296 replies to this topic

[Psion]

In discussions of smart telescopes, I kind of cringe when I see the comparisons miss this important element of the eVscopes. This is a very important criteria to educational institutions and non-profits obtaining grant funding to go toward these telescopes, and the Unistellar Seti-affiliated company uses a democratic model of including contributors in their peer-reviewed research. 

I am a member of the Czech Astronomical Society, and I am in charge of the Instruments and Optics section. In my lectures, I mentioned this eVscope advantage to users, but without much response. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people want to make pictures and are not interested in science. I like it, but unfortunately, I have never posted any data. For example, the prediction of asteroid occultations on the Unistellar site is practically unusable, and it's better to use standard Windows applications.

[Dpasqa]

The eVscope disables charging below 10 °C and cannot be charged or powered, which means that if the battery runs out, the device cannot be operated in any way. The battery heats up when charging, but the eVscope does not measure this; the sensor is on the electronics board, and this is wrong. I started charging the Seestar battery at a temperature higher than 10 °C, and the charging continued at an outside temperature of -1°C, but that does not mean the battery was at that temperature.

Recently the specs report that the Passengers low temp is -10°C. that is 22°f in area. It further says you can operate it below this temperature but it might affect battery life and less accurate but they say you won’t damage the unit running it lower. I’ll have to wait a bit for cold temps to try it out. 

[GSBass]

Real world numbers are you can operate with not much thought in upper 20s F ….. as with any computer, sluggish or strange behavior can start to occur in lower 20s and colder, it can also affect tracking as extreme cold starts to affect , there are creative work arounds to help keep the case part housing the computer a bit warmer. There is no danger though, if it starts acting squirrelly then it’s time to pack up

Recently the specs report that the Passengers low temp is -10°C. that is 22°f in area. It further says you can operate it below this temperature but it might affect battery life and less accurate but they say you won’t damage the unit running it lower. I’ll have to wait a bit for cold temps to try it out. 

[jackpresley]

I am a new owner of an eVscope 2. So consider my comments accordingly.

 

1. You are correct. It's a fairly narrow FOV.

2. It does this pretty well, in my opinion. 

3. Very subjective to determine complete ease of use. I would say the Unistellar models don't qualify since they are real reflector OTAs that need collimation and have a poorly designed focus system, in my opinion. There is noticeable lag time to eyepiece (which is electronic) or app. You really have to use the app to focus because the eyepiece has its own focus for vision correction. There are no "base" markings on either. The first time use of this telescope requires a lot of work, in my opinion. Leveling the tripod, turning it on, aligning, dark frames, collimation, and focus. Each of these steps, except taking the dark frame, takes some work to get it right.

4. There is manual camera control, movement, etc.

5. You can post-process the images on your iPhone or tablet, but to access the raw files is extraordinarily difficult and time consuming.

6. For nearly double the cost, I got the evscope 2 with eyepiece. I'm disappointed. As the image improves, it is nice but there just isn't the same wow factor as looking through a 100% optical scope. I thought the eyepiece would be similar to the Sony OLED display on my DSLR (Alpha 65) -- and there is zero comparison. Nikon dropped the ball here or Unistellar blew it. But there is an eyepiece for star parties, etc. Nobody else has this.

7. They screwed this up with their solar update. No terrestrial viewing right now.

8. The big solar filter is an option. Otherwise you have to finagle filter inside the tube over the camera facing the rear mirror. Not easy.

9. No

10. The Unistellar scopes are real reflectors. The secondary mirror is the camera instead. Comparatively speaking, this makes it large and bulky.

11. See #7, so yes. There are bugs.

12. With an Apple silicon Mac, I suppose you could run their iPad app on your laptop?

13. Ultra expensive in my opinion. I got a Black Friday deal and got the eVscope 2 and backpack for $3900. 

 

We are doing a side by side comparison tomorrow night with my 8" reflector and 150mm refractor for purely visual viewing. I think the straight optical tubes are going to win. We'll see. I think I'll be returning for a SeeStar.

 

 

 

As of 11/2023 I personally have the Vespera, Dwarf2, and the SeeStar but not the EvScope/Equinox(1 or 2) nor the Stellina so I won't comment much on scopes that I don't have. If anybody can fill in gaps in my knowledge about anything below, add a comment and I can edit/correct this posting.

