849 replies to this topic

[Terra Nova]

Ordered. 

 

(Went with 1.25" Clicklock adapter instead of micro-focusing adapter.)

That’s a nice T-2 to 1.25” eyepiece holder too. I have it on my Baader T-2 BBHS Dielectric Mirror Diagonal body. That’s another excellent diagonal that I use with the AT80EDT when looking for faint fuzzies.

[Jdillon]

I just bought a BT 100 SD and while I wait to find EPs that will fit it (a digression on a different forum) this topic started to interest me. I have always had hand-holdable binos for wide views while luxuriating in a zero gravity chair or under a p-gram mt. And for 60+ yrs I’ve had scopes for zeroing in at high power. Now I will have definitely-don’t-hang-em-around-your-neck BTs. but I sold my big apos and mts to downsize. I decided I needed something I could mount on a M2C and easily grab-n-go to the back yard so I got a gorgeous little AT92EDT. It’s now my only scope*. As a triplet apo it can provide mag beyond the BT though at only f5.5 there are rational limits. But ALSO as a companion to my 100 BTs it will have another virtue - it will offer much wider views than the BT - ca 5 deg with a Nag 31. Not sure yet how I’ll integrate the two in practice but the capabilities seem attractive.

 

*I also picked up a tiny but sharp (and surprisingly heavy) AT60ED. What a $400 wonder! It also accepts 2” EPs for even wider views and is small enough that I’m considering piggy-backing it on one or both of the other two as a finder. High-low-medium all covered! Well, we’ll see.

[Terra Nova]

I will experiment with the mirror-reversed Sky Safari configuration, but I already know my preference will be for correct-image star hopping. Has been for over two decades. 

The correct image diagonal is especially nice when pairing a binocular with a lower power telescope view. With the AT80EDT and the Baader CI Amici Astronomy diagonal and my 24mm Panoptic eyepiece, I get a gorgeous wide field at 20X that’s fun to pair with my Maven 18x56 or Zeiss 15x60 binoculars.

Edited by Terra Nova, 22 May 2024 - 07:52 PM.

[Fiske]

The correct image diagonal is especially nice when pairing a binocular with a lower power telescope view. With the AT80EDT and the Baader CI Amici Astronomy diagonal and my 24mm Panoptic eyepiece, I get a gorgeous wide field at 20X that’s fun to pair with my Maven 18x56 or Zeiss 15x60 binoculars.

I have a 24mm Panoptic which customarily adorns the Mini-Borg 60 ED, but I expect it will be comfy and at home on the AT82ED as well. 

Edited by Fiske, 22 May 2024 - 09:00 PM.

[Fiske]

I did a session with the AT80ED last night, observing doubles in Draco, Hercules, and Lyra.

 

I was using an Astronomics mirror diagonal, initially with a Baader Hyperion Zoom eyepiece, then switching to a combination of Televue 24mm Panoptic (23x), 13mm Nagler Type 6 (43x), and 4mm Delite (140x).

 

The idea with the Hyperion zoom is that it wouldn't be necessary to swap eyepieces, but the 24mm field is not wide, zoom is not parfocal, plus it changes the AFOV, and it is necessary to swap a barlow in and out to get a useful range of magnifications, so I gave up on it.

 

The combination of three Televue eyepieces is much easier for me to work with and swapping them out is not onerous either. A key thing to facilitate swapping eyepieces is to set the drag high enough that the scope stays in position. I used a combination of fluid drag controls and alt-az locks (partially tightened). Another realization is that 2-inch eyepieces are too heavy for this set up. Much better to stick with 1.25 inch eyepieces. The 24mm Panoptic is a superb wide-field eyepiece for the AT80ED.

