238 replies to this topic

[JoeFaz]

To start I'm 33 years old, I believe I fall under the "young" category here and that is certainly the case when I'm at my local astronomy club. I believe my wife and I are the only members under 50 besides one of the college's professors who's probably around that age.

 

I had a conversation with my wife the other day that I think might help shine some light. We just bought our first house several months ago. She is an engineer for a major US defense contractor and I make only slightly less than she does. When the "middle class" was more of a thing, we would have been upper middle class. When my parents bought their first home (nearly 40 years ago) my father worked on a factory floor at Kodak and my mother behind the customer service desk at Walmart. The middle class very much existed then and they were certainly not "upper" middle class. That first house was notably bigger than our current house, and was in a much more "expensive" city. The point being, I think there is a significant lack of understanding in both the older generations and the more affluent segments of society just how much younger (and truly working class) people are being squeezed financially today. From experience, inevitably, at least someone will find themselves offended by that comment. The best I can do is honestly say it isn't personal or meant to be judgmental.

 

We live in a fairly poor area. Amateur astronomy is not a cheap hobby by most people's standards. I mean no disrespect, but anyone who's claimed otherwise on here is a little out-of-touch. Our household income is 3-4x the average in our county, and still it was difficult enough to convince my wife to let me buy my telescope (which is just a 6" dob) and binoculars, and not because she's "cheap." It sounds like many of the members here might be shocked if they knew the number of people my age or younger in this area that could afford a telescope that is high enough quality to be truly usable (I don't know the actual number, of course). The number would be higher for who could afford a decent pair of binoculars, but you'd wind up at another equally low number considering many people are simply uninterested in binocular astronomy. The point is that we have no young people in our club because I'm not entirely sure there are any other young people in the area with both an interest and the financial ability to participate in the hobby.

 

If you were in a more affluent area, like a major city, you would certainly have a larger group of young people that could afford to participate, but how many of them would you ultimately lose to the heavily light-polluted skies in those areas.

 

The last time I was out observing with my wife, I made a comment to the affect of "we really are lucky to be out here, most people either can't see much of anything where they live or don't have the money to spend on a telescope."

 

Sorry for the long post, and for just my second post on here nonetheless, but I'm not sure "why aren't young people attracted to the hobby?" is really the right question, but rather it's "what is different now compared to when we (i.e., older members) entered the hobby that is prohibiting young people from doing the same?" Amateur astronomy will suffer from the same hardships as nearly all other expensive hobbies for the foreseeable future --- it's simply too niche and too expensive to hope to attract great numbers of people. I know this forum is entirely non-political, and I have no intention of starting a debate on economic policy or anything like that. The question I posed may demand at least some considerations of policy though, so maybe that's something for everyone to consider to themselves...

Edited by JoeFaz, 19 September 2023 - 01:31 PM.

[largefather]

I'm not entirely sure there are any other young people in the area with both an interest and the financial ability to participate in the hobby.

Yea I would agree. For many young people who may be interested observers the issues are largely economic or ability (light pollution, ability to travel, etc)

I do think that it's possible to enter the hobby affordably, what I don't know is how easy it is to enter the hobby affordably. The Orion star blast or sky watcher heritage model that I got are great bang for your buck in terms of getting good equipment at a good price. Yes you can spend more but I don't think you need to. A few hundred dollars isn't unreasonable if, and only if, you think you'll be able to use it. I think the reason why many people think it's an expensive hobby is that their perception (or possibly circumstances) are that they will only use it a few times a year.

[UnityLover]

Yea I would agree. For many young people who may be interested observers the issues are largely economic or ability (light pollution, ability to travel, etc)

I do think that it's possible to enter the hobby affordably, what I don't know is how easy it is to enter the hobby affordably. The Orion star blast or sky watcher heritage model that I got are great bang for your buck in terms of getting good equipment at a good price. Yes you can spend more but I don't think you need to. A few hundred dollars isn't unreasonable if, and only if, you think you'll be able to use it. I think the reason why many people think it's an expensive hobby is that their perception (or possibly circumstances) are that they will only use it a few times a year.