 

I agree that none of these scopes were designed for planetary due to their small aperture and focal-lengths.  Based on nothing but aperture and focal-length from the specifications, I would think the EvScope2/Equinox2 would work the best for planets but the general recommendation would be to get an additional scope for planets that has a much larger aperture and focal-length.

 

Comments on consensus about how these scopes compare is difficult for the following reasons:

1. Very few people have more than one of these scopes for first-hand comparisons
2. The images from all of these scopes benefit from post-processing and when people look at post-processed images, it is hard to separate the native ability of the telescope from the prost-processing skill of the person doing the post-processing.
3. Different people value different features differently.  
4. Each person has their own cost-benefit analysis with different measures of benefit and cost.

With those caveats, the following are my impressions as of 11/05/2023:

 

1. A desire to capture wide-field views.  for example, getting all of the following with a little area around them:  Andromeda galaxy, Orion and Running Man, Horse Head and flame, etc.
   1. The Vespera and Stellina have the CovalENS (mosaic) feature which allows the telescope to natively take a mosaic of a user-defined larger area (up to a certain limit)  than the native field of view (FOV) of the telescope/sensor.  I've read that due to processor limitations, the Stellina's version of the mosaic may not perform quite as well as the Vespera's implementation.
   2. The Dwarf2 has the largest native FOV of any of the smart telescopes at this time and can natively go about as wide as the Vespera with the CovalENS mosaic.
   3. The SeeStar as of this writing does not have a mosaic feature but it may get one in the future.
   4. I don't think the Unistellar scopes (EvScope/Equinox)) natively support a mosaic mode.
2. A desire to capture smaller DSO.  this will mainly be focal-length driven.
   1. the Stellina and EvScope/Equinox(2nd models) have the longer focal-length paired with higher resolution sensors so would do better on the smaller DSOs 
   2. The SeeStar with its 250mm FL would do a bit better on the smaller DSOs than the Vespera with the same sensor but only 200mm focal-length.
   3. The Dwarf2 with its modest 100mm focal-length will be less effective on the smaller things.
3. A desire for complete ease-of-use
   1. The Vaonis Singularity app used for the both the Vespera and the Stellina is now very mature and is optimized well for complete ease-of use of the scope.  After choosing your pre-defined observing location, there is just a one-button initialization step, then you choose your target.
   2. The SeeStar's app is almost as easy to use.  There is a focus step that you have to remember to do.  There are some early release software bugs on finding the sun and moon that they should be able to work out with upcoming software releases.
   3. I've read that the EvScope/Equinox scopes are also easy to use and people like their software.  The Unistellar scopes don't have auto-focus.  You have to manually turn a focus wheel. 
   4. The Dwarf2 due to all its manual controls forces you to set-up a lot of things correctly before getting good results.   Thus it is not as easy to use as the others.  Dwarf Lab is coming out soon with a new major software release and its ease-of-use will then need to be re-evaluated. 
4. A desire for manual control
   1. The Dwarf2 from the first launch had its user-interface open to all sorts of manual control which pleases people who like to tinker with settings to optimize performance.  
   2. The Stellina/Vespera main menus insulate the use from manual controls but there are other menus a click or two away that can let you control sub-exposure time and gain settings while taking images in manual mode.  There is no manual focus option in Stellina/Vespera but the auto-focus works well.
   3. The initial SeeStar software only has two manual control features:  a gain setting and a way to manually focus.  They do plan on coming out with a "pro-version" of the software but nothing is known about that as of this time.
   4. I don't know enough about the EvScope/Equinox to comment on any manual control features they may have.
5. A desire to post-process raw files
   1. The Stellina/Vespera offers two raw file options
      1. Saving a single stacked but un-stretched TIFF file.  This is then very convenient to import into you favorite image-editing program to edit.  Some people will take TIFFs from a couple different nights and stack them together for even better results.
      2. Saving individual FITs files for each frame.  Then stack them in 3rd-party software to produce a single resulting raw file to then continue to process.
   2. The Dwarf2 similarly has two raw offerings
      1. outputs a single stacked and stretched PNG file which you could further post-process in another program.
      2. outputs individual raw sub-frames in either FIT or TIFF format (you choose before hand) which you can then stack and further process in 3rd-party programs.
   3. The SeeStar also gives the following raw options for post-processing:
      1. A single FIT file that contains all the frames.  I've been able to take this file and convert it to a TIFF and directly post-process it for a final image.
      2. An option to save individual FIT files.  I have not activated this option but apparently you can then stack all the FITs in your favorite 3rd-party software.
   4. Since I don't have a EvScope/Equinox scope, I don't know for sure its ability to give access to raw files.   I've read that you can get access but it is a bit more complicated.
6. A desire for live-view and/or EAA
   1. The SeeStar offers a true live-view of the image before you start the stacking.  For most DSO, this will result in a mainly black screen but it is useful for getting a live-view of the moon since the moon is so bright.  For example, you could point it at the moon and live-view all night long without ever actually saving off a picture.  For DSOs, the SeeStar will show you the results of the stacking on the screen with only a gain slider to control.
   2. The Dwarf2 offers a histogram (curves) screen when stacking where you can draw your own "s-curve" to optimize what you are seeing in the screen as the frames stack.  No other smart-scope offers such a histogram in the provided software.  For bright objects like the sun and moon, the dwarf2 can also be used in modes other than DSO stacking and view them that way. 
   3. The Stellina/Vespera only shows the object while you are collecting data that being saved to disk - thus no pure live view.  Although, while you are collecting data you can see the results of the stacking and any other stretching and enhancing that the internal software is doing for the images it displays here.  The Stellina app does not provide any controls, though, to manipulate what you see on the screen while it is stacking other than an option to see a quick time-lapse of the stacking progression.
   4. I'm not sure about what features the EvScope/Equinox has for live view-view or EAA control while stacking.  I think I remember that there is a true live-view options and then you can activate stacking.
7. Desire for daytime photography and/or video
   1. The Dwarf2 was designed as a hybrid scope for both general daytime photography and videography as will as astronomical use.  It has a second wide-angle "finder-scope" which is very useful for finding objects.  This wide-angle finder-scope lens/camera only works, though, to take still images and the image quality is not all that great but it works fine as a finder-scope.  The Dward2 can take video as well.  It can focus as close a 8.5 feet away all the way to infinity.  I've enjoyed using mine remotely to take pictures of birds or dragon-flies.
   2. The SeeStar also have a scenery-mode that can be used in the daytime but I find that less useful.  It is hard to find the objects without a wide-angle "finder-scope" and it cannot focus all that close.  I was not able to closer any closer than about 63 feet way.  
   3. Neither the Stellina nor Vesera has a daytime scenery mode
   4. I'm not sure about the EvScope/Equinox
8. Desire to use filters
   1. The Stellina has internal (always in place) general light-pollution filter and can take an external solar filter
   2. The Vespera has an internal (always in place) IR-block filter and can take the following three proprietary 2" filter accessories:  general light-pollution, dual-band, and solar.  These proprietary filters are keyed so the software knows they are in place and can optimize or turn on features appropriately.  Some people have tricked out their Vespera to accept 3rd-party filters.
   3. The EvScope/Equinox can take 3rd-party 1.25" filters by reaching your hand inside the front of the scope and screwing the filters into filter-threads in front of the sensor.  I'm not sure if this include solar.
   4. The SeeStar has an internal mini-filter wheel that can rotate in and out the following:  light-pollution filter (not sure if true dual band or not), IR-filter, or totally blocking dark.  The initial software just gives you control to turn on or off  "filter"  so I think that just toggles between the ir-cut and the light-pollution filters.  The future pro-software may give you more control. I'm not sure if no filter will be an an option. The SeeStar also can take an external solar filter.
   5. The Dwarf2 can take external 1.25" filters that screw into a magnetic filter-holder that attaches over the the two lens.  For solar you need to screw 2 solar filters into this magnetic filter holder to protect both lens.  The Dwarf2 also has the option to internally rotate in our out its ir-block filter.
9. Equatorial use
   1. the Dwarf2 can be used equatorially mounted (usually with 3rd-party tripod) and the Dwarf2 software can still be used to track the image.  The main benefit of this is to remove field-rotation as you collect images.  The software still only supports relatively short individual subs.  
   2. The Stellina has an internal field de-rotator which allows you to select the field orientation before starting collection as well as compensate for the field rotation while the collection is underway.  This de-rotation is not good enough, though, to allow for longer subs but it does eliminate "loosing the corners" of your final image.
