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The long wait was worth it

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#1 northernmike

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 12:59 AM

This is my first topic in over a month , believe it or not , it has been cloudy in my part of the world for that long!!!

If newbies like me are reading this , and you just bought a nice pair of scopes like i did ,  and you want to try them as often as you want to,

be patient , VERY patient , i've bee enduring this for more than a month !frown.gif I'm pretty sure that the ''experienced ones'' here will laugh a little 

bit reading this too!

But these ''cloudy nights'' gave me an opportunity to study my 2 scopes , to collimate them , witch i succeeded pretty good with a laser ,

i saw a chart  with 3 drawings showing bad to good collimation (through a collimation cap) and mine was 100% ok , so i was feeling confident

for my next viewing night .  I also learned that magnification is not the # 1 priority in astronomy , but a good fov and eye relief will let you

see more things , than full magnification. So i decided to start my next viewing night with my 20mm and switch to the 9mm only. Find my objects

with the 20 and magnify a little more with the 9. Since i bought the Svbony goldline series , i don't have top of the line eyepieces , but decent ones

for that price range , a good way to start for a newbie like me . All of those cloudy nights where educational for me , at least....

 

And  tonight , after a long wait , the sky was completely clear , so  i took the dob out an hour before viewing , the forecast was -10 C (14 F)  i had

to let it settle at least an hour for it to cool off and then started a little bit with the moon , to try my new polarized filter ( i love it!) , then switched to jupiter , at that point,

i knew the collimation was on the nose , because i've never seen jupiter that beautiful , or was it a very clear night? i doubt it , because there was a

lot of frost on my dob , especially the telrad . I defenitively think that the collimation helped a lot , my focuser was better than usual too .

Then  i finally found a nebula , Orion , with the 20mm , i then switched to the 9mm and found that the view was better with the 20mm . the  9mm had a 

darker background .

My first deep space object !

For most of you , this must be funny to see so much enthusiasm for such an obvious object like the Orion nebula , but for me , it's the start of 

a new quest for  other nebulas , star clusters , galaxies....

 

My next upgrade on my dob is a 2'' EP , i have an eye on this one , any thoughts about it ?

 

https://telescopesca...epiece-sw31-5s2


Edited by northernmike, 21 November 2023 - 12:59 AM.

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#2 spinkick_pro

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 01:29 AM

Glad to hear you finally got some clear skies! Orion is always a treat. I never get bored of looking at it. I Love my Dob. At first I thought I was on a streak of good seeing but it really was just the large aperture of my dob. I finally got one of those Catseye Telecat tubes to try for better collimation. Will be testing my results soon.

 

14 degrees F?!  I would die. I went out to a club site and it hit 32 f and that was too cold for me. I have since invested in better cold weather clothing, so I'm ready for the winter.

 

As far as that Eyepiece, I'm not familiar with it. The price does look attractive. I do have an Agena 2" 38mm, which is in that price range. There is coma at the edges but it doesn't bother me. I also have a 2" APF UFF 30mm. Its significantly better and is my go-to for wide viewing. I still use the budget 38mm when I want the widest possible. And if I want even wider I put it in my achromat.


Edited by spinkick_pro, 21 November 2023 - 01:32 AM.

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#3 Slip

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 02:29 AM

Awesome report!! You have so much more fun ahead of you.

 

Aloha and Clear Skies. waytogo.gif


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#4 therealdmt

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 03:59 AM

Congratulations on the patience, learning and terrific session. You’re pretty hardy out there at -10°, but I guess it comes with the territory waytogo.gif

 

My first view of Orion as an adult returner to the hobby (after decades mostly off) blew me away, and it’s still remains a highlight to look at, and can still blow me away on a special night. I’m sure we all can understand how you felt.

 

Great to hear your progress!


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#5 northernmike

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 09:55 AM

 You’re pretty hardy out there at -10°, but I guess it comes with the territorywaytogo.gif

Yes , but a great one for a fisherman like me , lots of mountains and lakes. And i guess it comes with it's downside , and that is weather.

In november and march , when it's raining in Montreal , it's snowing here , and i'm only 60 miles away from Montreal. We have a difference

of sometimes 5 to 8 degrees (celcius). Those mountains were created when the glacier melted in the last ice age .

 

I sometimes go fishing in Chibougameau , witch is almost 700 miles from here , at the 50th parallel , the Mistassini lake is 160 km long (100 miles)

and it's in a class 1 bortle , the perfect place for viewing after a beautiful fishing night. 

I can navigate with my boat  until almost 10.30 pm , because i'm closer to the north pole than i am at my place. But i don't have to go that far to be

in a bortle 1 , my fishing spots are right in the middle of it , i usually drive about an hour to get there.