Another problem is people also never think there are good scopes under 200 dollars. The orion skyscanner is a 100mm (4 in) tableto p reflector, 120 dollars. Cheap, but good start for DSOS. The 76mm spaceprobe is around 100 bucks. Not good for DSOs, but great for planets. A 150 dollar, EQ-3 mounted 114mm telescope is also there.

[Astrophoche]

What's with all this rugged individualism?  Does EVERYone in an astronomy club NEED their own equipment?  Our club is still dealing with COVID. Not the disease itself but the fall-out.  Most members either got use to going it alone or got so much technical gear, they don't want to haul it anywhere. Meetings were interesting, but on-line. Some say  "I'll just set up in my backyard." rather than "Where will we hang out?"

 

Some clubs have "loaner scopes" available. There is lots of sharing that can go on in a club. If you had a High School Astronomy club, would everyone need to buy a scope to belong? Really isn't sharing what a club should be? Not to take home someone else's equipment, but to experience and learn about the great universe there is with the equipment we have.

 

We DO have light pollution issues. I live at the fringe of the worst light in our city. But instead of deep space stuff (Who can see guide stars?) The planets and moon are great targets. And if nothing else, on cloudy nights, we do have the internet and the wonders of our galaxy at our fingertips. 

[JoeFaz]

The orion skyscanner is a 100mm (4 in) tableto p reflector, 120 dollars. Cheap, but good start for DSOS.

This looks like a good option for a "loaner." There is basically no money in our club besides the Astro League dues and what we pay for the website, but I've had some ideas floating around for possibly bringing in a small amount of money for that type of thing, as I think "loaners" are our obvious best bet for attracting new members. I think it warrants a discussion with the club president next meeting. Thank you for the suggestion!

[dnrmilspec]

.....

 

We live in a fairly poor area. Amateur astronomy is not a cheap hobby by most people's standards. I mean no disrespect, but anyone who's claimed otherwise on here is a little out-of-touch. Our household income is 3-4x the average in our county, and still it was difficult enough to convince my wife to let me buy my telescope (which is just a 6" dob) and binoculars, and not because she's "cheap." It sounds like many of the members here might be shocked if they knew the number of people my age or younger in this area that could afford a telescope that is high enough quality to be truly usable (I don't know the actual number, of course). The number would be higher for who could afford a decent pair of binoculars, but you'd wind up at another equally low number considering many people are simply uninterested in binocular astronomy. The point is that we have no young people in our club because I'm not entirely sure there are any other young people in the area with both an interest and the financial ability to participate in the hobby.

 

Sorry for the long post, and for just my second post on here nonetheless, but I'm not sure "why aren't young people attracted to the hobby?" is really the right question, but rather it's "what is different now compared to when we (i.e., older members) entered the hobby that is prohibiting young people from doing the same?" Amateur astronomy will suffer from the same hardships as nearly all other expensive hobbies for the foreseeable future --- it's simply too niche and too expensive to hope to attract great numbers of people. I know this forum is entirely non-political, and I have no intention of starting a debate on economic policy or anything like that. The question I posed may demand at least some considerations of policy though, so maybe that's something for everyone to consider to themselves...

While I am very sympathetic to the loss of our middle class, I think we are part of the problem on this very forum.  Time after time a new person posts here and is immediately discouraged by the gearheads who denigrate entry level telescopes.  They refer to anything short of a $1000.00 scope as "hobby killer" and speak in very disparaging terms of small achromatic refractors.  Even the venerable 6" reflector that so many of us lusted after in our younger days comes under fire.  Then we invite the new person to a star party just to show them what they are missing.  There is a thread now in which a new person bought a 5" reflector and is being bombarded with eyepiece recommendations that will more than triple the cost of the scope.  Some of us ought to know better.  We grew up at a time when a 4" Achromat was considered a killer advanced  telescope and my "big" Meade 8" Newtonian cost the equivalent of $2500.00 today.  Thank god we have inexpensive scopes available today that can provide years of enjoyment.  We need to stop talking about the machine and start talking about the magic.
 