   3. The Vespera cannot to my knowledge be used equatorially mounted.  It can, though, with the mosaic offering, allow you to pre-determine the framing of the object and then compensate for field-rotation for this user-defined rectangle as the collection continues.  You pay for this in extra imaging time.
   4. I don't think the EvScope/Equinox can be used equatorially mounted. 
   5. I have not yet heard anybody saying whether there is a way for the SeeStar to be used equatorially mounted.  
10. Some interesting design decisions
    1. The Stellina has a flat mirror in its design and the sensor is located in one of the fork arms.  This allows for the length of the middle scope-section of the Stellina to be shorter.
    2. The Vespera uses a 4-element Petzval optical design with 2 lens up front and 2 at the rear.
    3. The Dwarf2 uses a periscope optical design with a prism up front that directs the light 90 degrees to the rest of the optical train inside the scope.
    4. The SeeStar uses 2 flat mirrors in its design which makes it a folded refractor. 
11. Bugs and quirks - some of these are subjective and/or can be fixed with future software releases.
    1. the SeeStar with its initial software release has some problems finding the sun and moon although they have a way to find these objects manually.  Hopefully a future software release can solve this problem.  The SeeStar also as of this writing has some issues with its internal stacking and stretching if it had paused collection for a while and then resumed.  The image will then have a noticeable brighter rectangle.  Although perhaps not technically a problem, it is somewhat distracting when viewing unedited images.
    2. The Dwarf2's initial software was a bit buggy with the program sometimes getting into a state where you have to turn it off and back on to recover.  Hopefully their upcoming new software release will improve this.  I also don't like that with the Dwarf2 you have to pre-decide how many frames before you start collection.  I know with the Vaonis and ZWO offerings, you can decide how long to stack after you start.  For example, if the night remains clear, you can just then decide to go longer.  With the Dwarf2, you have to make that decision up-front.
    3. The Singularity app for the Stellina and Vespera is now fairly mature and I can't think of any out-right bugs.  I'm sure some people could find things that they wished it could support.  One nuisance on the Vespera is the bright blue light for when at star-parties when no bright lights are wanted.  I'm always wishing I had some tape to put over it.  I may add tape to my travelling kit. Another small issue is the magnetic power-connector.  It sometimes attracts dirt and will need to be cleaned from time to time. 
    4. I don't know enough about the Evscope/Equinox to comment about it bugs and quirks.  Some people think that the electronic eyepiece on the EvScope varieties are a bit of a gimmick since you should not be touching the scope when it is collecting data.   
12. Using them with laptops.    (New item I just added).  Although all of these were designed to be used with mobile devices (IOS or android), some people have found some ways to set-up a laptop to run software monitoring the collection folders from the smart-telescope.
    1. SeeStar - the collection directory shows up as a drive on your laptop when the USB-c cable is attached.  Some people have said you could then run SharpCap on that directory during live capture and have SharpCap do live-stacking and take advantage of the SharpCap features.  I think these people said that the other directories that SharpCap will use also end-up being on the SeeStar.  I have not done this personally.  When I briefly tried it, the SeeStar app immediately got out of the imaging mode and said "connected to computer" when I connected the USB-cable so therr must be some additional steps necessary.
    2. The collection directory for the Dwarf2 also can show-up as a drive if you turn MTP mode on.  In some quick experimenting, though, I have not seen the directory auto-update on my laptop after taking a picture.  Although, If I disconnect and re-connect my cable, I see the directory update.  So it might be possible.   Perhaps there is a step I don't know about to cause the directory on my laptop to update the file-listing. I don't know 
    3. The Vespera allows only FTP access to the collection directory.  Perhaps some scripting running an FTP program could periodically check the directory and fetch files.  I have not tried this.  
    4. The Stellina has a USB cable that might allow access to the files.  since I don't have he Stellina, I'm not sure what is possible.
    5. I'm also not sure of the EvScope/Equinox capabilities for this.
13. Value for the money.  This is partly subjective about what features are important to you and how much you are willing to spend.  The Dwarf2 and SeeStar are priced a lot lower than the Vespera/Stellina/EvScope/Equinox scopes.  Part of this is due to the internal cost of materials.  There are more plastic parts in the Dwarf2/SeeStar.  Part is due to that it costs less to manufacture things in China than in France.  If you cannot justify spending more than about $600 then that rules out some offerings.  For any choice, just look at the features that you want, what you are willing to spend, and make your own decisions.

