74 replies to this topic

[vsteblina]

Looking at 40 acres in Costilla Co. Colorado to do something similar.

You might want to read this book first.

 

https://www.amazon.c...k/dp/B09QPJKSXM
 

[SouthWestAstro]

Some of the information generated by this thread has been incorporated into a new version of the Chiricahua Sky Village Web site:

 

https://chiricahuaskyvillage.com

[blueplanetphoto]

A question about these types of communities. I assume there is land surrounding that is available for development. What protections are in place, if any are possible, to ensure someone doesn't put in a vacation cabin or cabin resort next door with all the associated lighting and activity? I'm sure the remoteness adds some protection, but how long will that last?

[SouthWestAstro]

A question about these types of communities. I assume there is land surrounding that is available for development. What protections are in place, if any are possible, to ensure someone doesn't put in a vacation cabin or cabin resort next door with all the associated lighting and activity? I'm sure the remoteness adds some protection, but how long will that last?

 

This can happen anywhere where the land is not under protection by the Local, State or Federal Governments, or by some other trust arrangement.

 

The best answer to your question is to look at the map on our website showing the location of Chiricahua Sky Village:

 

https://chiricahuask...m/our-location/

 

Extensive development is not likely where Chiricahua Sky Village is located, simply because it is located in a remote, low-population area where the cost of development and the associated risk are both high and where there's no need for it. Development locally is primarily associated with agriculture and transitioning from ranching to viniculture.

[NikhilJoshi]

A question about these types of communities. I assume there is land surrounding that is available for development. What protections are in place, if any are possible, to ensure someone doesn't put in a vacation cabin or cabin resort next door with all the associated lighting and activity? I'm sure the remoteness adds some protection, but how long will that last?

I think it starts by knowing your neighbors and being a good neighbor. At GSV we communicate frequently with the owners of the adjacent properties. They understand why purchased the property and I think they appreciate that we value the area for the same reasons they do - the peace, the quiet, and beautiful natural setting, which includes the dark skies. They know to expect more of us during new moons and they understand the need for controlled lighting. Inviting them to join us to observe etc. helps them understand and appreciate what we do.

 

They've accommodated us by controlling their external lighting, and we've accommodated them by not building lots directly in the way of their best views. 

 

All our construction took a toll on the gravel roads in the area, but we've paid to repair/regrade them after our busy construction seasons over the years. We've improved the shared access road to our property which benefits our neighbors. 

 

We've also spoken to them about our interest in buying their properties if and when they consider selling, so we can protect our skies. You're right that there's no guarantee but building goodwill goes a long way.

 

Personally, I think being a good neighbor also extends to the nearby town. It's small, and I'm sure they know who's local and who isn't. I tip well in the restaurants, and we've used a local contractor for all our work, so I think that although we're not townies by any means, they see that we're investing in their community.

 

-NJ

[DSO Viewer AZ]

This can happen anywhere where the land is not under protection by the Local, State or Federal Governments, or by some other trust arrangement.

 

The best answer to your question is to look at the map on our website showing the location of Chiricahua Sky Village:

 

https://chiricahuask...m/our-location/

 

Extensive development is not likely where Chiricahua Sky Village is located, simply because it is located in a remote, low-population area where the cost of development and the associated risk are both high and where there's no need for it. Development locally is primarily associated with agriculture and transitioning from ranching to viniculture.

I would add that all new construction in our area is required to meet some of the most strict light pollution requirements out there that I am aware of. This has been the case for years, long before “light pollution” became popular, due to all of the professional observatories in and around the county. Mt. Graham Observatory can be seen from my observing deck. It’s part of the lifestyle in this part of the country. Right now the county is very interested in astro tourism, so they are trying hard to preserve the night sky from the top down. I stayed at a ranch Airbnb in the early days of CSV and found this by the front door.

The chances of “development” in our neck of the woods is extremely unlikely. Sunizona, our closest “town” (and that term is a stretch) is around 200 people spaced over a huge expanse. The next closest towns are Pierce and Sunsites, some 22+ miles away and has a population of less than 1000. There are more unoccupied structures than occupied. And these towns seem to be shrinking rather than expanding. We try hard to spend what we can locally to support local businesses. They are already hanging on by a thread. Winery’s are the newest draw, and most are very far away from us. And while they do encourage visitors, it is a daytime sport, most go back to Tucson. Day trippers. There is nothing in our area that would ever draw a new community. Unless it was for the night sky, or off grid homesteading, hence, our little community. 