[CarolinaBanker]

Have you priced up a high end gaming PC? How much a decent Smartphone costs? The gaming PC is several thousand dollars and not that rare in many houses. The Dwarf 2 and SeeStar are way less dollar wise. The same with Smartphones most young folks own then.
With LP in many cities, is difficult to hunt what isn’t visible.

But to me that’s not the visual astronomy that most of us are interested in. It’s like organizing a sailing club and then saying well, it’s less popular than it’s been historically, let’s add kayaking and canoeing to get in the young folks. They’re fundamentally different, I want to be with fellow visual observers. 

 

Also, I think the issue is the initial setup cost, most gamers start with a handheld or console system as opposed to a PC. The $2-500 range is seemingly where most beginners start because it’s not so much of an investment as to be onerous. Smartphones are dare I say almost a necessity, also you can get a low end one for $100. People enter with a cheap setup and then if they like it step up. A 4” refractor or 6” dob is good enough and works well enough as a serious instrument.

[largefather]

What's with all this rugged individualism?  Does EVERYone in an astronomy club NEED their own equipment?  Our club is still dealing with COVID. Not the disease itself but the fall-out.  Most members either got use to going it alone or got so much technical gear, they don't want to haul it anywhere. Meetings were interesting, but on-line. Some say  "I'll just set up in my backyard." rather than "Where will we hang out?"

 

Some clubs have "loaner scopes" available. There is lots of sharing that can go on in a club. If you had a High School Astronomy club, would everyone need to buy a scope to belong? Really isn't sharing what a club should be? Not to take home someone else's equipment, but to experience and learn about the great universe there is with the equipment we have.

 

We DO have light pollution issues. I live at the fringe of the worst light in our city. But instead of deep space stuff (Who can see guide stars?) The planets and moon are great targets. And if nothing else, on cloudy nights, we do have the internet and the wonders of our galaxy at our fingertips. 

i don't think loaners are a bad thing, i mentioned earlier in the thread that there are some people putting telescopes into local library systems and that's a great form of outreach as it lets people who may want access to equipment but in a space where they can be self directed have that access. 

 

but let's also not pretend that anyone that is likely to take the hobby up isn't also likely to buy their own gear. if for nothing else than convenience. i live in the country, if i didn't own my own gear, i might not be able to go out when conditions allow. i might also borrow a scope and then get no favourable conditions in the "borrowing period". i just think that long term loaners are not a viable solution to hobby growth. people are likely to buy gear then, either new or used, and making them aware that there is some great gear that can get them years of good views and likely hold their value well if they wanted to upgrade later is good info. 

 

that said, it is somewhat telling that cloudy nights has the equipment area which accounts for over 50% of the total comments for all threads made (not counting off topic or site specific) and that the average comments per thread of just those boards is 16.82 compared to 11.35 for all the other areas of the site (which also include many discussions about equipment and buying) my point here is that i think forums like this tend to be more focused towards gear. Like many modern hobbies, most of the talk appears to be about buying things to do the hobby rather than the hobby. 

Edited by largefather, 20 September 2023 - 09:54 AM.

[kasprowy]

But to me that’s not the visual astronomy that most of us are interested in. It’s like organizing a sailing club and then saying well, it’s less popular than it’s been historically, let’s add kayaking and canoeing to get in the young folks. They’re fundamentally different, I want to be with fellow visual observers. 

 

After 40 years or so of doing visual astronomy on my own, I decided to join a club. I was utterly amazed to discover that only myself and one or two other people appeared to have and use eyepieces, while the vast majority set up computerized scopes and laptops. I felt as if I joined a photography club, which is fine if that is what interests you, it's just not for me. I do most of my observing in my Bortle 8/9 backyard, with high trees to the north, east, and west, and power lines to the south. I've learned to live with the situation, and enjoy it, mainly lunar, planetary, and double stars. My largest scope is a 5" Mak. Once in a while I get out somewhere really dark.