 

I briefly experimented with mirror-reversing the Sky Safari chart, but found that the 24mm Panoptic field (nearly 3-degrees) is wide enough that I could navigate the mirror-reversed view in the scope without flipping the chart. When the Baader astro amici diagonal arrives, I'll do comparisons with the mirror diagonal. If the quality of the view suffers compared with the mirror diagonal, I will either return it or find a new home for it eventually. I have concluded that correct image star hopping is more of a nice-to-have than a must in this application.

 

What I do need to come up with is a convenient eyepiece tray of some type to keep 3-4 eyepieces near at hand while observing.

 

Here are the doubles I observed (or tried to observe).

 

STF 2130 / Arakis (5.55/5.69 sep 2.7"). Easily resolved at 140x. This is a fantastic double. And an easy star hop working from Rastaban and Kuma, which itself is a fantastic hand held binocular double star, one of the best in the sky (4.86/4.90 sep 62.1").

 

STF 2078 / 17 Draconis

BC 6.4/5.5 90.1"

AB 5.4/6.4 3.1"

 

This is another fine hand held binocular double star, which I have viewed repeatedly without realizing one of the components is itself an excellent double star for higher magnifications. Easily resolved at 140x.

 

STF 2054

AB 6.2/7.1 sep 0.9"

 

I was not able to resolve this, but after the session realized I was looking at the wrong star (2nd magnitude Eta Draconis instead of its 5th magnitude companion).  So, I will be back for another try on this one.  Eta is itself a double, but with a nearly 6th magnitude difference between components separated by only 4.4" would be challenging indeed.

 

STF 2084 / Zeta Herculis 

2.85/5.4 sep 1.5" 

 

Could not resolve. Another challenging double with a 2.5 magnitude difference by components with under 2 arc-seconds of separation.

 

STF 2382 -- 5.01/6.10 sep 2.1"

STF 2383 -- 5.21/5.38 sep 2.4"

Lyra Double Double

 

Both doubles resolved. The seeing was poor -- almost like looking through rippling water.  But in moments of better seeing both components of both doubles were cleanly resolved.

 

Anything under 2-seconds is going to have to be evenly matched. And for a manual alt-az configuration, 140x is getting close to the practical maximum, just from a mechanical point of view. But that still leaves many, many fine doubles for easy observation amidst binocular telescope star field rambles. 

Edited by Fiske, 23 May 2024 - 04:05 PM.

[revans]

Here is an interesting entry into the support scope world...

 

Rick

 

 

Of course, someone is sure to say "Why not replace the scope with a BT-100..."

[Fiske]

 

Here is an interesting entry into the support scope world...

 

Rick

 

 

 

Of course, someone is sure to say "Why not replace the scope with a BT-100..."

 

How stable is that setup, Rick?

 

Small refractors as support telescopes serve a different purpose than BTs. They are better suited for high magnification viewing. So, at least that is my reason why not. 

[revans]

How stable is that setup, Rick?

 

Small refractors as support telescopes serve a different purpose than BTs. They are better suited for high magnification viewing. So, at least that is my reason why not. 

Well, adding the binoviewer is a little "iffy" as far as stability.  It can be done, but probably the better way to use the scope is like this:

 

 

The fork mount and tripod seem fine for visual.  That much is very stable.  It is adding extras to the back of the scope that makes stability interesting.

 

There are a lot of reports that the focuser is "wobbly."  It is, but this is easily fixed by adjusting the top 2mm hex head bolt nearest the front.  About half a turn and the focuser motion was fine and the wobble went away. I've only used it in daylight as it just arrived this morning.  But the optics seem sharp across the field.  No doubt there will be some CA on bright stars and I'll see how bad that is tonight, but as I am happy with what my old Celestron 80mm f/5 scope does, I expect this scope will also be pleasant to use visually.  My first impression is that it is a seriously good buy for the money (and I paid full price).

