16 replies to this topic

[Siggy6]

Hi everybody and thanks for this forum. I bought an Orion 130ST Equatorial Reflector Telescope And love it so far. However, I am not impressed with the tripod and mount though as it’s not sturdy and I am still finding it difficult to find many targets and using the manual adjustments. I have been reading about electronic and go to mounts ranging from eq1 to eq6. Any recommendations for a specific one for planets and deep sky viewing. Thanks to all in advance.

[SkyDays]

Welcome to the forum Siggy6!  You are off to a good start ..... you jumped into the water    You will find TONS of great advice here, so keep the questions coming.  Much will always depend on budget of course.  It is tough when starting out because you do not want to spend a bunch of money when you are not sure if you are "all-in" on the hobby yet.

 

For me, I started with binoculars and dribbled away thousands of dollars for a few years on equipment that was just barely adequate for each of my progressive steps in the hobby.  I am into EAA and astro-photography now and wish I had just taken the plunge back then on a harmonic equatorial mount (like a ZWO AM3 or AM5).  I ended up purchasing the IOptron version of those with no regrets.

 

As you are finding already, once you have a mount that can handle way more than the payload you currently have, it allows you to easily dream of further gear for it to handle.    Everyone here will agree I think that if you spend almost all your budget on the biggest, best mount the rest will easily follow.  Clear skies and welcome again to a great hobby!

[gnowellsct]

However, I am not impressed with the tripod and mount though as it’s not sturdy and I am still finding it difficult to find many targets and using the manual adjustments.

This is why the gray beards in the hobby, when they buy a new scope, seldom buy a complete OEM system.

20 years ago I have this conversation with a guy and complained about the poor quality of my cg5 mount and how the vibrations were ruining my viewing and how various cheap expedients like damping pads didn't really help. I asked him if he knew of any mounts that solved the problem. He said Losmandy G11. I looked it up and saw the $2,000 price tag and wrote back to him, yeah right no way.

During the next year I continued my struggles with the cg5. I disassembled it. I cleaned it out and replaced the grease. I sanded the bearing track. I was following instructions on some website. But the mount did not get better.

By that time I was ready to shell out for the Losmandy G11. I did and 20 years later I'm still using it. What a fantastic piece of kit. I have purchased other mounts along the way as my telescope collection has expanded and to meet different needs.

We have a lot of people who get good results with their China export mounts. But I will not buy any of those unless some cruel contingency makes an American or European mount unavailable or beyond my means.

In fairness to the distance China manufacturing has come since 2002, I will say that some bizarre circumstances forced me to replace the optics on my 1989 vintage C8 in 2015. Those optics were excellent and a great improvement on the original.

But now you know that at the entry level they really cut corners.

Greg N

P.s you might think it would work out okay to pay the top of the line premium price for an astro - physics Mount and an astro-physics tripod and an astro-physics optic. But you'll wait 10 years for the optic and in the meantime you'll end up mixing and matching different equipment.

Edited by gnowellsct, 24 September 2023 - 06:16 PM.

[SkyDays]

Siggy6, I forgot to mention that your difficulty finding targets and working the manual controls is entirely NORMAL.  Everyone has gone through that and it gets easier and easier each time you give it a try.  Throw in some electronics sometime down the road and you will be cruising the sky like a pro.

[vtornado]

Are you in the United States?

 

Celestron has their finding system called star sense.  Unfortunately it cannot be purchased separately. 

 

AZ-GTI is available as a separate mount and works quite well.

Be aware that goto is not magic either. 

You will have to be able to identify some bright stars.

You need an area with few trees or other occlusions.

[zxx]

If viewing is your only interest this may be more bang for your $$$, https://www.amazon.c...la-306279063059

[Echolight]

Your first step should be to get a pair of tube rings and a Vixen dovetail.

This will guarantee that the scope itself won't flex when you put it on a sturdier mount.

 

As to equatorial mounts. They are not really a good match for visual use with newtonians because they move in a way that will have the eyepiece pointed all over the place. So you have to continually rotate the tube to keep the eyepiece pointed towards you.

 

Here's an example of how an eq mount moves when you cross the meridian., Know as the meridian flip.

https://youtu.be/b7c...16Q0_ZOA6IT3tAf

 

Although a CG4 can be used as an alt/az mount, and is plenty sturdy for a 130 f5 newtonian. Not goto though. And starting to get on the heavy side, and less convenient than lighter mounts.