[kasprowy]

. Like many modern hobbies, most of the talk appears to be able buying things to do the hobby rather than the hobby. 

Spot on. And in regard to that, a lot of the equipment talk deals with problems of said equipment. It's why I am fine doing visual only on manual mounts.

[Starman1]

It took me 20 years of observing before I got up to a 6" size scope; 30 years before I got to 8", and 40+years before I got to 12.5".

Now it will be 60 years of observing before I get to 16".

You don't really need a large scope to enjoy visual observing.  I still enjoy using a 4" refractor.

 

But, it REALLY helps to have darker skies.  For those of us who live under bright night skies virtually devoid of stars, travel to darker skies is virtually mandatory.

That means, for most of us, you need to have a car and the ability to pay for gas.

Unless Mom or Dad is into astronomy, that significantly limits the involvement of the very young.

The backyard becomes the place for observing, and the daunting prospect of bright sky observing can be seriously discouraging.

Not all young people are self-propelled in that endeavor.  Some mentorship is almost a requirement.

 

For me, that mentorship was the local library, but that won't work for many of today's young people.

Club outings can be, if the young person is even allowed to join a star party far from home.

Camping trips with the family can be if the young person has some optical aid (even binoculars) and the will to learn the sky.

 

The bright skies, alas, have steepened the learning curve significantly and made entry into the hobby much more difficult than in my youth.

And, in a significant way, the ubiquitous presence of fantastic deep-sky photography has made that entry into the hobby even more difficult by raising expectations to a ridiculous height, causing serious discouragement.

Not to mention that today's youth is expected to always be on the go, and sit still only long enough to do homework.  Could you imagine any 10 year old today sitting and reading a book for 4 hours without moving off the couch?

I think astronomy appeals to those who are patient, appreciate quiet, perhaps even like to be alone, and enjoy a slow-paced activity that requires perseverance in the face of discouragement.

 

Perhaps that will always limit the number of people who enter the hobby and stick with it over time.  Perhaps those attracted to astronomy will enter and enjoy the hobby all on their own, as long as they are not

discouraged by others from doing so.

Edited by Starman1, 20 September 2023 - 09:58 AM.

[Phil Cowell]

Well when your sailing club is dying doing things the way it always has it’s time to do things differently, is it not? The most sought after gaming machine is the Sony PS5. Bare bones it’s $500 if you can find one. You then need to add controllers for more than 1 person. You need an internet account to register and get updates, plus the bandwidth to play games over the Internet. Then you need games. The base $500 has moved to more than double with games averaging $50 - $150 each. There is more cash out there than folks think, take a look at game sales.

You like hanging with others a large segment of the young don’t. They (based on my grandsons) have a small group of friends and are not interested in get together groups. They hangout on social media and share there. There are light control rules and the segment of the hobby that are biased against robotic systems. 
You’re trying to shape what young folks should do to what you want but that’s not where most young folks are. It’s the old repeating past failures and expecting different results. The topic is attracting young folks into the hobby, trying to justify that with what obviously isn’t working isn’t going to work by magic.

If you want to attract the young you need to pitch the hobby in a way the do things, not the old tried and failed methods. As for the $100 smartphone try giving one of the to anyone over 8 years old and listen to the “thanks”.  Times have changed and so have a couple new generations.

The Light Pollution most city folks are dealing with negates most of the old traditional starter scopes. They are great at a site where LP is low but for many that involves travel and a car costs more than a scope traditional or entry level robotic. 
It’s easier to reach people on social media than in person and one of the local area club stated they had more people attend their star party virtually than in person. Times have changed and to attract the young a change in tactic needs to happen. They can connect to a virtual star party with a smartphone (maybe not a $100 one though).

 

But to me that’s not the visual astronomy that most of us are interested in. It’s like organizing a sailing club and then saying well, it’s less popular than it’s been historically, let’s add kayaking and canoeing to get in the young folks. They’re fundamentally different, I want to be with fellow visual observers. 