 

Edited by jackpresley, 02 December 2023 - 05:31 PM.

[James1234]

Just found the YouTuber Galactic Hunter has published a video to compare the four smart scopes: Unistellar EVscope, DwarfLab DWARF II, ZWO Seestar, Vaonis Vespera. The video compared the specs and design of the four scopes, seems the creator will publish another video to compre them. 

[anurag1212]

https://vaonis.com/hyperia/en/

 

A smart telescope is defined here as an all-in-one telescope, mount, camera, and software that you purchase as a single unit and control with a mobile app. These all work for Deep Sky Object imaging by stacking lots of short single exposures. So far they all use Alt-Az mounts although the Dwarf2 will work oriented equatorially.

 

As of 11/2023, there are four main manufacturers of smart telescopes.  More may be coming.

1. Vaonis   (A French company)   https://vaonis.com
   1. ​The Stellina is an 80mm F5 refractor using the Sony IMX178 sensor. It has a built-in light-pollution filter, dew-heater, and sensor de-rotator.  The Stellina’s price has been around $4000.   It can take an external solar white-light filter.  
      .........

[GSBass]

Hyperia is vaporware I believe, they may have built it if they had gotten orders but believe it was intended to be a statement of design, it is indeed a dream robot, I would love to have one. Perhaps one day it will be revisited at a more realistic price point

https://vaonis.com/hyperia/en/

[ColSanderz]

A "diy" version of the Hyperia is about 20k.

• 1050mm f/7 - $7-8k
• FF Monochrome - $4k
• Filters + Filter Wheel - $1.5k
• EQ Mount - $2-4k

 

So, $14.5k minimum, plus whatever you'd need for a guide scope and computer (ZWO or nina, etc). You're probably running close to 18-20k by that point.

 

If... Vaonis had the Hyperia at 25k... yea, I'd be tempted. Not that I have the money to drop right now, but it would be far more appealing!

 

Hyperia is vaporware I believe, they may have built it if they had gotten orders but believe it was intended to be a statement of design, it is indeed a dream robot, I would love to have one. Perhaps one day it will be revisited at a more realistic price point

Edited by ColSanderz, 08 December 2023 - 02:56 PM.

[Stevegeo]

Just found the YouTuber Galactic Hunter has published a video to compare the four smart scopes: Unistellar EVscope, DwarfLab DWARF II, ZWO Seestar, Vaonis Vespera. The video compared the specs and design of the four scopes, seems the creator will publish another video to compre them.

Vid two galactic hunter is out. You may not agree with the results ..unless you own a Vespera

[GSBass]

I do own one and agree with his opinions but regardless I thought the way he did the review was fair, it was pretty easy to judge the best based on the images he captured , I would only note that a deeper dive in to dwarfs settings may have had it win on the moon and sun even with its smaller aperture…. It’s just having that full control that allows you to really have nice results straight from the camera. Seestar does not really win just based on software maturity…you pretty much have to post process its images to get comparable results, equinox may be a good scope but I can’t get past the price/performance ratio of that scope…. Its images may be good but not the best and the price is astronomical. I won’t say anything about Vespera since I am biased toward that system, I think everyone knows my thoughts on that scope by now

Vid two galactic hunter is out. You may not agree with the results ..unless you own a Vespera

[Stevegeo]

Oh i agree, i think more in depth testing and comparison should be done.
post and non post prosessing. you will notice that the second test was in bortel7 skies.

i had my Vespera in bortel one and for a week while there got incredible shots i struggled to get with larger scopes , cameras stc..
since then i have SOLD all that, keeping only my visual equipment like big betty C14 and C11.
i have a Stellina as well, and though i like it, the size and portability discourages me from using it more.

i would like to see a comparison of all these, head to head, same location, same condition , same targets.
deep sky, planetary, and solar. personally what i like with all of these, is simplicity, no cables, no hooking this to this, no dragging out camera, lining things up.
plug and play. yea some purists think its cheating. i too was in that group, but after seeing results of the vespera, and actually using it a few nites, it turned my whole outlook around.
I sold all my astrophotog gear, at once. no regrets.
Now armed with the Vespera, tablet, a cord and adapter,flat screen 12v TV i can do public outreach so EVERYONE CAN ENJOY.
my only hold back has been the weather..

my thoughts are that within the next 5 mre years the prices will come down, the competition will heat up, and features tech will be enhanced.

steve.