 

The scope comes with rings and a Vixen type mounting plate.  I bought a NeewerTelescope Dovetail Saddle Clamp for Vixen Style Rail Bar Plates on Amazon.  This has a 3/8" threaded hole with a removeable slotted 1/4" adapter screwed into it.  I removed this 1/4" adapter and was able to screw the Neewer saddle clamp onto my Oberwerk 280mm fork head on the Monfrotto tripod shown. The Vixen plate on the bottom of the scope clamps into this Neewer saddle.  It is very stable.

 

 

Update:  I was able to spend the night under the stars with this rig and put my observations using it here in the Deep Sky Imaging forum:

 

https://www.cloudyni...p-night-vision/

 

 

Rick

[Fiske]

What brand and model of telescope is it?

 

I have that same Neewer saddle, which is used to attach the Mini Borg 60ED to the dovetail rail on the 120 EON.

 

I have not found forks to be as stable as fluid video heads. The Oberwerk XL280 is excellent. Kevin reworked the grease and etc. on mine and it is smooth and pleasing to position. The fork on my Televue Ash Gibraltar is not stable at all. Really, because of the base fitting. The most stable commercial mount I have owned is a Celestron CI-700, which is an equatorial mount sized for the C11 SCT, which it readily handles.

 

It looks like clear skies tonight. I'm planning to observe with the Celestron 6SE alongside one of the BTs. I might get the AT80ED out as well. I am surprisingly pleased with that little scope. I think it won't resolve much under 2 seconds, but for really challenging doubles I can use one of the larger scopes.

[Fiske]

Here is my driveway observatory last night, Friday 24 May 2024. I started off with the Celestron 6SE, but later switched to the AT80ED, which has established itself as my favorite support telescope. 

 

 

It was a beautiful evening with clear skies, pleasingly cool temps in the mid 60s, and a light breeze. I took an SQM-L reading of 18.04 MPSAS. Thunderstorms are predicted tonight, so it doesn't look like back-to-back observing sessions are likely. 

 

I started with the 100XL+SD and 7mm Pentax XW eyepieces (80x) observing Porrima in Virgo (3.48/3.53 sep 3.3"). I was able to resolve the double, but it was not a pleasing view because the magnitudes of the components are too bright for sharp resolution in binocular telescopes of this design. They don't match the sharpness and resolution of premium APO refractors. This is the type of observation where something like a Borg binoscope (for considerably more money) I imagine would be superb. Or, for a LOT less money, one may choose to observe it with an AT80ED.  The same can be said for the double star Castor in Gemini, and would apply to any double star with components brighter than, say 4th magnitude.

 

It has been many months since I observed with the Celestron 6SE, and I had things to relearn. I tried to do a 3-star alignment twice, and both alignments failed. So I switched to a 2-star alignment, which is a lot easier and faster to do and will be my preferred alignment technique going forward. Once aligned, the scope reliably slewed to selected objects, and tracked accurately. Well, that is, it reliably slewed to SAO stars after I remembered the SAO number entry process with the Clestron hand control -- enter the left for digits (including the leading zero Sky Safari does not display for SAO numbers, and THEN scroll through SAO catalog entries to reach the desired star. What could be easier, right? And plus, fiddling with the red-dot finder was necessary to begin with (I thought I had left it aligned). And PLUS, the darn thing needs to be collimated -- it wasn't able to resolve closer doubles. 

 

So yeah, the 6SE is a project compared with the simple and ready-for-action AT80ED. 

 

Worth the effort to master for the convenience of tracking. Also, the Baader Hyperion zoom provides a useful range of magnifications without the need to swap in or out a Barlow lens (62.5-187.5x). But, honestly, it is never going to achieve most-favored support telescope status. 

 

A conclusion I have reached about support telescope eyepieces is that for my needs (primarily double stars in urban skies), for 2-inch eyepieces are unnecessary. Something like the Televue 24mm Panoptic provides a sufficiently wide field for easy positioning (about 3-degrees with the AT80ED) and swapping 1.25 inch eyepieces is easy compared with swapping between 2-inch and 1.25-inch eyepieces. 