 

Also, I think the issue is the initial setup cost, most gamers start with a handheld or console system as opposed to a PC. The $2-500 range is seemingly where most beginners start because it’s not so much of an investment as to be onerous. Smartphones are dare I say almost a necessity, also you can get a low end one for $100. People enter with a cheap setup and then if they like it step up. A 4” refractor or 6” dob is good enough and works well enough as a serious instrument.

Edited by Phil Cowell, 20 September 2023 - 12:16 PM.

[UnityLover]

Well when your sailing club is dying doing things the way it always has it’s time to do things differently, is it not? The most sought after gaming machine is the Sony PS5. Bare bones it’s $500 if you can find one. You then need to add controllers for more than 1 person. You need an internet account to register and get updates, plus the bandwidth to play games over the Internet. Then you need games. The base $500 has moved to more than double with games averaging $50 - $150 each. There is more cash out there than folks think, take a look at game sales.

You like hanging with others a large segment of the young don’t. They (based on my grandsons) have a small group of friends and are not interested in get together groups. They hangout on social media and share there. There are light control rules and the segment of the hobby that are biased against robotic systems. 
You’re trying to shape what young folks should do to what you want but that’s not where most young folks are. It’s the old repeating past failures and expecting different results. The topic is attracting young folks into the hobby, trying to justify that with what obviously isn’t working isn’t going to work by magic.

If you want to attract the young you need to pitch the hobby in a way the do things, not the old tried and failed methods. As for the $100 smartphone try giving one of the to anyone over 8 years old and listen to the “thanks”.  Times have changed and so have a couple new generations.

The Light Pollution most city folks are dealing with negates most of the old traditional starter scopes. They are great at a site where LP is low but for many that involves travel and a car costs more than a scope traditional or entry level robotic. 
It’s easier to reach people on social media than in person and one of the local area club stated they had more people attend their star party virtually than in person. Times have changed and to attract the young a change in tactic needs to happen. They can connect to a virtual star party with a smartphone (maybe not a $100 one though).

You also do realize that the virtual attendance is a bit inflamed. Anyone can attend virtually, but unless they are nearby or got the bug, they arent gonna drive to a star party. 

[rgk901]

I say we install 1400hp engines on them sailboats!! that'll do it

[Phil Cowell]

Those connecting virtually were local as it’s a local club and not targeting a world wide attendance. The get togethers are not the big draw anymore. Virtual star party feeds also are great outreach to those who are disabled, a great service as the amateur astronomical community continues to age.

If they don’t have either the ability to attend in person or don’t have the bug, you have a potential new member. You have at least reached a potential new member or someone with interest and you get contact information.

Also as stated before many people in large cities don’t have cars as they have a reasonable transportation infrastructure. A car in that case is a cost that’s well down the essentials list.

Virtual attendance is a reality, it’s happening and folks are on the other end of the link. The old days are gone and not coming back. The virtual option is a method that is being used and is working. The fact that anyone can attend virtually is one of the great points.

 

 

You also do realize that the virtual attendance is a bit inflamed. Anyone can attend virtually, but unless they are nearby or got the bug, they arent gonna drive to a star party. 

Edited by Phil Cowell, 20 September 2023 - 07:21 PM.

[CarolinaBanker]

Well when your sailing club is dying doing things the way it always has it’s time to do things differently, is it not? The most sought after gaming machine is the Sony PS5. Bare bones it’s $500 if you can find one. You then need to add controllers for more than 1 person. You need an internet account to register and get updates, plus the bandwidth to play games over the Internet. Then you need games. The base $500 has moved to more than double with games averaging $50 - $150 each. There is more cash out there than folks think, take a look at game sales.

You like hanging with others a large segment of the young don’t. They (based on my grandsons) have a small group of friends and are not interested in get together groups. They hangout on social media and share there. There are light control rules and the segment of the hobby that are biased against robotic systems. 
You’re trying to shape what young folks should do to what you want but that’s not where most young folks are. It’s the old repeating past failures and expecting different results. The topic is attracting young folks into the hobby, trying to justify that with what obviously isn’t working isn’t going to work by magic.

