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Filters Filters Filters? so many options, help a newbie to choose

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#1 CTerry

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 12:29 PM

Hopefully i dont get too much hate for posting this as im still learning.  Ive been looking on here for a good while now trying to find info to help me decide, but it seems like the more i find the more confused i get.

 

Setup is an AT80EDT with an Asi533mc (uncooled unfortunately) and my skys are crappy B7 (whish is most likely the biggest issue).  tracking and guiding and all that jazz are fine.  the scope and camera operate just fine, i just want to make the faint fuzzies less faint and fuzzy. I only use this camera to shoot with and i dont do any RGB or narrowband so i need something that will go well with my 533mc.

 

All i want is a filter that will help make the deep sky pop a bit better.  recently tried the elephant trunk nebula and wizard and even after 2 hours of each i could barely make out any details. it was just a crazy star field image. It could totally be my camera settings as well. Ive never shot these targets before and i was just trying them out. I did 30s exp at 0 gain cause i didnt want to blow out my stars.  I know big long exp and dozens of hours is always the answer but i didnt have that kinda time and if thats the problem then thats fine, i will try again another night. 

 

Ive been looking at some affordable (svbony & astronomiks) UHC and CLS options ($50-60 for a filter seems ok) but it seems like they are basically the same thing.  Id rather not go with the spendy options like L-Pro and L-enhance cause its just not worth the money to me honestly.

 

so yea, can anyone help me choose??

 

thanks

 


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#2 DirtyRod

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 12:39 PM

The target will determine the kind of filter and there is no one deep sky filter.

 

Short and sweet, emission nebula generally need a tri or dual-band filter which passes Ha, Oiii, and Sii. I use the L-Enhance, L-Extreme, and L-Ultimate filters. Probably why your Elephant Trunk and Wizard didn't come out like you wanted. There are a ton on the market and lots of debates over which is better. 

 

Galaxies, star clusters, and reflection/planetary nebulae are best imaged through something that allows the entire spectrum through. Generally, an IR-Cut is used to prevent star bloat however you can use a high contrast or light pollution filter. The effectiveness of a light pollution filter really depends on your particular environment. If you have lots of sodium streetlights then a LP filter will probably work well. If it's mostly LED lights in your area, then you may not see much improvement from a LP filter. 


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#3 Skysmacker

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 01:26 PM

Agree with Rod.

 

You will benefit greatly by adding something like one of these to your current set up. 

 

https://www.cloudyni...hance-2-filter/

 

Also, do you have any filter in your set up?

 

The 533MC needs to be used with an UV/IR (Luminance) cut filter when shooting OSC. I see it is not cooled, but pretty sure it still needs one.



#4 CTerry

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 01:41 PM

that may be the road i end up down eventually. id rather not spend $100s on a tiny piece of glass just to make my pictures pretty. even the $50 or $60 is a bit much for me right now.

 

i dont have anything for the 533. ive looked into getting a uv/ir glass. i know zwo sells replacement lenses. if i were to get a uv/ir and another filter. can i double stack them without any issues. or would they not play nice?


Edited by CTerry, 03 October 2023 - 01:41 PM.


#5 bobzeq25

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 02:03 PM



Hopefully i dont get too much hate for posting this as im still learning.  Ive been looking on here for a good while now trying to find info to help me decide, but it seems like the more i find the more confused i get.

 

Setup is an AT80EDT with an Asi533mc (uncooled unfortunately) and my skys are crappy B7 (whish is most likely the biggest issue).  tracking and guiding and all that jazz are fine.  the scope and camera operate just fine, i just want to make the faint fuzzies less faint and fuzzy. I only use this camera to shoot with and i dont do any RGB or narrowband so i need something that will go well with my 533mc.

 

All i want is a filter that will help make the deep sky pop a bit better.  recently tried the elephant trunk nebula and wizard and even after 2 hours of each i could barely make out any details. it was just a crazy star field image. It could totally be my camera settings as well. Ive never shot these targets before and i was just trying them out. I did 30s exp at 0 gain cause i didnt want to blow out my stars.  I know big long exp and dozens of hours is always the answer but i didnt have that kinda time and if thats the problem then thats fine, i will try again another night. 

 

Ive been looking at some affordable (svbony & astronomiks) UHC and CLS options ($50-60 for a filter seems ok) but it seems like they are basically the same thing.  Id rather not go with the spendy options like L-Pro and L-enhance cause its just not worth the money to me honestly.

 

so yea, can anyone help me choose??

 

thanks

No hate here, this is a common problem.  Two really big deals.

 

Filters work well on emission nebulae only.  On other things - not so much.  The reason is that emission nebulae emit light in 1-3 narrow bands.  That's ideally suited for sorting out with a filter.  Other targets emit across the entire spectrum.  Filters really mess that up.  They reduce signal, and you have none to spare.  They distort color.

 

Some filters on emission nebulae are not very good.  They are _way_ too sloppy, so they're inefficient at sorting out signal from light pollution.  These include.