 

Another somewhat surprising (to me) conclusion I have come to is that finder scopes are not an advantage for refractors used as support telescopes. They complicate setup, are a nuisance to use from a seated position versus just looking through the main scope, and make balance problematic – particularly true for the Stellarview M002C head, which works much better w/out the MiniBorg 60ED on board. Finder scopes are much more easily used on Dobs because both eyepieces are positioned closely together. Observing with a BT enables one to become extremely familiar with a star field, so navigating with a wider mirror-reversed view is not difficult. For myself, I see no need for mirror-reversing Sky Safari views to locate objects after exploring a star field with a BT.

 

After all the analysis, I spent an hour or so happily exploring doubles around Ursa Minor with a combination of the 100XL-SD (I switched to Pentax 20XWs after the Porrima observation), the AT80ED, and the Canon 15x50 IS. And also enjoyed constellation sweeping with the Maven b.2 7x45 and GPO 10x50 Passion HD. More on that in the Adventures with Binocular Double star topic, but here is one observation from the session which nicely combines the 100XL-SD and AT80ED views. 

 

STF 2452

18h43m +75*47'

6.73/7.35 sep 5.669" pa 217.1*

 

Both stars white. Primary slightly brighter. Just resolved with the 100XL-SD at 28x (20mm XWs). It would be easy to resolve with the 14XWs. Easily located with the AT80AD and beautifully resolved at 80x (Televue 7mm Nagler Type 6). The advantage of observing with the 100XL at lower magnification is the ease of navigation in wide, enjoyable fields. Having a support telescope to hand provides the best of both worlds -- wide field BT views and higher magnification support telescope views.

Edited by Fiske, 25 May 2024 - 02:15 PM.

[Harry Jacobson]

Fiske,

 

It strikes me that if you used a green laser as your finder on your support scope, you could see it through your binoculars and aim the scope that way. That’s what I imagine doing when my scope arrives.

 

And no bending over. 

 

Harry

Edited by Harry Jacobson, 25 May 2024 - 03:54 PM.

[jrazz]

You have it backwards... Use your 8x or 10x binoculars to familiarize yourself with the sky and find what you want to observe and then use the GLP on your BT to align to that view while looking through your 10x.

 

Works like a charm!

[Harry Jacobson]

It ain’t backwards! All instruments are straight up correct image! Maybe Fiske needs two GLPs. One for the BT and one for the support scope.

 

EDIT: Then he could have light saber duels 

Edited by Harry Jacobson, 25 May 2024 - 04:03 PM.

[Fiske]

I seem able to find things without a GLP. Somehow...

 

 

 

Nothing against the GLP, but it doesn't resonate with my celestial spirituality.

 

  

Edited by Fiske, 25 May 2024 - 04:04 PM.

[Fiske]

It ain’t backwards! All instruments are straight up correct image! Maybe Fiske needs two GLPs. One for the BT and one for the support scope.

 

I spent some time today working on garage organization. Which is going to take years. 

 

NO MORE PURCHASES!!!!!

 

  

[revans]

What brand and model of telescope is it?

 

I have that same Neewer saddle, which is used to attach the Mini Borg 60ED to the dovetail rail on the 120 EON.

 

I have not found forks to be as stable as fluid video heads. The Oberwerk XL280 is excellent. Kevin reworked the grease and etc. on mine and it is smooth and pleasing to position. The fork on my Televue Ash Gibraltar is not stable at all. Really, because of the base fitting. The most stable commercial mount I have owned is a Celestron CI-700, which is an equatorial mount sized for the C11 SCT, which it readily handles.

 

It looks like clear skies tonight. I'm planning to observe with the Celestron 6SE alongside one of the BTs. I might get the AT80ED out as well. I am surprisingly pleased with that little scope. I think it won't resolve much under 2 seconds, but for really challenging doubles I can use one of the larger scopes.

