103 replies to this topic

[Starman1]

I'll be fair.  It was well wrapped and cushioned.  Still, not enough to justify $16.

This is a common comment, yet it doesn't reflect current shipping rates.

To be fair, the $16 is probably shipping + handling to help pay for the person who picks and packs the shipment.

But even if it is just for postage, I've noticed that post office is now applying a "Holiday Surcharge" to all packages.

The cost to ship a 2 ounce flat rate package is now $11.40, and a 1 pound package is about $15.96.

The quality of packing doesn't change the shipping costs, of course.

[StanH]

No response back today from shop at sky.  I used the aas.org email address yesterday.

 

Attached are photos.  The damage is just cosmetic, but still that's no excuse for the poor packaging.  The damage to A Discovery of Modern Star Names looks worse than the photo suggests.  However, I think that damage can flatten out fairly well.  The top corner pages of Annals can also probably be flattened out, but that corner of the cover is another story as there is also damage to the lamination.

 

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

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[Tim Hager]

Am I unusual in that I am not buying these for investment and I appreciate the work that the authors put in?  If I can read them, I'm happy.  Yes, the packing could be better but why are you buying these?  I enjoy reading them.  If there's a wrinkle or crease, I don't care. Some comments here strike me as nitpicky whining.  The cost is way less than a mid-range eyepiece.  

 

Also remember that the authors have nothing to do with the shipping and packing of these volumes. Appreciate all of their creative work.

[AstroVPK]

So there's color now... should we hold our collective breaths for 2nd editions/reissues of the previous volumes?

[rockethead26]

Am I unusual in that I am not buying these for investment and I appreciate the work that the authors put in?  If I can read them, I'm happy.  Yes, the packing could be better but why are you buying these?  I enjoy reading them.  If there's a wrinkle or crease, I don't care. Some comments here strike me as nitpicky whining.  The cost is way less than a mid-range eyepiece.  

 

Also remember that the authors have nothing to do with the shipping and packing of these volumes. Appreciate all of their creative work.

I expect my books from Shop at Sky to arrive looking like every other bookseller's does, like I bought it off a shelf. I completely disagree with your "settle" attitude. Whatever the product, it should be shipped properly to prevent damage. I would send Stan's books back. I don't accept record albums or anything else that provides entertainment and/or educational content that arrives as damaged as Stan's.

Edited by rockethead26, 13 December 2023 - 07:36 PM.

[StanH]

FYI, I worked for about 17 years in the printing industry - specifically book printers.  We printed both for publishers and directly for authors.  How the books I received were packaged would be considered unacceptable.  Though paper and shipping costs have gone up considerably since then it shouldn't take much effort or cost to secure the books better in the packaging.  Not only does it look bad for the publisher, it looks bad for the author even if they had nothing to do with the shipment.  I was hesitant to post here because of the latter as I don't know if he sees these pages.  Yet the author has a right to know if the publisher they have used lives up to the expected quality.  It doesn't end once the book is printed and bound.

Edited by StanH, 13 December 2023 - 08:19 PM.

[turtle86]

I expect my books from Shop at Sky to arrive looking like every other bookseller's does, like I bought it off a shelf. I completely disagree with your "settle" attitude. Whatever the product, it should be shipped properly to prevent damage. I would send Stan's books back. I don't accept record albums or anything else that provides entertainment and/or educational content that arrives as damaged as Stan's.

 

That's a completely reasonable expectation. Most booksellers online are able to pack books so that they don't arrive mangled like Stan's Annals book.  

 

I sure miss the days when you could order directly from WB:  the shipping was almost free and the packaging was bulletproof. 

Edited by turtle86, 13 December 2023 - 08:20 PM.

[BwanaBob]

No response back today from shop at sky.  I used the aas.org email address yesterday.

 

Attached are photos.  The damage is just cosmetic, but still that's no excuse for the poor packaging.  The damage to A Discovery of Modern Star Names looks worse than the photo suggests.  However, I think that damage can flatten out fairly well.  The top corner pages of Annals can also probably be flattened out, but that corner of the cover is another story as there is also damage to the lamination.