[morvek]

FYI, the Cochise County outdoor lighting code can be found at https://cochisecount...UTDOOR_LIGHTING

[SouthWestAstro]

In early May I had a chance to image NGC 5139 (Omega Centauri) from CSV.

 

https://en.wikipedia.../Omega_Centauri

 

At that time of the year in southern Arizona this massive southern sky globular cluster can reach an altitude of 10 degrees. The high desert terrain at CSV gives 360 degrees views of the horizon and facilitates observing and imaging at low altitudes.

 

I used my Takahashi FC-100DZ (with the FC-35 reducer) and ASI533MC Pro on an AM5 mount. The set up is shown here pointed at the target.

 

 

 

I was able to gather data over an hour. The data was processed in Pixinsight leading to this image.

 

 

[jcj380]

Are there any places like CSV in the Iowa, Missouri, Kansas region?

[12BH7]

I know that area. Johnny Ringo's grave is out there. I often hike in the Chiricahua's. I would carry out there.  

[csmythies]

To my knowledge, there is no sky village like GSV or CSV in the Iowa, Missouri or Kansas areas - at least, not yet. If you're interested in establishing one, I could help get you started. The main things you need are 1) a good group of people to be founding members, and 2) a cheap parcel of land under dark skies.

[bjmccoy50]

I am a member of GSV and CSV. It is a 5 hour drive to get to GSV from where I live.
CSV is a plane trip to Tucson and a 2 hr drive after that. So why become a member of CSV if it so far away?

For $5000. I got a site I could build a Personal Remote Observatory on. I use the PRO every night the weather is clear.

The weather is such that when it poor in Washington, the weather is good for observing in southern Arizona.

Now instead of a long drive to dark site, I just log to my PRO and start an imaging job (via Voyager). There are no monthly fees.

I control the cost…OK my wife controls the cost…but you know what I mean. If I wish to sell I expect to get most of my investment back.

With the solar and all I spent less than $7000 for an observatory ready to mount my equipment on the 8” cement pier and setup for remote imaging.

I chose to install my own StartLink system, but the site does have a mesh network powered by a Starlink system as well.

I did all the construction myself in three days and another two days waiting for pier to harden up.

If you want to do a lot of imaging without the high hourly cost of renting a pier, I think this a good approach.

Blaine

 

Below is YouTube overview of the PRO

 

https://youtu.be/oQi...Af5N9ixMaW_yti





[KTAZ]

As Blaine mentioned; the primary reason to have a lot in a location such as CSV is not only to take advantage of the Arizona dark skies, but the amazing number of clear nights during which you can image, particularly if you have an obsy set up for remote operation.

 

300+ nights a year of clear skies is a mighty strong incentive. Relatively few locations can offer this.

[starfinder123123]

You might want to read this book first.

https://www.amazon.c...k/dp/B09QPJKSXM

Great book! Thought about this for a while. But too much out in the boonies plus crime is up in the valley.

[starfinder123123]

Seems like a lot.
Guynin easyern CO renting an 80 acres lot for $20 a month.

[KTAZ]

Seems like a lot.
Guynin easyern CO renting an 80 acres lot for $20 a month.

Don't think I'd like to invest 5k to 10k on a rental.

[vsteblina]

This can happen anywhere where the land is not under protection by the Local, State or Federal Governments, or by some other trust arrangement.

 

The best answer to your question is to look at the map on our website showing the location of Chiricahua Sky Village:

 

https://chiricahuask...m/our-location/

 

Extensive development is not likely where Chiricahua Sky Village is located, simply because it is located in a remote, low-population area where the cost of development and the associated risk are both high and where there's no need for it. Development locally is primarily associated with agriculture and transitioning from ranching to viniculture.

I have a place in Benson.  I wouldn't call Chiricahua Sky Village remote by any measure!!!  It is more developed than most areas I have seen in my travels and work experience.

 

It is dark right now.  I measured 21.9 at  CAC.  

 

It is a rapidly developing with residential development in the area.  How it plays out in the long run remains to be seen, but residential development in Arizona is rapidly transforming that area.  It does have a light ordinance and lots of clear nights in winter.  

 

It will be fine for the next decade or so.

[EricSi]

Has anyone measured the sky with a SQM or SQML at GSV? I'd be curious what a typical night looks like, or what the range is throughout the year.

This is my first full summer at GSV, so I don't have enough measurements to know what is typical, or how it varies seasonally, but when I was out there in August on a good clear night, it was 21.3 or 21.4.

[SouthWestAstro]

I have a place in Benson.  I wouldn't call Chiricahua Sky Village remote by any measure!!!  It is more developed than most areas I have seen in my travels and work experience.