If you want to attract the young you need to pitch the hobby in a way the do things, not the old tried and failed methods. As for the $100 smartphone try giving one of the to anyone over 8 years old and listen to the “thanks”.  Times have changed and so have a couple new generations.

The Light Pollution most city folks are dealing with negates most of the old traditional starter scopes. They are great at a site where LP is low but for many that involves travel and a car costs more than a scope traditional or entry level robotic. 
It’s easier to reach people on social media than in person and one of the local area club stated they had more people attend their star party virtually than in person. Times have changed and to attract the young a change in tactic needs to happen. They can connect to a virtual star party with a smartphone (maybe not a $100 one though).

You don’t do things differently if you want a sailing club. You get smarter on outreach and more beginner friendly. AP and EAA bluntly aren’t my hobby. In fact I think AP is a completely different hobby that shares some characteristics with visual astronomy, but is so different as to make them at best, cousins. EAA is closer to visual and there’s more overlap. Since urbanites have cruddy skies you do more lunar and planetary. You offer sidewalk outreach, maybe you set up a binocular section. 

[Phil Cowell]

Well enjoy the decline. Visual is stagnating due to LP and your outreach and beginner friendly methods have so far been less than impressive in attracting new folks to the hobby. Visual isn’t my hobby, EAA and NV are and I have reasonable skies. Building a pre-retirement observatory made things much better when I hit retirement. I can’t remember the last time I used an eyepiece (apart from having an NV attached). Let’s see how well old school visual does against robotic scopes with the younger segment of society over the next 5 years.
 

You don’t do things differently if you want a sailing club. You get smarter on outreach and more beginner friendly. AP and EAA bluntly aren’t my hobby. In fact I think AP is a completely different hobby that shares some characteristics with visual astronomy, but is so different as to make them at best, cousins. EAA is closer to visual and there’s more overlap. Since urbanites have cruddy skies you do more lunar and planetary. You offer sidewalk outreach, maybe you set up a binocular section. 

Edited by Phil Cowell, 20 September 2023 - 08:57 PM.

[CarolinaBanker]

Well enjoy the decline. Visual is stagnating due to LP and your outreach and beginner friendly methods have so far been less than impressive in attracting new folks to the hobby. Visual isn’t my hobby, EAA and NV are and I have reasonable skies. Building a pre-retirement observatory made things much better when I hit retirement. I can’t remember the last time I used an eyepiece (apart from having an NV attached). Let’s see how well old school visual does against robotic scopes with the younger segment of society over the next 5 years.

Considering I’m in my early thirties I’m not overly concerned. I’d seem to be in that key demographic of younger folks. Visual is hardly stagnating the last fifty years have seen huge gains with big dobs, goto, StarSense, wide field EPs. I’m not sure why you’re beating the EAA drum when it seems to be mostly older people, many of whom come to it due declining eyesight.

[justfred]

Does anyone have real world numbers for the past decade or two: equipment sales, magazine and ezine subscriptions, star party attendance, Facebook and other internet site views, Forum traffic, shifts in demographics,  etc.? 

 

Its cloudy tonight...

 

Fred

[Phil Cowell]

By young I was looking at the technically savvy 20 year olds. You missed NV and my eyesights fine. Just found visual boring and moved on to deeper targets.

Considering I’m in my early thirties I’m not overly concerned. I’d seem to be in that key demographic of younger folks. Visual is hardly stagnating the last fifty years have seen huge gains with big dobs, goto, StarSense, wide field EPs. I’m not sure why you’re beating the EAA drum when it seems to be mostly older people, many of whom come to it due declining eyesight.

Edited by Phil Cowell, 20 September 2023 - 11:38 PM.

