849 replies to this topic

[jrazz]

No one will know until the temperature rises above 0°F (-17.7°C) at night.... Preferably much above it!

 

[aznuge]

...

 

The lunar views were crisp and sharp without a hint of false color up to 112x (5mm Pentax XW), but at 140x (TeleVue 4mm Delite) some hints of purple were visible. Nothing objectionable for an ED doublet. Clavius, one of my favorite lunar features, was gorgeous. At 112x I noted two craterlets near Plato, just on the shore of Mare Imbrium, clearly depicted on Chart 3 in the Rukl Lunar atlas (red arrow).

 

 

In my innocence I imagined looking them up in one or other of my lunar references, but not even Robert Garfinkle's 3-volume Luna Cognita had anything specific about them. And seeing them is highly dependent on light angles -- in most images they look like a single elongated crater, though distinctly two craterlets visually on Friday night (as depicted by Rukl).

 

...

The case is strongly made for Rukl's, Atlas of the Moon!  And the challenge of finding these craterlets is now on my "to observe" list.  Thanks for this great observing post
 

Edited by aznuge, 22 January 2024 - 05:13 PM.

[Rich V.]

Rukl is similar to my favorite bird ID books; it's drawn, not a direct photo based atlas like Virtual Moon Atlas.  VMA shows more craterlets on the floor of Plato but the Rukl rendition of the two craters Fiske points out are better in Rukl as they are more clearly delineated from the shadows.

Attached Thumbnails

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[aznuge]

Rukl is similar to my favorite bird ID books; it's drawn, not a direct photo based atlas like Virtual Moon Atlas.  VMA shows more craterlets on the floor of Plato but the Rukl rendition of the two craters Fiske points out are better in Rukl as they are more clearly delineated from the shadows.

Good point about the detail of good drawings.  I would like to find a photo, though, that delineates the two craterlets in as much detail as the Rukl Atlas drawing...

 

Below is from 21st Century Atlas of the Moon; Wood and Collins; page 51.  Perhaps it is from the same original source as your photo above.  Only the slightest hint that there could be two craters (or a bisected one) hidden in that oblong shadow.

 

[hallelujah]

https://the-moon.us/...lato_Craterlets

 

Stan

[Rich V.]

A few more photos of Plato; the angle of light and shadow makes it hard to see that "double crater" as clearly as Rukl shows.

 

https://www.reddit.c...1ebea&rdt=38017

 

https://www.deepskyw...lato-2.4.12.jpg

 

https://live.staticf...a07d49fda_b.jpg

 

https://www.cloudyni...56612_thumb.jpg

[aznuge]

https://the-moon.us/...lato_Craterlets

 

Stan

The area in question is just out of view at bottom in that pic...

[aznuge]

A few more photos of Plato; the angle of light and shadow makes it hard to see that "double crater" as clearly as Rukl shows.

 

https://www.reddit.c...1ebea&rdt=38017

 

https://www.deepskyw...lato-2.4.12.jpg

 

https://live.staticf...a07d49fda_b.jpg

 

https://www.cloudyni...56612_thumb.jpg

The last two begin to add real detail to the point where I would be begin to question Rukl's drawing, perhaps...  Need to put a powerful supporting telescope on this

[PatientObserver]

Alas, one night of crystal clear skies followed by a week of clouds. I am not likely to see these two craters this moon cycle.

[Rich V.]

The last two begin to add real detail to the point where I would be begin to question Rukl's drawing, perhaps...  Need to put a powerful supporting telescope on this

I tried to find photos with more direct lighting or from the east in hopes of seeing two crater walls.  I'm sure Rukl had to work from photos but it's hard to find all the possible angles.  Interesting, though...  

 

https://i.ytimg.com/...xresdefault.jpg

 

https://cdn.astrobin...x0_PeZUwv2j.jpg

 

https://cs.astronomy...to_5F00_Tar.jpg

 

https://s3.amazonaws...ter_928x424.jpg

[Fiske]

Well, visually it did look like two craters. It took me a while studying images to decide that is what I viewed. A consequence of the light angles and complex terrain I guess. When I saw the Rukl chart, that was an ah-ha moment. I can't confirm with absolute confidence the structure as shown in his drawing.

 

Surely a subject for further observation. 

 

Only one of about a zillion such. 

Edited by Fiske, 22 January 2024 - 08:09 PM.

[Rich V.]

I've gone though a lot of photos to try to see Rukl's viewpoint for his drawing but have failed to find the right shot.      Just one more Plato photo with an easterly light; nice views of the Alpine Valley, Montes Alpes and the Rimae even if Fiske's "double crater" in question isn't resolved as well as I'd like.  The Plato area of the Moon is a worthy support telescope target.  Hard to run out of interesting areas to study on the Moon.  Might take a bigger telescope.      

 

https://i.pinimg.com...7fcddfa93ef.jpg

[Fiske]

I've gone though a lot of photos to try to see Rukl's viewpoint for his drawing but have failed to find the right shot.      Just one more Plato photo with an easterly light; nice views of the Alpine Valley, Montes Alpes and the Rimae even if Fiske's "double crater" in question isn't resolved as well as I'd like.  The Plato area of the Moon is a worthy support telescope target.  Hard to run out of interesting areas to study on the Moon.  Might take a bigger telescope.      

 

https://i.pinimg.com...7fcddfa93ef.jpg

Well, the three of us are well equipped in that category. 

