18 replies to this topic

[John the Space Traveler]

Any advice on the best astro-camping spots within 30 minutes of Quartzsite, AZ?

In a week I'm heading there with some friends, mainly for daytime stuff like gem and mineral sales, but at night I was hoping to do a little observing and wide-field sky imaging.  We'll be camping for one night.  I searched CL for Quartzsite info, but most of it fell outside of my 30 minute drive to town.

To be honest, because Quartzsite is HUGELY popular with RV folks who light up up their rigs like Vegas (have you seen Furnace Creek in Death Valley since that 200-300 RV site opened??!!), I have low expectations for BLM land close to town.  I'm certain I'll see tons of headlights on the 2 major highways in the area.  Plus, while the surrounding deserts are technically a Bortle 2, light pollution maps show big and little light domes along most parts of the horizon.

 

Any advice to somebody seeking a decently protected astro site within a 30 minute drive of town?  We have a 4WD pickup truck and can do moderately bad roads.  Lat/lon coords are appreciated.

 

Thanks ahead of time.  

Edited by John the Space Traveler, 06 January 2024 - 01:01 AM.

[stardustborn]

Sounds great, I'm jealous.  I used to be a rock hound. Geology minor. Like camping.  But living on LI makes it difficult.  

 

What's the Bortle number at Quartzite?  2?   Let me get my violin...

 

Is something that was never asked before.

Edited by stardustborn, 05 January 2024 - 08:31 PM.

[Astro-Master]

There is the Antenna Site used by the Phoenix Astronomical Society about 35 miles east of Quartzsite, it has its own Clear Sky Chart and is in a dark blue zone on the Light Pollution Map.  I believe it's less than a mile south of Interstate 10.

Edited by Astro-Master, 05 January 2024 - 08:32 PM.

[vsteblina]

The great skies in the southwest are just a memory today.

 

That said, they are marginal.  The real bad news is that you cannot drive away from them anymore.  Leave the LA light dome and you meet the Las Vegas light dome, run away from Las Vegas and you meet Phoenix.

 

Not sure that it is worthwhile to drive away from Quartzsite.  It isn't the local light pollution, it is the urban areas.  I would take your telescope and stay put, the skies are fine, not great.  I found most RV'ers do turn out their nights at night, except in developed campgrounds, but that is not Quartzsite.

 

Here are the local regulations for the Long-Term Visitor Areas on BLM.  Not sure if your staying there or the free camping areas for 14 days on BLM managed lands.  But the regulations are pretty much the same regarding lights, etc. See the quiet hours.  Lights usually go out when generators go out.

 

https://www.blm.gov/...entaryRules.pdf

 

I would be careful of the Antenna Site given the border situation today.  Bad incidents there years ago, when the border was more secure than today.  Go there with friends, the more of them the better.

 

I would camp in Organ Pipes National Park, but I forget how far it was from Quartzsite.  The campground might not be real dark, but at least it would be safe.  There is a BLM site just south of Ajo that gets lots of snowbirds.  That would be safer heading out on your own anywhere south of I-8.

 

I have great memories of the southwest and the dark skies when I worked for the NPS in the late 1970's.

 

It would be wonderful that see those skies again.

Edited by vsteblina, 05 January 2024 - 09:02 PM.

[John the Space Traveler]

 

What's the Bortle number at Quartzite?  2?   Let me get my violin...

Haha!     I understand how it sounds.  I see you're from the east coast, and I know how poor your skies are, so I feel for you.  I too live in the photon swamp of Los Angeles (Bortle 9, the worst), so Quartzsite's B2 skies are many times a trade up for sure.  But hear me out.

In the open desert (and Quartzsite is really flat and open desert, with occasional low mountains), bright point sources are easily seen for 40-50 miles, not just the glow from them.  Regardless of how dark a B2 zenith is, when you look at eye level around your camp site, or do Milky Way/landscape imaging below 45 degrees, those point sources hit your eyes and diminish your dark adaptation.  The light domes also really show up. 

 

Death Valley is the only B1 spot in CA, and yet about 3/4 of the horizon has obvious sky glows, including from Los Angeles over 220 miles away.  Las Vegas is not only a bright glow 100 miles to the SE, but that darn Luxor Hotel Sky Beam (world's brightest artificial light) is a bright pillar shining to a point at least 60 degrees high.  Imaging in much of the desert Southwest at 45 degrees down to the horizon is pretty much always fogged to some degree. 