[Phil Cowell]

Fred,

  Yes there is data available out there most is not free. You can read a high level summary of estimated Compound Annual Growth Rate.

https://www.reportsa...elescope-market

The CAGR is anticipated at 8.2%. The Market trend is an increased interest in AP. It’s looking from now to 2030.

The report is 261 pages.

 

Another is here:

https://www.reportsa...elescope-market

The Market Synopsis is interesting as it states growth in devices that integrate with smart handsets and IoT devices driving rapid adoption of astronomical devices.

 

The full reports are not free, but a company you work with might provide access.

 

Phil

 

Does anyone have real world numbers for the past decade or two: equipment sales, magazine and ezine subscriptions, star party attendance, Facebook and other internet site views, Forum traffic, shifts in demographics,  etc.? 

 

Its cloudy tonight...

 

Fred

[rgk901]

not sure why the visual hater makes it a point to hate on visual and keep selling that imaging is only way to get young people into clubs...yet by many repors clubs are already mostly all imaging anyway lol

[dnrmilspec]

I know for a fact that young people are buying scopes for visual.  I have seen many of them do it.  And they show up at our star parties to learn how to use them.

 

Last Saturday I did a star party sponsored by a nonprofit and open to the public.  It required a moderate drive of around 40 minutes from Tucson and attracted probably 100 people.  (Just a guess.)  There were 5 doctors, a truck driver, and a school teacher that I know of and the group was ethnically and racially diverse from all appearances.  There were only two people even close to my age.  We had four scopes.  Two operated by a husband and wife in their 30's.  Two operated by oldsters including myself.  There was a family who brought their 130mm reflector to learn how to use it.   There was one 6" scope using a NVD of some kind.  One 20" Dob and I brought the 6" refractor.  I think the other one was an 8" Dob.

 

I gave some pointers to the family who brought their scope.  I showed them how to balance it, roughly polar align it, and generally cleaned it up for them.  I did not compare it to the other scopes but rather showed them how "much" they could see with it and praised them for their choice.  I think they went away happy with their small scope, aware of its strengths and capabilities and motivated to use it.  (We all would be wise to remember when, "back in the day", we thought a 5" scope was a lot.  It still is actually. The views from their 5" reflector were more similar to my 6" refractor than they were different and I pointed that out to them.) 

 

So this "sample of one" shows that young people like visual.  It shows that they are willing to drive an hour to look through a telescope and that they are not joined at the hip with astrophotographers.  I find this to be typical of public outreach star parties. 

 

I would add this though.  The very key to the success of these events is in the people presenting.  They MUST not be gearheads who want to show off their toys.  They must be prepared with interesting things to say about the objects they are showing.  Nothing more off putting that getting "I don't know" as the answer to how far away Saturn is.  They can't be fussy about people touching (including focusing) their telescopes.  They have to be into engaging the children who attend and OK with them looking through and touching the scope.  And they have to be able to maintain their enthusiasm for a couple of hours so that everyone has a quality experience.  And finally they need to tell people you do not have to invest a thousand dollars to begin to enjoy telescope visual astronomy. 

 

Sadly, that last part is infinitely harder to get than some geezer with a ginormous telescope who spends the night telling people (especially children) not to touch.

 

One little boy who showed up before dark watched me setting up.  I could see he was just seriously excited.  He said to me, "I am so excited I can't wait".  So I paused for a moment, swung the big refractor down to a house on a hill many miles distant and let him get a peek.  He was sold on the spot and spent the first hour after nightfall going from scope to scope and looking for as long as he could.  Tell me he didn't have a quality experience.  And a young amateur astronomer was born.

[Freezout]

It ends up being a battle visual/AP here... 

 

Phil when you write in your signature:

"Non-visual astronomy only. Definitely not part of the old Naked and Afraid Astrolabe edition of Astronomy." 

 

I don't like go-to. But I find NV attractive. In what box does that put me?

[bunyon]

Huh. I hadn't seen that line in Phil's signature.

 

It's exactly the sort of attitude, going either way, that will turn people off. 

 

Amateur astronomy is far too niche of a hobby to divide itself further. But human nature is strong in humans.