 

The UHC, which was designed for your eye.

 

The ancient CLS, whose design is pretty much obsolete.

 

The ones that work are the modern duobands.   The cheapest one I know of is the ZWO, a number of people are reasonably satisfied with that:

 

https://astronomy-im...uo-band-filter/

 

Other point.  For targets where filters don't work, a good alternative is gradient reduction in processing.  Not perfect, but doesn't reduce signal or distort color.  Astro Pixel Processor has an excellent gradient reduction tool, also other software.

 

This is an image of M31 I took from a very light polluted backyard (just like yours, B7).  No (not so) magic "light pollution" filter was used, just gradient reduction.  Click on the mediocre CN thumbnail for a good version, and capture details.

 

So, if you don't want to spend on a duoband for emission nebulae, image other targets where filters are not very useful.  Some cameras do need a cheap UV/IR cut.

 

get.jpg?insecure


Edited by bobzeq25, 03 October 2023 - 02:05 PM.

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#6 DirtyRod

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 02:04 PM

that may be the road i end up down eventually. id rather not spend $100s on a tiny piece of glass just to make my pictures pretty. even the $50 or $60 is a bit much for me right now.

 

i dont have anything for the 533. ive looked into getting a uv/ir glass. i know zwo sells replacement lenses. if i were to get a uv/ir and another filter. can i double stack them without any issues. or would they not play nice?

Most filters also block IR and UV. Don't know about UHC filters since I don't own any but the dual and triband filters definitely do. The vendors generally have a chart on their website that shows you which light is blocked. 


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#7 cahanc

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Posted 03 October 2023 - 06:53 PM

I am in same boat as OP.  I haven't even taken my first image with my 533. I have the cooled camera(bought it used here on CN).  I am hoping to get something tonight as it looks clear.  I live in Berkeley, CA with B7-8 skies, awful light pollution.  I am not sure what I will be able to do with AP but I am curious.  I do lots of visual also.  Good Luck.



#8 Zambiadarkskies

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 12:42 AM

that may be the road i end up down eventually. id rather not spend $100s on a tiny piece of glass just to make my pictures pretty. even the $50 or $60 is a bit much for me right now.

 

i dont have anything for the 533. ive looked into getting a uv/ir glass. i know zwo sells replacement lenses. if i were to get a uv/ir and another filter. can i double stack them without any issues. or would they not play nice?

 

Filters can be expensive...  About the cheapest option for dual band emission nebula: 

 

https://agenaastro.c...jRoCWMAQAvD_BwE

 

being 1.25" it can fit just in front of the sensor of your 533.  



#9 HubSky

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 12:44 PM

that may be the road i end up down eventually. id rather not spend $100s on a tiny piece of glass just to make my pictures pretty. even the $50 or $60 is a bit much for me right now.

 

i dont have anything for the 533. ive looked into getting a uv/ir glass. i know zwo sells replacement lenses. if i were to get a uv/ir and another filter. can i double stack them without any issues. or would they not play nice?

The reality is you haven't accepted that if you want to shoot most DSOs with an OSC in B7 skies then you will be required to go narrowband otherwise you are pretty much wasting your time.  If not, then you are shooting broadband which leaves you galaxies, clusters, and a handful of the brighter reflection and planetary nebulae.  I wouldn't waste time on DSOs like you tried earlier without using a narrowband filter.  I've tried three different light pollution filters when shooting broadband, and I've found better results without them.  When shooting broadband with the 533mc, you will get better star results using an UV/IR cut filter.  FYI, I'm in B/B8 skies also. 



#10 CTerry

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 01:38 PM

Yea im getting the feeling that ill end up with a narrowband filter eventually. just gotta sell of a kidney so i can pay for it. lol or get lucky and get one on the cheap. but i doubt that will ever happen.

 

Ooh well, good to know tho and thats what i wanted to find out.  I didnt want to spend $100 on a couple filters if it wasnt worth it, and i dont know enough about them to pick the right one, so gotta rely on the forum gurus. lol

 

Ill most likely end up getting UV/IR glass to replace the AR glass on my camera, then look into getting an L-Enhance filter or similar dual narrowband later on.


Edited by CTerry, 04 October 2023 - 01:38 PM.

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#11 Skysmacker

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 01:57 PM

Yea im getting the feeling that ill end up with a narrowband filter eventually. just gotta sell of a kidney so i can pay for it. lol or get lucky and get one on the cheap. but i doubt that will ever happen.

 

Ooh well, good to know tho and thats what i wanted to find out.  I didnt want to spend $100 on a couple filters if it wasnt worth it, and i dont know enough about them to pick the right one, so gotta rely on the forum gurus. lol

 

Ill most likely end up getting UV/IR glass to replace the AR glass on my camera, then look into getting an L-Enhance filter or similar dual narrowband later on.

Keep an eye out on the Cloudy Nights Classifieds. 

 

Good/cheap filters pop up all the time and you may be able to snag a good deal.




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