[GSBass]

That timeline sounds accurate, Vaonis should be 4th generation by then and zwo on their 2nd or third… I’m sure dwarf lab will release another after their software matures and we still have some other companies that may jump in. As far as price though, I kinda expect prices to increase for zwo and dwarflabs, they may keep a 500 dollar system available but to compete all of them will have to go bigger aperture and nicer chipsets…. That naturally will drive the cost up

Oh i agree, i think more in depth testing and comparison should be done.
post and non post prosessing. you will notice that the second test was in bortel7 skies.

i had my Vespera in bortel one and for a week while there got incredible shots i struggled to get with larger scopes , cameras stc..
since then i have SOLD all that, keeping only my visual equipment like big betty C14 and C11.
i have a Stellina as well, and though i like it, the size and portability discourages me from using it more.

i would like to see a comparison of all these, head to head, same location, same condition , same targets.
deep sky, planetary, and solar. personally what i like with all of these, is simplicity, no cables, no hooking this to this, no dragging out camera, lining things up.
plug and play. yea some purists think its cheating. i too was in that group, but after seeing results of the vespera, and actually using it a few nites, it turned my whole outlook around.
I sold all my astrophotog gear, at once. no regrets.
Now armed with the Vespera, tablet, a cord and adapter,flat screen 12v TV i can do public outreach so EVERYONE CAN ENJOY.
my only hold back has been the weather..

my thoughts are that within the next 5 mre years the prices will come down, the competition will heat up, and features tech will be enhanced.

steve.

[Psion]

ZWO has the great advantage of having vast experience with many types of cameras and producing high-quality AM3 and AM5 mounts. They are involved in the development of ASIAir, which is basically astronomy software for photography. I reckon they'll be coming out with an S80 model for under $2000 very soon.

[GSBass]

Perhaps if they make the decision to go all in….it will change their business model if they do…. My feelings are they might as well jump in now because it seems inevitable…. Already seeing more and more people ditching their traditional gear…. Does not matter whether it’s better or not, people just love to be able to image with no setup, as the old timers die off, so will that market

ZWO has the great advantage of having vast experience with many types of cameras and producing high-quality AM3 and AM5 mounts. They are involved in the development of ASIAir, which is basically astronomy software for photography. I reckon they'll be coming out with an S80 model for under $2000 very soon.

[TelescopeOwningPerson]

I want a smart telescope, but I feel sort of insane for wanting one. I worry that once I get one the experience will kind of fall flat. Did anyone that loves theirs have a similar anxiety? Can you reassure me that there is a thrill to this that compares to overcoming the old equipment challenges?

 

Does anybody else wish for an H-Alpha smart scope for solar imaging?

 

The advantage of actually being able to image a target that changes by the hour at least mitigates the "Couldn't you just download somebody else's image, or process data from JWST?" problem. You might catch something special that not everybody with the same equipment can easily duplicate.

 

I fear pulling the trigger. Ive looked at and enjoyed other people's images, but that's the real question. Will using this kind of device be more rewarding than looking at other people's images? If so, how so? It's a lot of money, and I'm a worrier.

Edited by TelescopeOwningPerson, 15 December 2023 - 04:32 AM.

[GSBass]

I don’t think anyone can tell you because it’s a very personal experience, I can say it made me very happy but it is totally different than traditional imaging, You mostly do it inside so it is transformed in to an arm chair hobby, you basically sit the scope out and don’t revisit til your finished. I really enjoy that but it is different. It’s also true that I still advocate getting a vespera over all the others which some people can’t afford, the main reason is flexibility, to keep things fresh you really need to have creative control over your field of view and target orientation, otherwise you just basically are stuck taking the same images over and over and that does leave you wanting more. Vaonis is only scopes that let you have that creative control through their CovalENS algorithm. But if your really not sure robotic imaging is for you yet then seestar would at least get your feet wet at a relatively cheap price…. You could always upgrade to vespera later if you decide you really like robotic imaging…..