I love my place , a bit cold , but warm clothes and it does the job .

I have a great backyard for viewing , a bortle 5 , close to a 4 , but i made a small sturdy  platform (5' X 5') to put my scopes on and i put black sheets

around to darken my surroundings , i have a lot of neighbors that leaves their lights on through the entire night.confused1.gif 

When i got the dob in last night  , it was covered with frost , i couldn't use the telrad , it became frosted the moment i got out , so i used the

''unfriendly'' finder scope that came with the dob , a future upgrade is inevitable , a right angle correct image one.


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#6 therealdmt

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 10:39 AM

Yes , but a great one for a fisherman like me , lots of mountains and lakes. And i guess it comes with it's downside , and that is weather.

In november and march , when it's raining in Montreal , it's snowing here , and i'm only 60 miles away from Montreal. We have a difference

of sometimes 5 to 8 degrees (celcius). Those mountains were created when the glacier melted in the last ice age .

 

I sometimes go fishing in Chibougameau , witch is almost 700 miles from here , at the 50th parallel , the Mistassini lake is 160 km long (100 miles)

and it's in a class 1 bortle , the perfect place for viewing after a beautiful fishing night. 

I can navigate with my boat  until almost 10.30 pm , because i'm closer to the north pole than i am at my place. But i don't have to go that far to be

in a bortle 1 , my fishing spots are right in the middle of it , i usually drive about an hour to get there.

I love my place , a bit cold , but warm clothes and it does the job .

I have a great backyard for viewing , a bortle 5 , close to a 4 , but i made a small sturdy  platform (5' X 5') to put my scopes on and i put black sheets

around to darken my surroundings , i have a lot of neighbors that leaves their lights on through the entire night.confused1.gif

When i got the dob in last night  , it was covered with frost , i couldn't use the telrad , it became frosted the moment i got out , so i used the

''unfriendly'' finder scope that came with the dob , a future upgrade is inevitable , a right angle correct image one.

Wow, Bortle 1; I can’t imagine.

 

A RACI is definitely the way to go — your neck will thank you :) 


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#7 star69

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 11:09 AM

Patience is a key ingredient in this hobby. waytogo.gif

 

M42/43 never gets old. Orion is a treasure trove of objects to see. 


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#8 SeattleScott

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 11:28 AM

That eyepiece isn’t recommended for Dobs. It is more for Cassegrains or slow refractors.

With a Dob, eyepieces are like this:
Good edge correction
Wide AFOV
Low price
Pick any two

Granted there are some surprisingly good performers for relatively bargain prices, but for a 2” eyepiece that will perform well with your Dob, I would expect to pay $200+ in the US. Obviously more in Canadian dollars. You can get decent 2” eyepieces for half the price, but they will have noticeable abberations in the outer part of the view. Some are happy with them anyway for the price. But the one you are looking at is probably a bridge too far. Maybe half the view would be blurred. It simply isn’t designed for faster focal ratios. If you want a cheap, wide AFOV 2” eyepiece, don’t exceed 70 AFOV. And again, it still won’t be a sharp view across the field. The object is it being tolerable for the price, not perfection.

Scott
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#9 SeattleScott

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 11:36 AM

From the website you linked to:
https://telescopesca...f700cea8b&_ss=c

This is a narrower 70 AFOV eyepiece with a more complex design that should in theory be suitable for a Dob. It claims good edge correction in fast scopes. The eye relief looks a bit small for a 2” eyepiece, but it’s cheap. I don’t have any experience with the eyepiece but based on advertised specs, I would take this eyepiece over the 90 AFOV one for your scope in a heartbeat.

This eyepiece has a great reputation:
https://telescopesca...48bfd0f4c&_ss=c

As well as this one:
https://telescopesca...48bfd0f4c&_ss=c

So you can pay a premium for a great performer, or take your chances on a cheap unknown that looks good on paper. Or go with something that is cheap and known not to be good in fast scopes, but at least isn’t that bad.

Ok here is another link to the mystery eyepiece from the distributor:
https://antares.spac...mm-w70-eyepiece
Describes it as a six element modified Erfle, not 7 element eyepiece. So probably not as well corrected as originally hoped but probably fine for F6, maybe struggle a bit at F5? Hard to say. I don’t see a single review of the eyepiece at a quick glance.

Edited by SeattleScott, 21 November 2023 - 11:51 AM.