Wow, this looks like the outer packaging I received but the inside is a different story.  I had the one book triply wrapped in some sort of cushioned paper.  Plus it was tape wrapped at the seam.  Maybe I shouldn't have complained about the price; at least it came in pristine condition.

 

But seriously, they need consistency.  Was the person prepping StanH's order bust ****ting with someone and they skipped the wrapping step?  Or was the person working at 2am and had no supervision over their work quality?

[Starman1]

My copy was wrapped in brown wrapping paper--about 3 layers thick.

The outer package was a corrugated cardboard sleeve.

[helpwanted]

Mine was shrink wrapped in a cardboard type of package, all was good

[StanH]

Hopefully, I will be the only one who received a copy with such damage and it was a one time goof-up by someone not adding protective wrapping.

 

However, after two emails and also contacting Show at Sky through their website, there has been no response.  Maybe there's some issue with their system that they are not receiving them.  I thought there would be time to call their customer service line earlier today as I took off work to take my mother to a doctor appointment, but it ran longer than expected and I needed to get back to work.

 

I haven't even started reading the books or attempting to smooth out the damage.  This weekend I probably will go ahead and start trying to get the corners of the pages to straighten out.  If only the cover damage to Annals could have been to the back cover, then it wouldn't be as noticeable because of the white background.  The peeling lamination will probably only get worse with time.

 

The damage is fortunately cosmetic.  Even though back when I was in the industry, this type of damage on shipment would be unacceptable, I'm to the point of not demanding a replacement.  At the least, Shop at Sky should offer a discount for my next purchase.  I plan to continue buying this series as long as I can.  The content of each of the prior volumes has been exceptional.  This is one of the few enjoyments in astronomy I have these days due to chronic health issues and all the lights now shining into my backyard.

[Mark Gingrich]

Mine was shrink wrapped in a cardboard type of package, all was good

Shrink wrapped?  Well, that explains why the handling charge is so expensive: They've hired professional psychiatrists to package the parcels!  

[desertstars]

Shrink wrapped?  Well, that explains why the handling charge is so expensive: They've hired professional psychiatrists to package the parcels!  

[yuzameh]

I know in the old days of book shops I'd ensure I picked the nicest copy off the shelves and acerbically chastise the staff at the till if they gratuitously manhandled it to find the price and wrap it.

 

"Oi, I've just gone of my way to get a decent copy off the shelf"!

 

I think I only did a "you can keep that then" and walked out once.

 

It's the same old principle more than anything, based on seller's attitude.  If I paid 'em a mere ten pence less than the cover price they'd go ape, whereas I'm supposed to accept a damaged product at full price because they can't train their staff?  Nope.  Send it back, report 'em to consumer associations or trades bodies, etc, etc.  The only way a business ever pulls it socks up is if it costs more to solve things or get out of trouble than it does to fix what is wrong and avoid such things.

[sanbai]

Everyone has a its own threshold on what's acceptable. I'm more likely to accept a cosmetic damage than my wife. In a recent trip to NY I bought a book of photographs of NY by a recognized photographer. It was the last one of thenice, little independent store. She was reluctant because of a small "damage", but I walked out of the store happily with the book.

My AoDS vol 9 and 10 came in a carboar envelop with the books side by side rather than stacked. One was wraped in a thin plastic, the other one not. There was no damage, but I wonder what could had happened if we had had a rainstorm before I arrived home (it was left in the porch... ok for a eegular rain, but not so if windy).

Good luck wit SaS. The have answered my emails this year. Note that Igor, the guy who answer them, may be now on vacations. 'Tis the season.

[faackanders2]

Just ordered.  Glad to see these notices on CN, but I miss the pre-publication notices from Willmann-Bell.

and the lower pre-sale price

[faackanders2]

Just ordered.  Glad to see these notices on CN, but I miss the pre-publication notices from Willmann-Bell.

and the lower pre-sale price

[Pat Rochford]

Received my copy yesterday ... it arrived in a padded envelope.  The thickness of the padding measured 3mm.

 

The corners are not bent but the edges of the upper and right side of the cover have had the black background of the Witch Head Nebula rubbed off. 

 

Total time from the day it was shipped (Wisconsin) to the day I received it (Alabama) was seven days.

 

So, not the end of the world ... but nothing to get excited about either.  The price of shipping/handling (a 25 cent envelope and a week to get here) doesn't really represent good value for what I paid, in my opinion.