 

Goto for me is a pain. An inhibitor of using a telescope for me. Wires and batteries or cords and star alignments and reading the little keypad.

Particularly heavy equatorial goto mounts with the necessary counterweights and  balancing and polar alignment.

I just want to go out and start looking.

 

There's lots of apps to help you find objects, like Stellarium, etc.

 

I have been using a jumbo planisphere basically since I started.

https://www.amazon.c...637518043&psc=1

Well,... after a short stint with a couple of goto mounts, including an AVX and an SE.

And I have an SLT also, which is the most convenient.

But still, I never use it 

 

The Messier Observer's Planisphere is a good one also.

 

Another great help in finding DSO's, for me, is binoculars.

 

Anyhow, I have the same telescope. With rings and a Vixen dovetail added.

I prefer manual alt-az mounts to anything else by a huge margin.

I use the 130 f5 newt on an Orion Versago II (no longer available) aka Skywatcher AZ4.

The Skywatcher AZ5 is a nice alternative, that comes with a short pier extension for extra clearance at zenith.

The SkyTee 2 is a good one also. And will hold a little bigger telescope if you ever get one.

Or a Vixen Porta II if you find one used.

 

A couple other affordable discontinued models that are more than capable are the  Universal Astronomics Unistar or the Explore Scientific Twilight II. These aren't so grab and go. They are more than you need. But they would certainly boss the little scope. It'd be the epitome of rock solid on either one.

And future proof in case you want a bigger scope later on.

I've seen 8 inch newtonians on a Twilight II.

I use a C8 on my Unistar. And have used a 6 inch achromat on it also. 

[Tank]

Celestron SE mount has bee a workhorse for me, 8" scts, 8"f4,115APO

Just works and well and very compact and light

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Edited by Tank, 24 September 2023 - 09:37 PM.

[Bungee]

Welcome, you'll find most all you need to know here without the condescension of other sites. You didn't say a lot about your experience, so pardon me if I assume some things. I've spent a lifetime learning the skies, so goto technology just frustrates me. I find it faster and more fun to just find what I'm looking for. Be patient and get a good chart or app. A pair of binos is a huge help.

 

A couple things about your mount. It can work fine with some practice. Make sure the tube is balanced, the process should be in your instructions. If you set it up properly (level, north, and latitude), then you'll only need to make subtle adjustments to one plane to be able to track your target. Also, before you ditch it, Orion makes a tracking motor for your mount that's not goto, it's just a clock drive.

 

Again, be patient. You'll never know if what you have is right for you until you spend time with it. Yes, there's seemingly no end to the better products out there, but as it has been said, you can spend a lot of money in a hurry for things you don't need or may never use.

 

Practice on some easy, low power targets. We're well into planet season, the Moon, Orion's on the rise. focus on the same targets until you're comfortable with your set-up and operation. Then if you're unhappy, help yourself to something better.

[Inkie]

I have been in the hobby long enough to have accepted that mediocre/lightweight mounts AND tripods are just going to suck the verve and enjoyment out of me.  As many on this site say, when advising those asking how to improve their experience, the one item of absolute prime importance is the mounting system, with the optical tube assembly and eyepieces only second.  And for me, that is right on the money.  A pier is best for vibrations and movement, but it's fixed in one spot...forever.  And that means so is the scope.  Or, a heavy tripod, well engineered, with a mount in the $900-$3000 range, and yes that covers a lot of ground, will set you up for years of good service and great viewing. You can purchase a better/bigger/smaller/lighter/heavier/longer/shorter scope in the future when you absolutely must have one.  Same with the eyepieces. 

[Siggy6]

I have been in the hobby long enough to have accepted that mediocre/lightweight mounts AND tripods are just going to suck the verve and enjoyment out of me. As many on this site say, when advising those asking how to improve their experience, the one item of absolute prime importance is the mounting system, with the optical tube assembly and eyepieces only second. And for me, that is right on the money. A pier is best for vibrations and movement, but it's fixed in one spot...forever. And that means so is the scope. Or, a heavy tripod, well engineered, with a mount in the $900-$3000 range, and yes that covers a lot of ground, will set you up for years of good service and great viewing. You can purchase a better/bigger/smaller/lighter/heavier/longer/shorter scope in the future when you absolutely must have one. Same with the eyepieces.

