57 replies to this topic

[Otto Piechowski]

I would appreciate any and all possible explanations you have for the following behaviors.

 

Regularly, in the early evening when using the Evolution SkyPortal Wifi function, in the middle of an attempt to align, the alignment will cancel.  Or, after a successful alignment has been obtained, that alignment will discontinue.  I notice this, first of all, by the sound of the motors going silent and, second of all, when attempting to slew to the next desired object, the scope simply goes off to some seemingly random other point in the sky.

 

However, later in the evenings, alignment happens without flaw and the scope stays aligned, even after some time away from the scope; having left it pointed at and following some object in the sky.

 

Something similar happens when using the hand control.  Say, I use two star auto align.  Part way to the second star, the alignment discontinues and the scope then slow-slews to the wrong place in the sky.  Or, having attained a two star alignment; the motors will stop and then selecting a new object in the sky to which I would like the scope to slew...the scope slews to some other random point in the sky.

 

If I use solar system align, center on an object, some moments later after having adequately tracked the object, the motors will become silent and the instruction to return to the same object or to go to another object, results in a slewing motion to some seemingly random spot in the sky.

 

.............

 

Again, I would appreciate hearing all/each of the reasons you can think of for these behaviors.  I would especially appreciate as well, hearing from those of you who have had similar experiences and have determined the/a cause and have resolved the problem.

 

 

With gratitude,

 

Otto

Edited by Otto Piechowski, 04 November 2023 - 12:30 PM.

[Frisk]

Power is the first thing that comes to mind.

[firemachine69]

Have you recently upgraded the firmware?

[PolyWogg]

For both SE and Evolution, the vast majority of us users seem to default to the likely causes with all computerized mounts:

 

1. User setup errors

2. Power inconsistencies

3. Firmware

4. System connectivities

 

Obviously, in this case, #1 doesn't apply, so I agree with Frisk that power would be my first thought. I did want to confirm one thing though...you said when using the Wifi aspect, BUT then you mentioned using the hand controller too. Is it happening when using the hand controller AND NO WIFI?

 

I haven't experienced it personally, but an inconsistent wifi connection for whatever reason MIGHT cause everything else to hang/stop in the middle. Sort of like the computer has three variables in mind (2 stars and a connection) and if it loses the connection, it resets to nada. 

 

On WIFI too, I know that if you are not using your wifi for an extended period of time as the scope is following an object, it could be going to sleep on you and thus losing the connection. I seem to recall in either the original setting or on your phone / tablet that there is a NEVER SLEEP option so that it regularly "pings" each other to make sure both are still there. If the phone or wifi is going to sleep, it would answer PART of the question (the long time unused portion), but not the others. However, an intermittent wifi connection COULD produce those other issues.

 

For my money, I would eliminate the wifi variable and just use manual setup with hand controller to see if it still happens...but then I always like stripping to zero and building up rather than removing things and working backwards.

 

Paul

[Otto Piechowski]

Thank you to all who responded.

 

Paul, I will try your two suggestions first; to switch the sleep option off and then to run the hand controller with the wifi off.

 

With gratitude,

 

Otto

[mlord]

Yeah.  Most likely it's a power conservation issue in the remote tablet/smartphone that is causing the connection loss.

[Otto Piechowski]

Turning off the Wi-Fi seemed to solve the problem of the hand controller disconnecting from its alignment. And the other problem of the Wi-Fi sky portal connection turning off and powering off the alignment; this again seems to be an early evening problem in my suburban neighborhood. I suspect the problem is neighboring Wi-Fi is being used which interfere with the Wi-Fi sky portal connection. Are there ways to shelter segregate the Wi-Fi sky portal connection on the telescope from local Wi-Fi interference?