 

So yes, I know by comparison to your situation I sound whiney, but at the cost of gas to drive 3-5 hours each way for B3 or better skies, I hope you can cut me a little slack. 

Edited by John the Space Traveler, 06 January 2024 - 03:50 AM.

[John the Space Traveler]

There is the Antenna Site used by the Phoenix Astronomical Society about 35 miles east of Quartzsite, it has its own Clear Sky Chart and is in a dark blue zone on the Light Pollution Map.  I believe it's less than a mile south of Interstate 10.

Thanks for sharing.  I saved it.  Here is a map link for those interested: https://maps.app.goo...xYDM1K8njMQMpo7

 

Just out of curiosity, what is the light like from the I-10?  Do you have to look at passing cars or are you shielded?

Edited by John the Space Traveler, 06 January 2024 - 03:51 AM.

[John the Space Traveler]

The great skies in the southwest are just a memory today.

 

That said, they are marginal.  The real bad news is that you cannot drive away from them anymore.  Leave the LA light dome and you meet the Las Vegas light dome, run away from Las Vegas and you meet Phoenix.

 

Not sure that it is worthwhile to drive away from Quartzsite.  It isn't the local light pollution, it is the urban areas.  I would take your telescope and stay put, the skies are fine, not great.  I found most RV'ers do turn out their nights at night, except in developed campgrounds, but that is not Quartzsite.

 

Here are the local regulations for the Long-Term Visitor Areas on BLM.  Not sure if your staying there or the free camping areas for 14 days on BLM managed lands.  But the regulations are pretty much the same regarding lights, etc. See the quiet hours.  Lights usually go out when generators go out.

 

https://www.blm.gov/...entaryRules.pdf

 

I would be careful of the Antenna Site given the border situation today.  Bad incidents there years ago, when the border was more secure than today.  Go there with friends, the more of them the better.

 

I would camp in Organ Pipes National Park, but I forget how far it was from Quartzsite.  The campground might not be real dark, but at least it would be safe.  There is a BLM site just south of Ajo that gets lots of snowbirds.  That would be safer heading out on your own anywhere south of I-8.

 

I have great memories of the southwest and the dark skies when I worked for the NPS in the late 1970's.

 

It would be wonderful that see those skies again.

So when I did a map search for Organ Pipes National Park, I got a place a bit outside of Melbourne, Australia.  That's a little farther than I wanted to drive.     Digging deeper I found Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument.  That's a 3 hour drive into AZ.  Not as bad as Australia, but still a bit too far for this trip.  However, you gave me an idea for a future visit.  Thanks!

I also appreciate the BLM Rules sheet.  I'd never read them before.  Thank you!

[Jon Isaacs]

 

The great skies in the southwest are just a memory today.

 

That said, they are marginal. The real bad news is that you cannot drive away from them anymore. Leave the LA light dome and you meet the Las Vegas light dome, run away from Las Vegas and you meet Phoenix.

 

I have to disagree. 

 

Light domes are real but they do affect the entire sky. The skies are still clear and transparent. They can be quite wonderful... 

 

Quartzite in the winter is invaded by snowbirds. I agree with Astro-Master, head east for the Antenna site. I've never been there at night but I did check it out during the day, it's quite hidden from I-10, or so it seems.

 

The other option would be to take the 60 east and see what you could find 4 wheeling. Lightpollution Atlas 2022 looks promising. I use it rather than light pollution maps because it uses recent data and seems to better correspond to what I measure.

 

https://djlorenz.git...erlay/dark.html

 

Jon

[dustyc]

Antennas site would be the best area. I was there for a star party in November and the horizon light pollution from the various metros was only a problem if you were looking at something thru that light. 

What was more of an issue was the skyglow from solar activity. It's a lot better around 1AM.

Hovatter Road is the name of the I-10 freeway exit. 

Enjoy your trip! 

[John the Space Traveler]

The Antenna site seems to be a common suggestion for observing/camping within 30 minutes of town.  Thank you all who have made suggestions.   I have put it at the top of the list.

 

About 30 minutes of dirt road driving NE of town is a wide valley ringed with mountains that appears to block Quartzsite and other direct sources of light.  Does anybody have any experience in that area?  Here is a general map to the valley.

https://maps.app.goo...cfQdrY7gDwHC9U7

[Jon Isaacs]

The Antenna site seems to be a common suggestion for observing/camping within 30 minutes of town.  Thank you all who have made suggestions.   I have put it at the top of the list.

