44 replies to this topic

[tarbat]

I'm now seriously considering pre-ordering the Vespera PRO.  I can pre-order from a UK dealer for £5, so a low risk option at this time.

 

Comparing it to my ZWO Seestar S50, it appears to have several key advances:

1. A 45% improvement in resolution per pixel, 1.65 arc/secs vs 2.39 arc/secs.
2. A 190% improvement in the standard field of view.
3. A 630% improvement in the mosaic (CovalENS) field of view.

Have I interpreted the specifications correctly?

 

And has anyone found detailed specs for the IMX676 sensor, giving details of read noise, dynamic range, etc.

 

Edited by tarbat, 30 November 2023 - 11:44 AM.

[alan.dang]

In theory, Starvis2 sensors should beat Starvis1 sensors so the Pro should be better than the raw pixel geometry specs suggest.

In practice, the Passengers seems to have a harder time getting results compared to the Classic. Not sure if the Starvis2 generates more heat, so it’s not as good for Astro even though it may be better for low light surveillance. Is it because everyone is trying to shoot with the Passengers during half to full to half moon and the Classic shots represent much better stellar weather?

[Psion]

Unfortunately, I could not find read noise of the IMX676 sensor anywhere.

Edited by Psion, 30 November 2023 - 12:07 PM.

[tarbat]

Unfortunately, I could not find read noise of the IMX676 sensor anywhere.

The closest I can find is the Starvis2 sensor IMX678, so possibly a close relative to the IMX676? Same pixel size of 2um, but different resolution of 3840x2160.  At the HCG point of gain=182, that has:

• Read noise of 0.8e.
• Dynamic range of 10.5 stops.
• FW of around 1080Ke.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[tarbat]

Standard field of View comparison (not CovalENS).

 

Edited by tarbat, 30 November 2023 - 12:22 PM.

[jprideaux]

If it only cost £5 to pre-order from a UK reseller, you might as well do it.

 

Vaonis has a history of giving preferential treatment to resellers for inventory over people pre-ordering directly from Vaonis so a good move would be to pre-order from a re-seller.

[Psion]

It looks like the same technology and sensor control, but the IMX676 is bigger.

[eyeoftexas]

If it only cost £5 to pre-order from a UK reseller, you might as well do it.

 

Vaonis has a history of giving preferential treatment to resellers for inventory over people pre-ordering directly from Vaonis so a good move would be to pre-order from a re-seller.

Is there a US reseller taking pre-orders like this?  I checked several and none were offering the Pro version.

[arunk]

If it only cost £5 to pre-order from a UK reseller, you might as well do it.

 

Vaonis has a history of giving preferential treatment to resellers for inventory over people pre-ordering directly from Vaonis so a good move would be to pre-order from a re-seller.

Currently it is less expensive to buy it directly from Vaonis as they are giving significant discount.

[Psion]

What do we actually know about Vespera PRO today, and can ordinary users work with this device?

 

1. Vespera will allow you to take Dark Frame, Bias Frame and Flat Frame. I think many users don't know what they are talking about.

2. This kind of processing requires a lot of practice, and you need to use good astronomy software, not regular photo processing software or use Vaonis to process, which will allow you to work with RAW 16-bit and read calibration frames. Still, the user will have to take them with the correct exposure and gain settings. Maybe even allow automated Dark and Flat image capture? Hard to say.

3. Will the processing in Vespera be of sufficient quality and speed? Even on a powerful computer, it's not exactly the fastest, especially if we have thousands of images, and it can take many hours to use Raspberry.

 

There are a lot of unresolved questions about the PRO version; the IMC676 sensor is not used anywhere, and we don't know the exact specifications. Users have high hopes for this model, prematurely, in my opinion, I would be cautious about evaluating a virtual Vespera just yet.

[tarbat]

Question: Based on what we know about other Vespera models, will the internal battery inside the Vespera Pro be user replaceable?  So if at some time in the future the battery fails (as they do!), will the user be able to replace it?

[tarbat]

Agreed. That's why I've pre-ordered through a UK dealer, only requiring a refundable £5 deposit. Sure, that means paying the full price, but I'll have a bit more information about the PRO by the time I have to confirm my order.  If I still have doubts, I'll delay my order until late summer. May is not a good time for me to start using a new telescope, since we're then into the permanent daylight period of the year until late August.

 

There are a lot of unresolved questions about the PRO version; the IMC676 sensor is not used anywhere, and we don't know the exact specifications. Users have high hopes for this model, prematurely, in my opinion, I would be cautious about evaluating a virtual Vespera just yet.

[eyeoftexas]

Agreed. That's why I've pre-ordered through a UK dealer, only requiring a refundable £5 deposit. Sure, that means paying the full price, but I'll have a bit more information about the PRO by the time I have to confirm my order.

This is why I was asking if there was a US dealer that takes pre-orders. When I pre-ordered by Seestar I didn’t have to pay until it was ready to ship to me, and by then I was ok with paying for it.

[Psion]

Agreed. That's why I've pre-ordered through a UK dealer, only requiring a refundable £5 deposit. Sure, that means paying the full price, but I'll have a bit more information about the PRO by the time I have to confirm my order.  If I still have doubts, I'll delay my order until late summer. May is not a good time for me to start using a new telescope, since we're then into the permanent daylight period of the year until late August.