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#10 Astro_In_Tampa

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 08:41 PM

My first view of the Orion nebula was just a few weeks ago and it's burned into my brain! Every night that I get to go observe, I turn my scope back to Orion. It's really magical to me because it comes as close as anything I've seen yet in my rookie year of observing, that matches my expectations of what is out there beyond planets and pinpoint stars. I've seen the ring nebula and it was quite unremarkable. So when I first saw Orion, it was like WOW!! I actually did yell WOW!!

 

Anyway... Congratulations on the discovery! Looking forward to hearing about your next conquest!


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#11 northernmike

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 09:41 PM

I forgot to mention that my real first upgrade on my dob will be to remove the primary mirror and clean it. It's full of dust particules , i think it wasn't

stored properly by the previous owner , maybe the dust cover was forgotten here and there...  and still , i could clearly see the gas bands of Jupiter

yesterday and the cloud of the Orion nebula. So , i'm wandering , is my view going to be clearer once i remove the dust or just a slight difference?

Some video says to place a business card underneath the mirror  holder  for spacing and some say a piece of paper , which is the best method?

Do i need to clean the secondary mirror as well? if so , is it hard to put it back in place with perfect alignement?

 

Because i think that this scope (and according to reviews) is worthy of upgrades , there's a good fondation to begin with.

I couldn't find my first choice (used) , an Apertura , with the dual speed focuser and the good EP , but i can definitely upgrade this one on a long run.

Thanks for all the advice to everyone , it's appreciated , and that will prevent me from buying the wrong things.

My budget for a 2'' EP will be around 200$ (can) and i already ordered a Antares 2'' to 1,25'' twist lock adaptor and my next order will be a 2'' twist lock

so i will have both sizes to hold my EP firmly and scratch free for the future. I don't have the budget right now for a 27mm panoptic , but i hear real good

things  about this EP , seems to be a favorite among a lot of astronomers. Maybe a Christmas gift for next year ?smirk.gif


Edited by northernmike, 21 November 2023 - 09:43 PM.


#12 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 22 November 2023 - 01:39 AM

Then  i finally found a nebula , Orion , with the 20mm , i then switched to the 9mm and found that the view was better with the 20mm . the  9mm had a
darker background .
As you increase magnification, the exit pupil becomes smaller and the background field gets darker.  This is true of any eyepiece.

 

What expensive eyepieces provide is a wide, well-corrected-for-astigmatism field of view, greater eye relief, or both.  (Coma is not a typical eyepiece aberration.  It is produced by a fast, i.e., a low focal ratio, primary mirror in a Newtonian reflector.)

 

I would not recommend the Antares eyepiece in your post.  The 2" 30mm APM UFF (or one of the similar branded versions available) is a far better choice.

 

https://www.eyepiece..._p/17102030.htm


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#13 northernmike

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Posted 22 November 2023 - 02:45 AM

I found another Antares , waler serie 4 , 24mm :    https://ontarioteles...25mm-74-deg-af/

Would this one be more suitable for my dob?

And if I wait a little bit more and go for this one ? : https://ontarioteles...8-deg-eyepiece/

a little over budget , considering i'm renovating right now , but i could start a piggy bank and wait  if you think it's far better than the Antares.



#14 northernmike

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 08:14 PM

Ok , i've made additional homework and i think i found the right one.

My wife asked me  what i wanted for christmas and i replied ''a 2 EP'' . She knows nothing about them , so she asked me

the one i wanted and i replied the Orion 26mm Q70 for my f5,9 - 8'' dob.

Is it a good choice? because that EP is in our budget for the moment and looks pretty decent with good fov and er and perfect for my dob.

 

Also , i bought an antares 2'' to 1.25'' twist lock  adapter for my dob and i have another question : Do i need the 2'' original adapter

that goes in the focuser or can i put the antares directly in it ?

I think that i have to keep it , because the focal length of the EP will change without it.

In telescope watch , they call those those ''silly adapters'' and i concur . A single thumb knob to secure my future 2'' EP !  These adapters

are not  that expensive , so a new one is on my list . Suggestions would be appreciated ,

thanks!

 
 
20231126 193212

 

 

20231126 193222

Edited by northernmike, 26 November 2023 - 08:23 PM.

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#15 Echolight

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Posted 26 November 2023 - 08:20 PM

First time I viewed the Orion Nebula, I zoomed in on the Trapezium. Fantastic at relatively high power checking out the stellar nursery of tiny stars born out of the nebula.


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#16 therealdmt

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Posted 27 November 2023 - 01:24 AM

Ok , i've made additional homework and i think i found the right one.

My wife asked me  what i wanted for christmas and i replied ''a 2 EP'' . She knows nothing about them , so she asked me

the one i wanted and i replied the Orion 26mm Q70 for my f5,9 - 8'' dob.