[Fiske]

What would be a step up from the Manfrotto 475B / NitroTech 612 head mount combo? It's a very capable mount -- easily handles the Oberwerk 120XL-SD, and I'm guessing also the Televue TV-101 -- from a preliminary sanity check.

 

 

Criteria:

1. Manual only -- not a goto mount
2. Alt-az
3. Top loading -- not side loading
4. Reasonably light and easily carried -- the 475B/612 combo is easily carried around my yard. I don't typically carry it more than a few feet with the 120XL onboard, but don't mind two trips either. Maybe say under 20 pounds / 9 kg for tripod and head.
5. Sturdy center column
6. Max height at least 76 inches (prefer higher).

Edited by Fiske, 24 January 2024 - 02:29 PM.

[Rich V.]

Keep the 612 head and put it on a Manfrotto or Gitzo CF geared column tripod. 

 

The 44# rated Manfrotto MT057C4-G 057 Carbon Fiber Tripod with Geared Column has more capacity, is taller and weighs less than the 475.  Same capacity as the 161 but half the weight.

 

https://www.bhphotov...ipod.html/specs

 

Gitzo CF tripods with their optional geared column are big bucks but nice.  Higher capacity "pro" heads are big bucks, too.  

 

https://www.bhphotov...rand_name:gitzo

 

https://www.bhphotov...d column&sts=ma

 

Plenty of other options, too.  

[Fiske]

Thanks, Rich. 

 

The 475B/NT612 combo isn't going anywhere. I'm just thinking about putting on a second configuration in that category to handle either the TV-101 or the 120XL-SD, so they can be used side by side. 

 

The 161MK2B/Stellarvue M002C mount is capable of handling it, and a lot more, but it is heavier and side mount too, which frankly I don't like as well as top mount. I may just stick with that for the TV-101 -- still more easily deployed than the EON 120 on the same mount. Haven't really decided to add another mount configuration. Just pondering. 

 

Not sure what the next step up from the NT612 would be. And I know it would be some $$$. 

Edited by Fiske, 24 January 2024 - 02:57 PM.

[jrazz]

Maybe a 117b?
I always thought of it as an in between the 475 and 161

[mountain monk]

Plato craterlets… There were oodles of old threads and posts on this subject over the past decade. As usual, seeing is the main problem. My best was four with my 11” Teeter and a 6mm Ethos. We have great transparency around here but great seeing is rare. Tis a wonderful challenge though.

 

Dark skies.

 

Jack

[Rich V.]

I've seen the "big four" craterlets in both my 80mm apo and my 100mm BT.  It was as easy with the smaller scope as it was with the BT because the scope clearly has better optics, which seems to make up for both aperture and binocular summation.

[aznuge]

Thanks, Rich. 

 

The 475B/NT612 combo isn't going anywhere. I'm just thinking about putting on a second configuration in that category to handle either the TV-101 or the 120XL-SD, so they can be used side by side. 

 

The 161MK2B/Stellarvue M002C mount is capable of handling it, and a lot more, but it is heavier and side mount too, which frankly I don't like as well as top mount. I may just stick with that for the TV-101 -- still more easily deployed than the EON 120 on the same mount. Haven't really decided to add another mount configuration. Just pondering. 

 

Not sure what the next step up from the NT612 would be. And I know it would be some $$$. 

Gitzo series 5 (tall) with center elevator, with a 612 head works great and is light.  Any step up from the 612 would require an investment.  My answer to that is the HAZ31.  It is a nice step up, but is a goto.

[Fiske]

Here is the TV101 on the Manfrotto 475B/NT612 mount. This is easy to deploy (compared with the Ash Gibraltar mount I have used for many years), and I'm guessing will be considerably more steady.

 

 

This Sirui video head has come to my attention, though a 100mm ball adapter would be required to mount it on a tripod like the 475B or MT057C4-G 057.

Edited by Fiske, 24 January 2024 - 07:44 PM.

[Echolight]

I've been wanting to try a Feisol CB-70D 70mm ball head, sidesaddle, on my Bogen 3068. 

Maybe with an upgraded clamp.

I'm thinkin it could hold a 4 inch apo pretty well.

About 15 pounds for the tripod and head I think.

 

I think this is a 50mm holding this kinda heavy 80mm triplet.

 

Edit: OOPS! I broke rule #3!!

Edited by Echolight, 24 January 2024 - 10:20 PM.

[Alderamin]

I've gone though a lot of photos to try to see Rukl's viewpoint for his drawing but have failed to find the right shot. Just one more Plato photo with an easterly light; nice views of the Alpine Valley, Montes Alpes and the Rimae even if Fiske's "double crater" in question isn't resolved as well as I'd like. The Plato area of the Moon is a worthy support telescope target. Hard to run out of interesting areas to study on the Moon. Might take a bigger telescope.

https://i.pinimg.com...7fcddfa93ef.jpg

There are images of a very capable support telescope for moon observations: https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu

Direct link to the ROI: https://quickmap.lro...dC0yioA&proj=10

It shows an elongated shape with an indent. The topographic contours show a flat bottom.

[aznuge]

There are images of a very capable support telescope for moon observations: https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu

Direct link to the ROI: https://quickmap.lro...dC0yioA&proj=10

It shows an elongated shape with an indent. The topographic contours show a flat bottom.

Nice!  Pretty much shows an elongated trough with a flat bottom, and not two craters…

[Rich V.]

Those are good images, Alderamin.   Thanks