[Noah4x4]

Turning off the Wi-Fi seemed to solve the problem of the hand controller disconnecting from its alignment. And the other problem of the Wi-Fi sky portal connection turning off and powering off the alignment; this again seems to be an early evening problem in my suburban neighborhood. I suspect the problem is neighboring Wi-Fi is being used which interfere with the Wi-Fi sky portal connection. Are there ways to shelter segregate the Wi-Fi sky portal connection on the telescope from local Wi-Fi interference?

“Internet Clutter” interference from other local networks is a well known problem on the 2.4ghz channel used by Celestron WiFi. In heavily populated areas of urban UK, it renders Celestron WiFi almost unusable. I eventually abandoned Celestron WiFi and switched to a minicomputer at the scope solution controlled from another PC using Remote Desktop, with both PCs controlled  via a 5 GHz network. There is a bucket load of information regarding this problem and solutions in the EAA Forum. 
 

You also can’t align with Sky Portal/Safari and then GoTo using HC (or vice versa) as that too will create a conflict. 

[mlord]

Microwave ovens are particularly good jamming devices for 2.4GHz wifi. 🙂

Bluetooth seems a LOT more tolerant of such problems.

[Otto Piechowski]

Is it possible that neighbor's wifi network connections/emanations could interfere (i.e. with tracking/searching) of the Hand Controller?

 

Second, when there has been some interruption to the Hand Controller's connection to the Nexstar's programming, when a new object is selected, the scope will then go at high speed to some other place in the sky.  //   On one occasion, this caused the scope to go fully vertical and then backwards so that the diagonal (with a focal reducer attached) scraped against the top of the mount base.  //  In such a case, once the scope stars slewing oddly, what are the good ways to just stop it from slewing?

 

With gratitude,

 

Otto

Edited by Otto Piechowski, 09 November 2023 - 11:15 AM.

[Frisk]

 HC and MC versions? Native HC shouldn't be impacted by nearby wifi.

 

Runaway or weird slews may be a MC problem. Or it could be a HC firmware problem. 

[whizbang]

Hitting any of the 4 direction arrow buttons will stop a goto slew.

[Otto Piechowski]

Thank you. That is helpful

[Otto Piechowski]

AHA!!!!

 

So, I was using the hand controller.  And after a solar system alignment and then after a two star alignment, the motor stopped humming and the alignment connection(s) had been lost.

 

I scrolled through the menu options and came to Factory Reset.  I did a Factory Reset, and went through the steps it required (e.g. location, time, date, etc.).  And then I disabled the WIFI.  No problems with alignment or following selected objects for the better part of an hour.

 

Not ten minutes ago, my next door neighbor starts his car; about forty yards from where I set up, and immediately two things happen: first, the motor stops because the alignment has been lost, and second, the wifi was on again (blinking slowly).

[PolyWogg]

Hmmm...I hesitate to stop your celebration, but perhaps you could ask your neighbour to do it again and see if it happens exactly contemporaneously again?

 

I can see the car somehow having interference that would disrupt a signal but you had WIFI off and were using the HC. Nothing that the car did should have interfered with HC usage. In addition, the fact that the wifi came back on and started blinking makes me think your power cycled entirely for the unit, not just the loss of signal. If you had been using WIFI and lost the signal, that would make sense. But losing the HC doesn't to me.

 

Could you instead have an intermittent power source? 

[Otto Piechowski]

Yes, it is certainly possible that the issue is an intermittent power source.

 

However, I hope it isn't.  I suspect dealing with interference is something I can deal with or tolerate....but an intermittent power source, that sounds like having to make a real repair.

 

I will be attentive to his activity with the car when I am using the scope in the future.

 

....

 

 

And by the by....whenever the alignment/tracking/motor cut out, when using the hand controller with the wifi disabled...it always comes back on.

 

Otto

[PolyWogg]

I missed the "coming back on" thing earlier. I wonder if you can test something simple? If you do an alignment, turn off wifi, do whatever, and then do something intentionally (delete an alignment star or something) so that it "loses" alignment, does WIFI come back on then too? If it does, it could just be a reaction to losing an alignment; if it doesn't, you know it's something else like a power glitch.

