13 replies to this topic

[UnityLover]

With the poor transparency, the moon next to saturn, and our pretty sucky seeing, and bortle 7 with immense glare, I was able to see saturn (looks like a compass/sea urchin), titan, rhea, glimpse tethys, and see a random 10th magnitude star. Both rhea, tethys, and the 10th magnitude star were fleeting and dim. Could I see more moons with better transparency? Stellarium shows a bunch under 11th magnitude. If I can see a 11th magnitude galaxy, I should be able to easily see these moons from a darker location, right?

[FCABARLE]

I wish I could understand what you are talking about. What is a bortle 7? How many magnitudes are there and how can I tell if I see one?  What is the chart depict? (the one with the blue, orange, red and white squares with numbers above them. I'm new, very new to astronomy and am unable to speak the language yet.

[Dave Mitsky]

I wish I could understand what you are talking about. What is a bortle 7? How many magnitudes are there and how can I tell if I see one?  What is the chart depict? (the one with the blue, orange, red and white squares with numbers above them. I'm new, very new to astronomy and am unable to speak the language yet.

The stellar magnitude system is explained at https://earthsky.org...llar-magnitude/ and https://skyandtelesc...gnitude-system/

[Dave Mitsky]

I wish I could understand what you are talking about. What is a bortle 7? How many magnitudes are there and how can I tell if I see one?  What is the chart depict? (the one with the blue, orange, red and white squares with numbers above them. I'm new, very new to astronomy and am unable to speak the language yet.

The chart in UnityLover's signature section is from the Clear Outside astronomy weather forecast website.

 

https://clearoutside...st/40.65/-73.26

[Dave Mitsky]

You may find some of the information on astronomy, amateur astronomy, and observing presented in my post (#22) at https://www.cloudyni...mers/?p=5184287 useful, FCABARLE. There are sections on various books, observing guides, star-hopping, stellar atlases, planispheres, planetarium programs, astronomy apps, deep-sky object observing, lists of worthwhile celestial objects to observe, binocular astronomy, urban astronomy, and other related topics.

[maroubra_boy]

UnityLover,

A darker sky won't really help here. Better transparency, yes.

Because Saturn is so bright, going darker is not important. Transparency means a cleaner, clearer sky which here will help not only with seeing faint moons but more, even sharper detail on Saturn.

The thing here is you are also battling the glare of Saturn. If these faint satellites are close to the planet you will need a couple of tricks. One is averted vision (just as you would use with DSO's) & to try to put Saturn just outside of the field of view there by reducing the majority of the glare. Another trick along the same line as putting Saturn just outside of the FOV is installing an "occulting bar" in an eyepiece. This same trick is used to pick out Mars' two satellites:

CN link -> https://www.cloudyni...g-bar-eyepiece/

Easy to make. If you would like to make one for yourself I would suggest using a short focal length plossl eyepiece. Made one myself & spied out Phobos for the first time this way.

Oh, be persistent & patient. It will test you.

Alex.

Edited by maroubra_boy, 27 September 2023 - 04:32 AM.

[Tony Flanders]

With the poor transparency, the moon next to saturn, and our pretty sucky seeing, and bortle 7 with immense glare, I was able to see saturn (looks like a compass/sea urchin), titan, rhea, glimpse tethys, and see a random 10th magnitude star. Both rhea, tethys, and the 10th magnitude star were fleeting and dim. Could I see more moons with better transparency? Stellarium shows a bunch under 11th magnitude. If I can see a 11th magnitude galaxy, I should be able to easily see these moons from a darker location, right?

Sure. Titan, of course, is visible in binoculars if you know where to look. And it's a rare night that I can't see Rhea even in my 70-mm refractor. Tethys and Dione are generally visible, too; a lot depends on just how they're placed with respect to the planet. They're quite obvious at maximum elongation, but they can be tricky to spot when they're near the planet's disk or (even worse) near the rings. And they can sometimes be hard to spot when they're hiding in Saturn's diffraction spikes, too.

 

It's extremely helpful -- pretty much necessary, in fact -- to have some kind of app that will show you exactly where the moons are. Without that, you have no way to know if some random blip of light is one of Saturn's moons or a 10th-magnitude star.

 

As Maroubra Boy says above, light pollution is almost irrelevant in this case, because the dominant source of light pollution when observing Saturn's moons is Saturn itself.

 

Seeing Iapetus, Enceladus, or the fainter moons with a 130-mm scope isn't completely out of the question, but it would be much, much tougher than the brightest four.

[UnityLover]

I used stellarium to see where the moons were. I do have a 10mm eyepiece that I dont use, could put a bar in that, but id rather not, as im planning to sell this scope next year in pursuit of an 8 inch

[UnityLover]

I wish I could understand what you are talking about. What is a bortle 7? How many magnitudes are there and how can I tell if I see one?  What is the chart depict? (the one with the blue, orange, red and white squares with numbers above them. I'm new, very new to astronomy and am unable to speak the language yet.

Bortle is a darkness indication, for skies. Magnitudes are brightness, like for the sun, moon, stars, DSOs, planets, etc. My chart is a weather forecast. numbers mean hours. Red means Clouds, green means clear, orange means mixed.

[rgk901]

for the 'bar' just slide some black construction paper where you need to between eye and eyepice.

and as you have been doing, just keep looking, maybe find the most promising moon locations on app and give those times the most effort.

it's all great fun no matter what!

[Minuam]

I have seen four moons(Titan, Rhea, Tethys and Dione) but I have not done much observing.
Many times, moons appear in averted vision and once I know where they are than I can see them with direct vision. Sometimes Tethys and Dione are visible OFF and ON.
Sometimes, the third brightest moon – Tethys is more difficult when it is close to the Saturn. Dione is faintest of the four.

I have no luck with Enceladus and Lapetus. Mimas(mag 13.2) is likely for bigger aperture. Regarding Phoebe and Hyperion, I can just forget about them.
Few weeks ago, MR Redbetter saw 9 moons. From his post, it seems that Saturn is much better placed this year for the observation and much much better to observe before it goes to Meridian.

 

[Dave Mitsky]

The Bortle scale is explained at https://skyandtelesc...dark-sky-scale/

It's also related to a light pollution map at https://www.cleardar...lution_map.html

Keep in mind the fact that the Bortle scale is not fixed for a given location.  Local conditions such as poor transparency can lower or raise the Bortle ranking somewhat on a given night.

[Cavs56]

Thanks for everyone for the information. I didn’t know my Star Walk 2 app would show and name Saturn’s moons. I took my C8 out last night and was able to see five. It was not the best night for seeing. I am in a very light polluted suburb. I judge how clear the sky is if I can see all four stars of Lyra and how andromeda looks is 12x binoculars. I believe I have seen 6 on a better night but I didn’t know how to check. Saturn was beautiful as always. 220x was very good 330x was ok 400+ was a no go.

[MellonLake]

Don't give up, I have been trying to see Mimas for the last 4 years with no luck, it hugs the rings and planet so close it is hard to pick out. Still going to try though. I have seen Iapetus and Enceladus though (in the 16") on great transparency and good still skies. Dione, Thethys, Rhea and Titin are usually pretty easy if they are positioned further away from Saturn, even in the 10".