Locations in the Palos Preserves close by sunset ..."

 

You literally can only utilize the place if you happen upon one of the few times per year when they have a viewing event and the weather isn't bad. There is no incentive whatsoever for new blood to get into this hobby other than an inherent, solo interest in it. Agree, most of us were around during the Space Race, which likely got us going. You could literally see things with your own eyes that looked as good as it could get for that era. Look at the photos in Burnham's or other publications of the time. So unless you are fine with just looking (as I am) or are willing to fork out relatively large sums of money (which younger people don't typically have) for AP gear, there's not really a drive for young people to get into it. I think amateur astronomy is a victim of its own technology, to some extent. There will always be people, young and old, who enjoy looking up at the sky, but most of us live where the skies aren't that great, and investing in the time and equipment to overcome that seems more so like work than enjoyment to the majority of people.

Edited by kasprowy, 31 August 2023 - 12:37 PM.

[rgk901]

this... no Forest preserve stays open in Illinois after sunset, it sucks and I drive to Wisconsin where they close at a more reasonable 11pm... great for late fall / winter

as for young people..based on my kids...it won't be easy

Edited by rgk901, 31 August 2023 - 01:22 PM.

[star acres]

Where I live, there are no clubs, no messages, no budget restraints. It's not such a wealthy town and village, then look again. What people pay for needless pickup trucks, scratch off gambling, gas, camping trailers, motorcycles, and those ugly heavy noisy mufflers. No trains. No balsa models. No mountain bikes. It's a region of know - nothing's spending their last cent on cable TV.

Edited by star acres, 31 August 2023 - 04:32 PM.