 

However, for power fixes, the standard advice normally applies and I forget what you have currently...ditch AA batteries completely (remove them, don't even have them in it); go with standalone fully charged appropriate portable power source if you have one; or then hook up directly to an outlet. An intermittent power issue could be something simple within your power source, a faulty power cable, or something more complicated. 

 

Up here in Canada, we have often found that our intermittent problems with power came from cables that were "supposedly" cold weather compatible but they meant like down to 10 degrees Celsius or 50 degrees Fahrenheit, not our typical -20 thruoghout most of the winter. Or power cells that went from giving out 8-12h of good use in the summer to 1-1.5h in the winter. So we're a bit biased to test cables and power sources pretty fast when it looks like somethign might be cycling on us

[Otto Piechowski]

Poly Wogg…. The comment that follows will demonstrate my lack of knowledge… How do I delete an alignment star. //. What you said about the effect of cold on cables is valuable. //. My scope is the next star evolution which means there are no AA batteries anywhere in the system.

[Frisk]

Try a secondary power source. 

 

That said, I don't have an Evo so I don't know -- is wifi defaulted to on when you apply power? 

[mlord]

whenever the alignment/tracking/motor cut out, when using the hand controller with the wifi disabled...it always comes back on.

The Evolution mount re-enables WiFi at each power-on or reset.  So what you are seeing here is the set-up being reset, as indicated by "the alignment/tracking/motor cut out".  And then the mount dutifully re-enables the WiFi because it has been reset.

 

The cause of the reset is somewhere else -- intermittent connection or a power issue.

EDIT: most likely an issue with the hand-controller cabling or the jack it is plugged into.
 

Edited by mlord, 11 November 2023 - 09:18 AM.

[whizbang]

I wonder if you might have a bad power switch?

 

Do you have any problems with it turning on?

[PolyWogg]

Doh! I totally forgot Evo doesn't have AA battery option like SEs...sigh.

 

My impression FWIW is that you have two possibilities still:

 

A. Your wifi is somehow messing up, cutting out, causing a "reset", and everything goes back to basics. That seemed like the issue when it was with wifi and other controllers, but when it happens with just HC, that doesn't seem as likely to me.

 

B. Some sort of power glitch that is causing everything to reset. While you can continue to fiddle with your existing setup to try and get it to work, it seems to me that it is more likely that you'll figure it out faster with an alternate power source. 

 

One thing that I couldn't tell 100% is if it ONLY resets when doing slewing? You mentioned the motor stopping...but if it was just on a star observing, the motor wouldn't be making noise, would it? I'm wondering if that is incidental or directly related i.e., you're slewing, some sort of loose connection shifts, and voila, it resets? Or it resets on its own?

 

The other thing to consider is timing it. If, for example, you time it from the very first time you turn the power on to the time it resets, is there a specific duration? It might be hard to spot if you're doing multiple things, but if it isn't a power glitch, I'm wondering if there is a "shutoff for inactivity" option that is set to 20 or 30m or something, or an hour, and at that point, no matter what you've been doing, it thinks you haven't done anything, so it just times out? I don't know of a setting that does that, but it's the only other thing I could think of that would cause a recurring power outage.

[mlord]

So long as the built-in battery of the Evo has a decent charge, one can rule out "insufficient power" as the issue.  Based on the evidence presented, this really sounds like a bad/intermittent connection with the hand-controller cabling.

[Otto Piechowski]

On the next our evolution, there are four ports to insert the hand control connection, I believe I’ve seen this motor cut out alignment cut out tracking cut out action when the hand controller has been inserted into three of the different four ports

[Gamewarden]

Try using sky portal or other control progarms and totally remove Handset. See if the problem persists. If it does not something in the hand set must be giving you problems. I never use the handset anymore.

 

Mark