[gnowellsct]

As to equatorial mounts. They are not really a good match for visual use with newtonians because they move in a way that will have the eyepiece pointed all over the place. So you have to continually rotate the tube to keep the eyepiece pointed towards you.

This is a fair point and one of the reasons I unloaded my 10-in f/6 Newtonian.

Parallax makes rotating rings that substantially reduce the inconvenience of this aspect of using a Newtonian.

I find myself thinking about The Takahashi f/2.8 180 mm Newtonian for visual use. For sure if I got one I would get the parallax rotating rings.

In this case the rotating rings would cost more than the entire telescope. I love equatorial mounts but this is an example of why I think they are poor idea in a starter system. Actually though this Mount would do better with a 5 inch SCT or Mak or a refractor. These instruments are shorter and would ride better on the starter German equatorial.

Also on these non-Newtonian designs the diagonal at the back rotates so you don't need to worry about rotating the whole tube.

I'm not sure there are any equatorial mounts worth using that cost less than one or $2,000. But I confess I'm not out there sampling them all.

Greg N

[vtornado]

I'm not sure there are any equatorial mounts worth using that cost less than one or $2,000. But I confess I'm not out there sampling them all.  -- wow you just blew out most of the folks from this hobby.

 

I am using a CG4 and Orion Skyview Pro.  Like any mount, don't over load them.

CG4 -- 6 inch SCT, 100mm frac,  6 inch f/5 newt.

CG5 -- 8 inch SCT?  120mm frac, 6 inch f/6 newt?   8 inch f/5 newt X

  

? means I don't have experience but am extrapolating.

X means I have tried this and didn't really like it.

Edited by vtornado, 25 September 2023 - 03:13 PM.

[star acres]

My answer is already pictured but not explained. If I had an equatorial or any tall tripod, I'd put the legs short to squash the wobble. I'd also get used to my mount and make the best of it.

[Anony]

My answer is already pictured but not explained. If I had an equatorial or any tall tripod, I'd put the legs short to squash the wobble. I'd also get used to my mount and make the best of it.

That's what I tend to do as well.

 

Keep the legs short, tighten all bolts, add a bit of weight if needed, and if the OP hasn't already tried it, use the mount in AZ mode:

 

https://www.cloudyni...-and-more-r3379

 

I believe the scope already comes with rings, so scope positioning shouldn't be an issue. Using in EQ on an iffy mount would pose a problem finding targets, but in AZ it should be okay-ish (I hope) with an app like sky safari.

Edited by Anony, 25 September 2023 - 04:14 PM.

[KWB]

I'm not sure there are any equatorial mounts worth using that cost less than one or $2,000. But I confess I'm not out there sampling them all.  -- wow you just blew out most of the folks from this hobby.

 

I am using a CG4 and Orion Skyview Pro.  Like any mount, don't over load them.

 

 

Even though I'm not a real fan of using an EQ mount in the alt/az mode, those mounts are more than capable of very solidly supporting the ST 130 reflector of Siggy6, the OP. I would consider the Skyview Pro as almost extreme overkill supporting my 102mm F/7 refractor.

 

$2,000 and above class EQ mounts tend to be extremely heavy and defeat the purpose of what I consider a grab and go setup. I prefer my mount/tripod combination to weigh less than 20 pounds. Very different ways for different observers.

Edited by KWB, 25 September 2023 - 04:45 PM.

[xiando]

We 130SLT owners often hang a weight (a spare barbell weight, etc) from the center post or tray to add a little more mass to the tripod. I toyed with the idea of using one of those screw in dog leash mounts and a bungy to the same purpose but never actually tried it. Also, keeping the legs low helps with stability. Not so practical if you're observing while standing, but if observing while seated or when imaging, it can be practical.

 

Eventually I went the next step and purchased an old Meade field tripod ($75), and then made a custom holder and plattern to mount to the tripod head, using an extra "cup" from the tripod for an old 80SLT refractor that I purchased on Ebay (another ~$75) and some 1/4" aluminum plate (~$15). Depending on budget and skills, that might be a way to go unless you have the money to follow all the upselling "advise" I see above my post. granted, prices are probably a little higher after ~10 years, but...

 

Anyway, I'd see how the hanging weight does for you before emptying your wallet. Yours is an Orion and mine a Celestron 130SLT, but it's basically the same game. "An affordable starter scope: Golly fellows, how do I improve it...?"

Edited by xiando, 25 September 2023 - 04:55 PM.