I want a smart telescope, but I feel sort of insane for wanting one. I worry that once I get one the experience will kind of fall flat. Did anyone that loves theirs have a similar anxiety? Can you reassure me that there is a thrill to this that compares to overcoming the old equipment challenges?

 

Does anybody else wish for an H-Alpha smart scope for solar imaging?

 

The advantage of actually being able to image a target that changes by the hour at least mitigates the "Couldn't you just download somebody else's image, or process data from JWST?" problem. You might catch something special that not everybody with the same equipment can easily duplicate.

 

I fear pulling the trigger. Ive looked at and enjoyed other people's images, but that's the real question. Will using this kind of device be more rewarding than looking at other people's images? If so, how so? It's a lot of money, and I'm a worrier.

[jprideaux]

I want a smart telescope, but I feel sort of insane for wanting one. I worry that once I get one the experience will kind of fall flat. Did anyone that loves theirs have a similar anxiety? Can you reassure me that there is a thrill to this that compares to overcoming the old equipment challenges?

 

Does anybody else wish for an H-Alpha smart scope for solar imaging?

 

The advantage of actually being able to image a target that changes by the hour at least mitigates the "Couldn't you just download somebody else's image, or process data from JWST?" problem. You might catch something special that not everybody with the same equipment can easily duplicate.

 

I fear pulling the trigger. Ive looked at and enjoyed other people's images, but that's the real question. Will using this kind of device be more rewarding than looking at other people's images? If so, how so? It's a lot of money, and I'm a worrier.

H-alpha for solar is fairly expensive and making a dedicated smart-scope for h-alpha solar would therefore be fairly expensive.  I think the smart-scope market is too early for people to be willing to pay that higher cost for such a set-up.   

It may come, though, in the future.

 

Technically, a smart-scope is just an imaging rig (that is much easier to use) and with any imaging rig, you don't have to be standing (or sitting) there right by the scope while it is doing its thing.  Unlike a visual scope where you have to be there to look through the eyepiece.

that does give it a different experience.  You could use a smart-scope (or any imaging rig if set-up with wifi) from home while you are sitting in your house.  Or if, like me, your home has too much light pollution, use it sitting in your car after you drive out to a dark site an hour away.

 

The smart-scopes can image the sun but only do it with a simple white-light filter so you just see the sun-spots.  With solar, you do need to be right by the scope because of the protocol of putting on the solar filter and working with the scope to find the sun.   the time imaging the sun will be very short as compared to what you need to do for deep sky objects.  I often take my scope out for the sun, set it up, take the images (or video depending on the scope), and close it down all within about 10 or 15 minutes.   then after the fact, I may run the images (or video) through some 3rd-party lucky-imaging stacking program to get a better final resulting image). 

 

Taking pictures of the moon works in a similar way as solar except no solar filter involved. 

 

The sun changes with sun spots changing.  the moon changes as it goes through the lunar cycle.  Other things that change are comets coming and going as well as supernovas popping up from time to time. 

Some people may even get into variable stars. 

 

Besides things that change, there are lots of nice thing out there that don't change and it will take a while to go through them all. 

[duck2k]

Personally I think smart scopes are beneficial to folks with vision problems. My eyes struggle with visual now. Portability is a great benefit as well, since I do a lot of road trips.

[GSBass]

Yeah , it’s pretty huge deal to help aging astronomers stay active in the hobby, you could be completely disabled and as long as you have someone to put it out for you then you could still image, Would even be nice if nursing homes had one to set up for those able to participate

Personally I think smart scopes are beneficial to folks with vision problems. My eyes struggle with visual now. Portability is a great benefit as well, since I do a lot of road trips.

[GadgetX]

... But if your really not sure robotic imaging is for you yet then seestar would at least get your feet wet at a relatively cheap price…. You could always upgrade to vespera later if you decide you really like robotic imaging…..

So Vespera is an upgrade to SeeStar S50?  Or do you just mean cost more?  Do you mean Vespera Pro?  