Is it a good choice? because that EP is in our budget for the moment and looks pretty decent with good fov and er and perfect for my dob.

 

Also , i bought an antares 2'' to 1.25'' twist lock  adapter for my dob and i have another question : Do i need the 2'' original adapter

that goes in the focuser or can i put the antares directly in it ?

I think that i have to keep it , because the focal length of the EP will change without it.

In telescope watch , they call those those ''silly adapters'' and i concur . A single thumb knob to secure my future 2'' EP !  These adapters

are not  that expensive , so a new one is on my list . Suggestions would be appreciated ,

thanks!

 
 
 

 

 

It looks like you just put the Antares twist lock adapter in your focuser. It replaces your current 2"-to-1.25" adapter. When using a 2" eyepiece, you take the Antares out of the focuser (i.e., you put the 2" eyepiece directly into the 2" focuser).

 

Regarding the Q70, it depends what your expectations are. The outer about 30% part of the field of view will show some aberrations (basically, stars that aren’t perfect pinpoints) but the eyepiece will still be very usable. If a perfect or near perfect view across the field of view is the goal, a Q70 wouldn’t be the eyepiece to achieve it in your telescope. However, if a wide field of view is the goal and there is a willingness to accept abberations away from the center, then a Q70 could be fine. In the middle of the field of view, the view will still be very good. Positives for the Q70 include that it is nice and light, with good eye relief, as well as, of course, the affordable price. Attractive form and branding too, imo. It could be a good way to go to get your feet wet with 2" eyepieces, and then you could see for yourself what the whole mysterious 2" eyepiece thing is about. 

 

However, if going with a Q70, I think you might want to consider the 32mm Q70 instead. The main reason not to get too long of a focal length in a wide field eyepiece is that a bright sky background (due to light pollution) stays bright in the eyepiece, but in your case you have dark skies and so should be able to handle a 32mm eyepiece without issue. Meanwhile, the 26mm Q70 only gives you approximately 1.5° true field of view (TFOV) in your telescope, which isn’t much more than the approximately 1.3° TFOV that a 1.25" 32mm Plossl or a 68°/24mm eyepiece like the APM 24 UFF would give you. But if going to a 32mm Q70, you would get approximately 1.9° TFOV, which is a nice wide field of view for your scope. If going to 2", which involves a little bit of hassle of dealing with taking the adapter in and out of the focuser and possibly having to deal with balance issues due to bringing in one heavier 2" eyepiece among lighter 1.25" eyepieces, you might as well get the benefit of a noticeably wider field of view (so, the 32mm Q70 over the 26mm).

 

Alternative approaches could include saving up for an APM 30 UFF (perhaps the SkyRover version) or just sticking with the 1.25" format for widefield such as with a GSO 32mm Plossl (very affordable) or an APM 24 UFF (or the SkyRover version of the 24 UFF, etc.)


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#17 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 27 November 2023 - 01:51 AM

I agree that a 32mm Q70 makes more sense than the 26mm version.  However, the 30mm APM UFF is an excellent wide-field eyepiece and will perform far better.


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#18 northernmike

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Posted 27 November 2023 - 01:33 PM

Thanks to both of you , so 32mm it will be.

As for my focuser , i removed the 2'' to 1,25'' to install the antares adapter , but it's now in sitting in the 2'' adapter , and i presume that this

one has to stay in , otherwise i'll be to close to the secondary mirror , right?

And that adaptor has only one thumb screw ,as i mentioned ,  so replacing it with one with  a compression ring would be better, to preserve my

future EP.


Edited by northernmike, 27 November 2023 - 01:43 PM.


#19 Subguy762

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Posted 27 November 2023 - 01:40 PM

Thanks to both of you , so 32mm it will be.

As for my focuser , i removed the 2'' to 1,25'' to install the antares adapter , but it's now in sitting in the 2'' adapter , and i presume that this

one has to stay in , otherwise i'll be to close to the secondary mirror , right?

And that adaptor has only one thumb screw ,as i mentioned ,  so replacing it with a compression ring would be better, to preserve my

future EP.

 

Don't forget to ensure the field stop is within specification of your secondary mirror dimensions....     Big 2" wide view EPs can sometimes need a secondary mirror bigger than what is supplied with mass manufactured scopes...

 

I'm not sure where you check this.  It's something TeleVue told me, and said to call back at anytime if I plan to buy a wide view 2" from them so they can check on it.

 

For example, I cannot use the biggest panoptic they sell unless I compromise that my secondary, as is, cannot support that EP.  I think the biggest Nagler has this issue too, for my scope.



