14 replies to this topic

[T-rav82]

Hi there and thanks for letting me in! I have read many threads and looked at many questions but the time has come to ask my own. Hopefully I am in the right place as my topic covers a few things...

I have a few questions regarding upgrading my mount/tripod and possibly my scope.

I am a beginner and own a Skywatcher Starquest 130p (reflector) with manual eq mount, aluminium tripod.

This is proving a useful instrument for learning about the skies and I have been amazed to actually even get a glimpse of my first Nebula, even from light polluted London.

I have invested in some good eyepieces and seen the difference good equipment makes.

The scope I have is itself ok for my skill/current needs. Easy to move about too. However, the tripod moves to much and the image takes over 10 sec to stabilise.

I would like advice on what kind of mount to but bearing in mind a few considerations:

 

Eventually I would like to do AP and do not want to spend money the money twice when the time comes

 

I am interested particularly in DSO's and eventually want to get a scope with a bigger aperture for visual (200mm?)

 

1-I have considered buying a cheap but more stable steel alt az mount to sort out th problem now

2-Getting a more expensive eq mount capable of ap (I see this involves perhaps going eq5 although most people say they eventually get an heq5, I see cost begin to go up easily...)

3-Getting a 8" dob like Stellalyra (GSO) and worrying about ap later (I could use the Starquest as a travel scope)

ds version.

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter and would also like to as what people think of the Skywatcher 200p DS.

I understand many urge people to keep visual and ap separate but others also recommend this as a good compromise. The only problem I have seen is that this realistically requires a much better mount than the one it usually ships with.

Thanks for reading and look forward to replies!

 

[Inkie]

Welcome!

 

As you can now appreciate, it isn't an exaggeration when many of us insist, quite vehemently, that the mount is everything.  You can upgrade eyepieces and accessories, even the optical tube and its various designs, as you go.  But, with a rickety tripod or mount, you have almost no joy.  So, if/when you figure out where you're going, AND HAVE a plan of some kind that has some solid learning behind it, your decision to get a specified mount will follow naturally.  If  you replace what you have with something 'better', even just more stable, what will it cost, and can you justify this intermediate step knowing that within a few months you'll be ready for a much finer mount to help you to achieve your aims?  It's a serious question.  An intermediate tripod and mount might set you back almost $500, but that could comprise a chunk of a $1500 mount with much finer engineering and materials.  Just a thought. 

 

I would be interested in your rationale over your original purchase; why not a Dobsonian, say an 8"?  Was it the mount?

 

I realize the thought of ponying up a couple of thousand dollars, maybe less, on a good quality mount seems like buying the farm at this point in your introduction.  Maybe it's simply too much or too daunting...you're just not comfortable with that at the moment.  Okay, figure out how to improve what you have, and develop your observing 'eye' and knowledge of the dark skies for a few months.  At some point, you'll want to invest much more heavily, and that would be when you acknowledge the debt we all pay, and the honor, that goes into a really first class mount and mounting pier or tripod.  They cost, and for good reason.  You want fine views, not disappointing ones through a $3000 scope. Or even with the nice, more modest, scope you're currently using. 

 

[Edit- afterthought]: Don't overlook the goods being sold and traded in the Classified section located in the black marquee at the top of the pages here.

Edited by Inkie, 26 September 2023 - 01:24 AM.

[T-rav82]

I agree with your comments about the mount and I think I would rather wait until I build up a bitkKnowledge . Improving the moon now will indeed just take a chunk out of a better mount I buy further down the line.
I was going for the 8” dob and slightly put off by the size and was directed to what I purchased , wish I had gone for it but that is fine, it’s still very portable scope and relatively speaking a good dob is cheap relative to the returns. I will have a think.
Thanks for replying, any thoughts on the specific models mentioned?

[star acres]

There is not enough difference between an AZ and a EQ mount. Eq is just a bit clunky, but you can do the one knob swing across the sky. Try shortening your legs, I mean your tripod legs all the way and take a short seat. Some of your wobble is possibly your mechanism. If astro is too expensive, look up some of those innovators who took a webcam and turned it into an astronomy webcam. Don't forget there's software, so you might want to find an old Dell XP laptop instead of wrestling with Windows 10-11. That's a nice telescope.

Edited by star acres, 26 September 2023 - 07:07 AM.