 

The book itself is outstanding, as are all in the series so far.  Can't wait for #11.    

[Pat Rochford]

Has anyone else noticed the physical difference between Volume 10 to those previous?  Volume 9 is 1 1/8" thick with 423 pages, while Volume 10 is only 3/4" thick with considerably more pages at 470.

 

The font size in Volume 10 might be slightly smaller, but I can't tell with any certainty with my aging eyes.  But the thickness of the paper is definitely less than previous volumes.  On the good side, #10 will lay open flat much easier, freeing up one hand to keep it open.  On the other hand, I wonder if these thin pages will be more prone to tearing over time?

 

I'm guessing this is a cost saving measure on the part of the publisher, printer or both. Anyone have other thoughts on the matter?  

[lambdaw098]

I've noticed this as well. I compared my copy of Volume 10 with Volume 8 (I don't currently have 9) and despite having more pages than 8 it is only about half as thick. Either cost saving, or since there is an effort to fit more into each volume, an attempt to make each volume more compact and not as unwieldy. 

 

I treat all of these with kid gloves, trying to handle them as delicately as possible when reading so as to avoid undue stress on the bindings. Hopefully any changes they've made won't tend to compromise the physical integrity of the books.

[BrentKnight]

I much prefer the different paper type.  The book is so much easier to handle.  I don't worry anymore about cracking the spine.

[sanbai]

The authors said in their Facebook page that the paper was supposed to be the same, but the result indeed is different. I prefer the paper in Vol 10, even if it's thinner.

[Lee.S]

I purchase these volumes to use. first I note all the RA/DEC addresses of my multiple charts ,atlases ,maps. then I on the 1st read I note on a note book of all the acronyms and page numbers due to short memory .I cross reference the volumes to other books such as Robert Burnham ,Sue French , Richard Perry ,etc. Hope the author's  will not disapprove.

 

Regards,

clear sky's a good reading,

 

Lee S.

[BrentKnight]

I purchase these volumes to use. first I note all the RA/DEC addresses of my multiple charts ,atlases ,maps. then I on the 1st read I note on a note book of all the acronyms and page numbers due to short memory .I cross reference the volumes to other books such as Robert Burnham ,Sue French , Richard Perry ,etc. Hope the author's will not disapprove.

Regards,
clear sky's a good reading,

Lee S.

I usually do something similar when I create observing lists in SkyTools. Any list I make from a book is then attached to the objects in SkyTools along with any observation notes I've made.

Didn't think to do this for Annals, but I will now...

[StanH]

My copy along with A Dictionary of Modern Star Names came in yesterday after tracking said it was to be here on December 8 then changed to December 9.  Unfortunately, the two books were loose in packaging that was too long with without any wrapping.  Both sustained significant damage to the top outside corner with the corner of the front cover for Annals essentially crushed.  Damage goes into several pages in that corner looking like dog ears.  For Dictionary the outside bottom corner is bent all the way through.  I emailed Shop at Sky yesterday, but only got an automated or form letter email about two minutes after I sent it.  There was nothing today.  I emailed another address after getting home from work today.  Hopefully, tomorrow they will respond.

 

On the other hand, today, I got in my proof copy of my reworked first volume on supernovae images and photometry which I first had self-published in 2012, but this past year did a significant rewrite.  Lulu.com packaged it well and it came out perfect.  Why can't Shop at Sky do the same?

Update.  Shop at Sky finally responded on January 9 with the odd statement "please inform your order number".  I got out the order sheet that came with the order and and spoke to the order number, but nothing happened.     I assume they meant to confirm my order number, which I add already mentioned through the various correspondences each time, so I emailed back with that information along with the images of the damage again.  I also stated I'm not looking for a replacement now, but requested there should be at least a some discount on a future order.  Here it is more than a week with no further response.  I just don't understand this.

 

After delaying reading Annals V10 because of the damage and waiting for a response that never came in a timely manner, I finally got around to reading it.  As per each of the prior volumes, it was well written with lots of interesting information.  It was curious reading about the galaxies in Fornax and the mention of supernovae while at the time at least two currently had supernovae - NGC 1097 and NGC 922.