#20 therealdmt

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Posted 27 November 2023 - 09:28 PM

Biggest Panoptic is 42mm, which is a pretty long focal length. 32mm should be fine. I can’t personally specifically swear to exactly 32mm, but I regularly use a 30mm without issue (and have additionally used two completely different designs of 30mm eyepieces in my commercial Dob on occasion, too), as do lots of other people. 
 

Regarding the adapter, I don’t exactly understand the situation (if someone else does, please feel free to take over the answer here), but in the absence of other advice, I’d say that if it’s working how you have it set up, you can safely go with that. Shouldn’t be any issue to worry about smile.gif



#21 northernmike

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Posted 27 November 2023 - 11:24 PM

So sorry , i'm french , so sometimes it does'nt come out the way i want to express it.

They say that a picture is worth a thousand words , so i'll explain it with pictures.

 

This is my focuser with no adapter

20231127 222043

 

This is the 2'' to 1,25'' adapter that comes originaly with the scope. I use it for my goldline EP

20231127 222524

 

This is the 2'' to 2'' adapter that also came with the scope . I figure that i need it to use 2'' EP or do i put the EP  directly in the focuser?

20231127 222107

 

I need this adapter to use my twistlock , as so?

20231127 221541

Edited by northernmike, 27 November 2023 - 11:25 PM.

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#22 Astro_In_Tampa

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 10:13 PM

Total noob here myself, but.... It doesn't make sense to me that you would need an "adapter" to keep the same size opening. So I'd be willing to bet my kid that you just need to put the 2" EP into the focuser, and you're all set.

 

I suspect that what you really have is not an "adapter" but a focal length extension tube that will allow you to be able to achieve a higher magnification and still focus an image.

 

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.


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#23 northernmike

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Posted 29 November 2023 - 09:05 AM

Total noob here myself, but.... It doesn't make sense to me that you would need an "adapter" to keep the same size opening. So I'd be willing to bet my kid that you just need to put the 2" EP into the focuser, and you're all set.

 

I suspect that what you really have is not an "adapter" but a focal length extension tube that will allow you to be able to achieve a higher magnification and still focus an image.

 

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

I've bee using the 2'' to 1,25''  to put EP for viewing (I don't have a 2'' EP yet) ever since i bought that scope , otherwise , i won't be able to use 1,25'' EP

So that brings me to the question : do I need the 2'' adapter if I use a 2'' EP?

It's been cloudy since my last night of viewing and i'm renovating , my living room is packed with stuff and the scope is behind everything , so I can't

try it for the moment , that why i'm asking.
Thank for the reply Astro!


Edited by northernmike, 29 November 2023 - 09:05 AM.


#24 Astro_In_Tampa

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Posted 29 November 2023 - 06:44 PM

I've bee using the 2'' to 1,25''  to put EP for viewing (I don't have a 2'' EP yet) ever since i bought that scope , otherwise , i won't be able to use 1,25'' EP

So that brings me to the question : do I need the 2'' adapter if I use a 2'' EP?

It's been cloudy since my last night of viewing and i'm renovating , my living room is packed with stuff and the scope is behind everything , so I can't

try it for the moment , that why i'm asking.
Thank for the reply Astro!

The adapter is meant allow you to use 1.25" eyepieces in a 2" viewfinder, so no. If you have a 2" eyepiece, you just stick it in the viewfinder and you're good to go. 



#25 therealdmt

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Posted 29 November 2023 - 08:47 PM

Okay, good job with the pictures.

 

2" to 2" (without involving something like different threads or connecting something different about two non-matching parts) wouldn’t really be called an adapter, but rather an "extension tube" or more generally, as Astro_In_Tampa said above, a "spacer". Just a little terminology thing. 
 

As to whether you need it in, I’d say to do the experiment (that’s what I did with mine). Try bringing your eyepieces to focus with and without the extension tube. If an eyepiece comes to focus without the extension tube, you don’t need the extension tube for that eyepiece. Where it gets a little complicated is if one or two of your eyepieces need the extension tube but the rest cannot come to focus with the tube in. Hopefully all of your eyepieces can use the same setup (either extension tube in or extension tube off), but that is not guaranteed. That’s why they include the extension tube — so that the telescope can accommodate any of the various designs of eyepieces that you might put in the focuser.

 

If just one of your eyepieces needs the extension tube (but one or more others need the extension tube off) you could just leave the extension tube semi-permanently attached to that one eyepiece that needs it. Like that, you can figure out the smoothest way to proceed with your own eyepieces.

 

On my GSO Dob (different manufacturer), none of my eyepieces need the extension tube and so I put it away in a closet. Anyway, see how it goes with yours and your eyepieces


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