[T-rav82]

Nice idea, I hadn't thought about shortening the legs. Pretty obvious really....Will look inti the webcam business!

[SeattleScott]

Nice idea, I hadn't thought about shortening the legs. Pretty obvious really....Will look inti the webcam business!

There is a forum for EAA which is basically the “webcam business.” It is easier and cheaper to enter into EAA with an 8” scope than do traditional long exposure AP with an 8” scope. You can do EAA with an 8” scope on a HEQ5. Or you can do AP with a 3” scope on a HEQ5. Visual is much better with 8” than 3” so check out the EAA forum. It can also be a bridge to AP, or a way to evaluate interest in AP, as you gain understanding of the issues (and money and time) involved with AP. Granted the images are not in the same class as AP. EAA is more about gaining more detail to observe a target. AP is more of an art form about producing the prettiest pictures.

Not extending tripod and using a chair isn’t a bad idea to improve stability, but a newt on a gem doesn’t always accommodate that. It doesn’t cost anything to try but you may find it isn’t a real solution to your problem.

An 8” SCT on a medium duty EQ mount is a fine visual/EAA scope. And some EQ mounts have the option of tracking only so you could starhop for visual if you prefer that. Of course an 8” Dob will go a bit wider and will be a lot cheaper, and lighter, so there is that.

[Anony]

Nice idea, I hadn't thought about shortening the legs. Pretty obvious really....Will look inti the webcam business!

And try it in AZ mode if you haven't already --

 

https://www.cloudyni...-and-more-r3379

 

You can hang some weight from the tripod as well.

 

10 seconds dampening is insane though. 4-5 seconds is bad .... should really be no more than 2-3 seconds at worst.

[dmgriff]

I do not know anything about the used market in the UK, but, maybe you can find a decent gem that will suit your needs a short drive away from you at a reasonable price.

 

Good viewing,

 

Dave

[vtornado]

 

I have a few questions regarding upgrading my mount/tripod and possibly my scope.

I am a beginner and own a Skywatcher Starquest 130p (reflector) with manual eq mount, aluminium tripod.

This is proving a useful instrument for learning about the skies and I have been amazed to actually even get a glimpse of my first Nebula, even from light polluted London.

 

 

 

I have invested in some good eyepieces and seen the difference good equipment makes.

The scope I have is itself ok for my skill/current needs. Easy to move about too. However, the tripod moves to much and the image takes over 10 sec to stabilise.

 

Use the legs folded in.  A weight on the eyepiece tray may help.  make sure the scope is balanced in both axis.   anti-vibration pads may help.  If possible replacing the legs with wooden legs will help.  If this scope has a dovetail bolted to the tube, getting actual tube rings may help.  In the US A celestron CG4 would be proper for this scope.  I think that is a EQ3 in the U.K.

 

Eventually I would like to do AP and do not want to spend money the money twice when the time comes

 

I am interested particularly in DSO's and eventually want to get a scope with a bigger aperture for visual (200mm?)

 

1-I have considered buying a cheap but more stable steel alt az mount to sort out th problem now

2-Getting a more expensive eq mount capable of ap (I see this involves perhaps going eq5 although most people say they eventually get an heq5, I see cost begin to go up easily...)

3-Getting a 8" dob like Stellalyra (GSO) and worrying about ap later (I could use the Starquest as a travel scope)

ds version.

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter and would also like to as what people think of the Skywatcher 200p DS.

 

Do you mean the newtion non-dob version on an EQ mount?  I would not recommend this at all.  I had this and sold it.  This will be a 70-80 lb rig.  3 trips to setup, and 3 trips to take down.  I you have to move the rig, to avoid trees it is not possible.  Large newts on a gem require rotating rings.   Picture taking is about time and f ratio, aperture not so much.

 

 

Edited by vtornado, 26 September 2023 - 12:30 PM.

[T-rav82]

Thanks all for you comments, some useful ideas on how to possibly sort out the problem without spending money. Also, many of my suspicions have been confirmed as I did read as many threads as I could find on the various subjects covered.  I particularly like the idea of stabilising my current scope and perhaps looking at the forum on EAA to get some ideas. As expected though, it seems like most people advise on trying to keep visual and AP separate.