 

The reason I ask as after researching "Smart Telescopes" I seen my path being SeeStar S50 maybe to the Vespera Pro.  I really have no budget and would have gone to Vespera Pro if it was available.  Still wondering what the next state-of-the-art Smart Telescope will be in a year or two.  

 

M

[jprideaux]

So Vespera is an upgrade to SeeStar S50? Or do you just mean cost more? Do you mean Vespera Pro?

The reason I ask as after researching "Smart Telescopes" I seen my path being SeeStar S50 maybe to the Vespera Pro. I really have no budget and would have gone to Vespera Pro if it was available. Still wondering what the next state-of-the-art Smart Telescope will be in a year or two.

M

It is impossible to predict what new Robotic scopes will be out in 2 years. Often companies will keep their roadmap secret so the competition will not know their development plans.

Vaonis could come out with a Stellina-pro.
ZWO could come out with a SeeStar 70 or something.
Unistellar could come out with a new model.
Dwarf Lab could come out with a Dwarf3
A new player could offer something as well.

When to jump in the game with whatever is out now is a personal choice.

[GSBass]

Yes, Vespera classic is  an upgrade over seestar but mostly because of the CovalENS software that allows field of view selection and target orientation. Vespera pro adds hardware improvements and ability to do lights and darks etc…. But anyway, yeah it’s my opinion CovalENS is well worth the premium cost over seestar….. may not matter much at first when people are doing their first round of photos but that flexibility becomes very important. Seestar owners speculate they will get a mosaic mode eventually and they may but CovalENS is much more than just mosaics… wonderful algorithm, can’t say enough how great it is

So Vespera is an upgrade to SeeStar S50?  Or do you just mean cost more?  Do you mean Vespera Pro?  

 

The reason I ask as after researching "Smart Telescopes" I seen my path being SeeStar S50 maybe to the Vespera Pro.  I really have no budget and would have gone to Vespera Pro if it was available.  Still wondering what the next state-of-the-art Smart Telescope will be in a year or two.  

 

M

Edited by GSBass, 16 December 2023 - 10:07 AM.

[Rainguy]

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but hoping somehow can help me out. Where exactly are the My Works and SeeStar Album located on the S50 and how do you access them? I read somewhere that you need to click on the SeeStar name upper left corner to get to Settings and then click Advanced Options…..which I did on both iOS and Android devices and there was NOTHING anywhere, not a link, not an image with either My Works or SeeStar Album.

So how do I find these?

Thanks.

Doug

[jprideaux]

Not sure if this is the correct thread, but hoping somehow can help me out. Where exactly are the My Works and SeeStar Album located on the S50 and how do you access them? I read somewhere that you need to click on the SeeStar name upper left corner to get to Settings and then click Advanced Options…..which I did on both iOS and Android devices and there was NOTHING anywhere, not a link, not an image with either My Works or SeeStar Album.

So how do I find these?

Thanks.

Doug

I just connect a USB-C to USB-A cable from my SeeStar to a USB port on my laptop and the SeeStar shows up (when turned on) as a drive. Then I see the “My Works” folder and can drag files over to my PC.

[Bean614]

Yeah , it’s pretty huge deal to help aging astronomers stay active in the hobby, you could be completely disabled and as long as you have someone to put it out for you then you could still image, Would even be nice if nursing homes had one to set up for those able to participate

"...as long as you have someone to put it out for you then you could still image,"...!!!!

This is an issue I have with what is 'perceived' as the main use for Smartscopes!  Like so many of us who are too old, or not in good health, but who want to stay active in astronomy, it was just ASSUMED that that the question from duck2k, a Visual(!) observer, was about 'imaging'. It Wasn't! 

I'm the same. I'm strictly visual, and instead of quitting astronomy participation altogether, would like to just place a scope outside, push a button, and then come inside and simply view the objects on a TV or large Tablet.  Imagers do fine work, but, hard as it may be for a lot of you to believe,  many of us could care less about imaging! We want to simply view, and carefully observe ( as we used to do visually), as many details as possible, in as many objects as possible,  on any given night!

I feel that a select few, all imagers, have totally taken over the smartphone threads, and have tried to steer EVERY astronomer to imaging, or to then almost get them to leave--- if they didn't come over to the imaging side of things.  This is truly a shame...