It is a pretty inexpensive achromat made by SVBONY.  It is a 90mm f/5.5 achromat without fancy glass.  It is built like a tank and has a 1:10 focuser.  I just received it in the mail yesterday.  I will use it as a daytime spotting scope (with erecting prism) and as a deep sky support scope for my binoculars.  It costs anywhere between $200 and $300 depending on sales/promotions that seem to be frequent.

 

Rick

[jrazz]

I spent some time today working on garage organization. Which is going to take years. 

 

NO MORE PURCHASES!!!!!

 

  

Well so am I

 

(Working on garage cleanup... Purchases are a totally different story!)

Edited by jrazz, 25 May 2024 - 04:45 PM.

[Echolight]

I agree.  I would say that when I use binoculars or a BT, I mostly star hop with them.  Sometimes I'll put a BT on the HAZ31 mount.  That is only worth doing if the weather is going to be good for a number of hours and I'm not just viewing through a half hour break in the clouds. 

 

For a support scope I think I value extreme portability and ease of use.  Any GOTO sort of mount starts to infringe on that.  I like to just walk outside with the binoculars around my neck, a support scope with head and tripod all connected up in my left hand, and my observing stool in my right hand. The binoculars are probably going to be 15x70.  The support scope is probably an 80mm f/5 achromat and the tripod having a 3-way photo head.  The binoculars are going to weigh about 4 lbs and the tripod, head, and support scope a total of about 8 lbs. 

 

That is about as complicated as I want most of the time.  But there are days when it is worth using something heavier and more complicated.

 

Rick

I use that type of telescope as a support for naked eye viewing 

[PatientObserver]

I spent some time today working on garage organization. Which is going to take years.

NO MORE PURCHASES!!!!!

See, I need to purchase shelves to clean up my garage.

[Fiske]

See, I need to purchase shelves to clean up my garage.

I assembled yet another steel shelving unit from Costco today, to store various scopes and tripods and clear floor space.

 

[Fiske]

It is a pretty inexpensive achromat made by SVBONY.  It is a 90mm f/5.5 achromat without fancy glass.  It is built like a tank and has a 1:10 focuser.  I just received it in the mail yesterday.  I will use it as a daytime spotting scope (with erecting prism) and as a deep sky support scope for my binoculars.  It costs anywhere between $200 and $300 depending on sales/promotions that seem to be frequent.

 

Rick

I have an AT80 achromat that is truly built like a tank. From way back in the day. I need to find a home for it. 

 

[f18dad]

I assembled yet another steel shelving unit from Costco today, to store various scopes and tripods and clear floor space.

 

 

Those COSTCO rolling steel shelves are so useful. I own about 10 of them for various purposes. Truly versatile space savers that can be easily moved around and out of the way. I cut custom masonite smooth surface liners for each shelf so objects don't get hung up on the grate works.

[Fiske]

Those COSTCO rolling steel shelves are so useful. I own about 10 of them for various purposes. Truly versatile space savers that can be easily moved around and out of the way. I cut custom masonite smooth surface liners for each shelf so objects don't get hung up on the grate works.

I'll have to count how many I own.  

 

(More than a couple.  )

[Echolight]

I'd like to get rid of all the stuff that would need 10 rolling shelves.

[Bill Barlow]

It seems the C6 SCT is striking out with you Fiske.  It should easily outperform the 80ED but with these scopes if the collimation is not close to perfect the views suffer, especially like you said in resolving closer double stars.  Have you tried using the C6 on one of your other mounts where you just star hop with it?   
 

I was also out this past Friday with the 92 Stowaway and 10x50 binoculars.  Had a nice session and was able to view globular M3 and even galaxies M104 and M66 with the refractor.   I viewed Castor and it is actually a triple star system.  If you look a little off to the left (or to the right in a SCT or refractor since the field is reversed) you will see a red dwarf star that is a part of this group.  Nice deep red/orange color.  
 

Bill