 

It is dark right now.  I measured 21.9 at  CAC.  

 

It is a rapidly developing with residential development in the area.  How it plays out in the long run remains to be seen, but residential development in Arizona is rapidly transforming that area.  It does have a light ordinance and lots of clear nights in winter.  

 

It will be fine for the next decade or so.

By remote I meant distant, but I was also implying accessibility. The term is subjective for this context. Suffice it to say that nobody will build a CSV at a location that’s only accessible via helicopter.

 

But let me share some facts so that other readers will get the picture.

 

When one talks about growth and development in Arizona, one is mostly talking about Maricopa County (Phoenix) and Pima County (Tucson). Everything else is on the margins. These counties have populations of ~4.5M and ~1.05M, respectively.

 

CSV is in Cochise County (population 125,444) which has a land area (6,219 sq mi) comparable to the states of Connecticut and Rhode Island combined (combined population ~4.7M). The town of Benson you mentioned has a population of about 5,000 and is about a 50 mi drive from CSV. Sierra Vista, the largest town in Cochise County has a population of 46,000 and is a 60 mi drive from CSV. The population of Cochise County grew in the first 15 years or so of this century but is flat now.

 

There is simply no serious residential development within 40-50 miles of CSV. 

[vsteblina]

By remote I meant distant, but I was also implying accessibility. The term is subjective for this context. Suffice it to say that nobody will build a CSV at a location that’s only accessible via helicopter.

 

But let me share some facts so that other readers will get the picture.

 

When one talks about growth and development in Arizona, one is mostly talking about Maricopa County (Phoenix) and Pima County (Tucson). Everything else is on the margins. These counties have populations of ~4.5M and ~1.05M, respectively.

 

CSV is in Cochise County (population 125,444) which has a land area (6,219 sq mi) comparable to the states of Connecticut and Rhode Island combined (combined population ~4.7M). The town of Benson you mentioned has a population of about 5,000 and is about a 50 mi drive from CSV. Sierra Vista, the largest town in Cochise County has a population of 46,000 and is a 60 mi drive from CSV. The population of Cochise County grew in the first 15 years or so of this century but is flat now.

 

There is simply no serious residential development within 40-50 miles of CSV. 

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

Growth in Cochise County has been flat to negative from 2000.  Since the pandemic there has been a population influx.

 

It depends what you call "residential development".  Lots of homes being built in the area, they are not subdivisions in the urban sense.

 

With the exception of the Arizona strip it is probably as dark and warm as your going to find in Arizona.  It is a fine area for astronomy.  

 

It will be very different a decade from now.

[morvek]

I am a member of CSV.  I live in near Saint David (since 2008) which is about 35 miles as "the raven flies" from CSV.  There has been some development along I-90 on the west side of Benson but I have seen very little development around Pearce, AZ.  It is currently agricultural land.  That could change if the Chiricahua National Monument becomes a national park, however, if that happens I would expect growth around Willcox which is about 30 miles north of Pearce.  It is difficult to forecast the future of this area but my sense is it will change very little in the next 20-30 years.

[SouthWestAstro]

There is a new version of the Chiricahua Sky Village web site which features information about a new feature, the Personal Remote Observatory (The PRO).

 

https://chiricahuaskyvillage.com/

 

The PRO is also featured in a new article in Scope Trader magazine:

 

https://scopetrader....-observatories/

[Ihtegla Sar]

This is my first full summer at GSV, so I don't have enough measurements to know what is typical, or how it varies seasonally, but when I was out there in August on a good clear night, it was 21.3 or 21.4.

Thanks.  I have been interested in GSV but haven't found time to try to schedule a trip to check it out.  I have a private place to set up that is pretty nice about halfway between Goldendale and Dallasport.  Skies at GSV may be a little darker, but I have always wondered how much.  Based on those readings probably not much darker than where I set up now since those are pretty typical readings for me in the summer, although in the early fall, my readings went way up and I was getting 21.1-21.2 pretty much all night.  That was a little brighter than typical, which has been closer to 21.3-21.4 SQML pretty much everywhere I point it above 45 degrees over the horizon.

[OAJoe]

You might want to read this book first.

 

https://www.amazon.c...k/dp/B09QPJKSXM
 

Thanks for recommending the book. I did pick out parts that talked about some astronomical aspects of what the skies look like in the San Luis Valley.

 

https://sciencelibra...-land-colorado/

[SouthWestAstro]

Chiricahua Sky Village is featured in a recent episode (#486) of the Actual Astronomy Podcast:

 

https://actualastronomy.com/