I don't know why Vaonis chooses such bad dates for product launches. It's completely wrong marketing-wise. If people can't try the instruments, nobody wants to buy them, that's how it works in astronomy.

[alan.dang]

I imagine they are a small enough company that they cannot just sit on inventory and just have to sell as quickly as possible. Passengers was sold specifically on the goodwill generated by Stellina and the original Vespera.

If they don’t improve the software by the time of the new moon, they are going to see a higher rate of returns than the original.

[Psion]

I know Passenger has a great camera, and the pictures will be great when the weather is good. I processed it for a Tiff forum member today, and in 23 minutes, it's beautiful data.

[alan.dang]

Hopefully the striations in mosaic mode can be corrected with manual stacking or they just need to do some pre-blending crops if the fall off at the edges affects it somehow.

Good to hear that the raw data is good and it’s just fine tuning the processing.

[Psion]

That's usually caused by the moon and haze in the upper atmosphere. It won't be a problem in clear skies.

[tarbat]

Sadly I've decided to cancel my pre-order for the moment. I thought about it, and I have a couple of remaining concerns:

1. With delivery in May, I'd be unlikely to be able to test my purchase until August, due to the long summer days we get here at 58°N. Sunset is at 9:30pm, and astro-twilight disappears on the 20th May. So I'd be well outside any return period if I'm not happy with the PRO. Having seen the problems plaguing some Passenger buyers, I've lost a bit of confidence in Vaonis.
    
2. I do have concerns about Vaonis' ability to deliver all the software changes that are likely to be needed to cope with the new focal length and sensor, and the need to calibrate with darks, flats, and biases, etc.

So, I'll see how the launch goes in May, and then come September, when night-time darkness returns, I'll decide whether to get a PRO.

 

I'm now seriously considering pre-ordering the Vespera PRO.  I can pre-order from a UK dealer for £5, so a low risk option at this time.

[GSBass]

 I did get confirmation that May was still the ship date, currently all processing is done on scope so there should not be any changes to singularity for the pro other than triggers for taking the various calibration frames. If your not going to have a chance to use it though it’s sounds smart to wait, we will probably see another announced scope this summer so that might be exciting. 

 

Sadly I've decided to cancel my pre-order for the moment. I thought about it, and I have a couple of remaining concerns:

1. With delivery in May, I'd be unlikely to be able to test my purchase until August, due to the long summer days we get here at 58°N. Sunset is at 9:30pm, and astro-twilight disappears on the 20th May. So I'd be well outside any return period if I'm not happy with the PRO. Having seen the problems plaguing some Passenger buyers, I've lost a bit of confidence in Vaonis.
    
2. I do have concerns about Vaonis' ability to deliver all the software changes that are likely to be needed to cope with the new focal length and sensor, and the need to calibrate with darks, flats, and biases, etc.

So, I'll see how the launch goes in May, and then come September, when night-time darkness returns, I'll decide whether to get a PRO.

[jprideaux]

At the price-point of the Pro, there probably won’t be a problem just buying one from a reseller after it comes out. It might cost a few hundred more but then again Vaonis won’t have your money either for six months (or more) before you get it. I also wonder how automated the calibration frames will be. If it is too much work, then one might as well just put together a custom rig. Hopefully they will have some kind of way to make it easy to still appeal to those wanting ease of use.

[GSBass]

It would surprise me if they did not make it super easy… definitely watching with interest

At the price-point of the Pro, there probably won’t be a problem just buying one from a reseller after it comes out. It might cost a few hundred more but then again Vaonis won’t have your money either for six months (or more) before you get it. I also wonder how automated the calibration frames will be. If it is too much work, then one might as well just put together a custom rig. Hopefully they will have some kind of way to make it easy to still appeal to those wanting ease of use.

[anurag1212]

Does anyone else actually have the pro on preorder or is it just me?

[GSBass]

There are a few here and a ton in the fb groups, I had one on preorder but decided to wait til after it hit the street and evaluate before pulling the trigger…. But I may still decide to keep using my classic for a while and see if stellina pro is announced next summer…. In other words, no firm decisions for me yet

Does anyone else actually have the pro on preorder or is it just me?

[anurag1212]

I originally posted this on the 'vaonis new product reveal' thread, but this seems to be the more appropriate location:

 

Looks like the vespera pro sample images on vaonis.com were actually taken with the Pro, confirmed by Vaonis! Care to pixel peep and share some insights? link to the FB post : https://www.facebook...mibextid=W9rl1R

 

Some dude has cropped the vespera and pro to compare orion's details:

vespera pro vs vespera vs stellina

 

Of course, we dont know the imaging parameters for the pro image

 

There are a few here and a ton in the fb groups, I had one on preorder but decided to wait til after it hit the street and evaluate before pulling the trigger…. But I may still decide to keep using my classic for a while and see if stellina pro is announced next summer…. In other words, no firm decisions for me yet

 

Edited by anurag1212, 08 December 2023 - 09:39 PM.