I mentioned the Skywatcher 200 ds as this edition (ds) in the uk has been a scope that I have come across as  something that is suited to both visual and AP but I have noticed the problems people talk about regarding size and weight. It seems that for it to work one needs a top quality mount that can handle a 10kg+ pay load. Correct me if I am wrong but at this point, one can save money and get better quality by getting to scopes (eg a reflector on a dob and something smaller on a gem for AP)

I also note that for the price of a good mount I could get an 8" dob with much bigger aperture than I currently have.

Much appreciated

[Echolight]

I use my 130 f5 on an Orion Versago II. Which is the same as a Skywatcher AZ4.

Except the Orion came with aluminum legs.

 

Just recently I put some Vixen thick hardwood legs under it. Short ones made for newtonians. With a metal tray that bolts to the spreader. Now it is very sturdy.

If you give the tube a rap, it settles in about a second. But it's rock solid while focusing.

Actually, I have it out tonight.

As you can see, it's fairly low. But the eyepiece is up top. And I have a short chair.

 

By the way, I bought all this stuff used and saved a bundle.

So that's what I'd suggest.

Shop the used market. And be patient. But vigilant.

 

An AZ5 or Vixen Porta II should be about equal to the AZ4.

The various brandings of the GSO are probably the sturdiest in this class of mount. Although they haven't been in production recently.

And of course if you stumble across a deal on a SkyTee 2 or similar T-mount, you'd have something that would hold a bigger scope if you were inclined. But these are probably a little heavier.

Edited by Echolight, 26 September 2023 - 09:56 PM.

[Echolight]

You might consider making some wood legs from common lumber..., to replace the thin aluminum legs.

 

Here's one example of non adjustable wood legs, for a head similar to yours, made by a CN member.

https://www.cloudyni...ign/?p=10134889

A very simple design.

 

There's dozens of threads on the subject in the ATM/DIY forum.

https://www.cloudyni...-and-diy-forum/

 

The "Show us your pipe mount" thread is interesting to see what people come up with.

https://www.cloudyni...our-pipe-mount/

Tripods made out of crutches. All kinds of ideas.

[T-rav82]

I use my 130 f5 on an Orion Versago II. Which is the same as a Skywatcher AZ4.
Except the Orion came with aluminum legs.

Just recently I put some Vixen thick hardwood legs under it. Short ones made for newtonians. With a metal tray that bolts to the spreader. Now it is very sturdy.
If you give the tube a rap, it settles in about a second. But it's rock solid while focusing.
Actually, I have it out tonight.
As you can see, it's fairly low. But the eyepiece is up top. And I have a short chair.
IMG_20230926_214939057~4.jpg

By the way, I bought all this stuff used and saved a bundle.
So that's what I'd suggest.
Shop the used market. And be patient. But vigilant.

An AZ5 or Vixen Porta II should be about equal to the AZ4.
The various brandings of the GSO are probably the sturdiest in this class of mount. Although they haven't been in production recently.
And of course if you stumble across a deal on a SkyTee 2 or similar T-mount, you'd have something that would hold a bigger scope if you were inclined. But these are probably a little heavier.

[T-rav82]

I use my 130 f5 on an Orion Versago II. Which is the same as a Skywatcher AZ4.
Except the Orion came with aluminum legs.

Just recently I put some Vixen thick hardwood legs under it. Short ones made for newtonians. With a metal tray that bolts to the spreader. Now it is very sturdy.
If you give the tube a rap, it settles in about a second. But it's rock solid while focusing.
Actually, I have it out tonight.
As you can see, it's fairly low. But the eyepiece is up top. And I have a short chair.
IMG_20230926_214939057~4.jpg

By the way, I bought all this stuff used and saved a bundle.
So that's what I'd suggest.
Shop the used market. And be patient. But vigilant.

An AZ5 or Vixen Porta II should be about equal to the AZ4.
The various brandings of the GSO are probably the sturdiest in this class of mount. Although they haven't been in production recently.
And of course if you stumble across a deal on a SkyTee 2 or similar T-mount, you'd have something that would hold a bigger scope if you were inclined. But these are probably a little heavier.

[T-rav82]

Thanks, indeed someone recommended the az4 to me, second hand should be cheap but need patience. In the meantime hopefully shortening the legs and a chair hopefully will do the trick but has been cloudy here in London but let’s see. In some ways I would rather modify what I have and save for a dob so diy solutions are helpful , thanks