 

About 30 minutes of dirt road driving NE of town is a wide valley ringed with mountains that appears to block Quartzsite and other direct sources of light.  Does anybody have any experience in that area?  Here is a general map to the valley.

https://maps.app.goo...cfQdrY7gDwHC9U7

 

You are still relatively close to Quartzsite, probably less than 10 miles, and blocking the direct sources of light is not really the issue, you want to block the sky glow. This time of year, Quartzsite is a large city.  The freeway lets you get as far away as possible in a given amount of time.

 

Jon  

[John the Space Traveler]

blocking the direct sources of light is not really the issue, you want to block the sky glow. 

Respectfully, I disagree.  You can be hundreds of miles from major light sources and they still have domes that reach very high (45-60 degrees).  So being 30 minutes from Quartzite is not going to diminish its light dome as much as you might think, although I agree that both distance and blocking direct sources is a good idea whenever feasible.

 

In both Southern California and Southern Arizona you are guaranteed to have light domes almost any where you go.  There are simply too many medium and large cities dotting the desert.  Deserts are also frequently windy, so wind-born dust tends to reflect and amplify scattered light.  That's one reason we care so much about transparency.  In Death Valley you can see the domes of Los Angeles and Las Vegas even though the cities are 200 and 100 miles away respectively, and those domes reach well up into the sky.  At Observatory Campground a few hundreds yards from Palomar Observatory, you can see the domes of San Diego and Los Angeles despite the distance from those cities.  That light pollution actually hinders Palomar to a degree.

 

The only way to block a light dome is with mountains, but then you block the sky behind them as well and limit your observing area to regions somewhat near the zenith.  So if you want to look at objects stuck in the light dome (usually southern sky objects), then your only alternative is to block direct light sources and do your best with what remains.

[Americal]

John, I do know the area and you can get away from direct light by heading north on Plomosa Rd.  Don't go to far past the Bouse Fisherman intaglio or you'll pick up the lights of Bouse (cultural center that it is).  Plomosa Rd is normally in good shape, the last time I drove it was in 2019 so my info is a bit dated but it does get a fair amount of daytime traffic.  When I was there in '19 I was out for the AAMM in late March and the weather was spectacular; days in the 70's, nights to about 55 and almost no wind.  YMMV.

The place I'd shoot for 33.7825W, -1140835N is flat, off the road and blocked by some hills.  The hills will probably help with the wind if it comes up though January is usually pretty calm.

Vladimir is right, the southern deserts have in the last 10 years become a more threatening place than they used to be.  I8 and I10 have each become a filter for northbounders so the area off Plomosa Rd is probably safer than L.A. now.

Good luck and have a safe trip, I'm jealous.

 

TOM

[Jon Isaacs]

Respectfully, I disagree.  You can be hundreds of miles from major light sources and they still have domes that reach very high (45-60 degrees).  So being 30 minutes from Quartzite is not going to diminish its light dome as much as you might think, although I agree that both distance and blocking direct sources is a good idea whenever feasible.

 

In both Southern California and Southern Arizona you are guaranteed to have light domes almost any where you go.  There are simply too many medium and large cities dotting the desert.  Deserts are also frequently windy, so wind-born dust tends to reflect and amplify scattered light.  That's one reason we care so much about transparency.  In Death Valley you can see the domes of Los Angeles and Las Vegas even though the cities are 200 and 100 miles away respectively, and those domes reach well up into the sky.  At Observatory Campground a few hundreds yards from Palomar Observatory, you can see the domes of San Diego and Los Angeles despite the distance from those cities.  That light pollution actually hinders Palomar to a degree.

 

The only way to block a light dome is with mountains, but then you block the sky behind them as well and limit your observing area to regions somewhat near the zenith.  So if you want to look at objects stuck in the light dome (usually southern sky objects), then your only alternative is to block direct light sources and do your best with what remains.

 

The reason a light dome can be seen from a long distance is that the skies are otherwise very dark. The fact that a distant light dome can be seen is evidence of dark skies.

 

Blocking a light dome does not reduce its affect on the overhead sky brightness, it may help with dark adaptation.

 

Being 30 miles from Quartzsite is definitely better than being 10 miles from Quartzsite.. its not as desirable as being at the Navajo National Monument at 7300 feet but it's better than being 10 miles from Quartzsite.

 

I don't know how many Snowbirds there are in the Quartzsite area right now but it's near peak. An internet search suggests nearly a million but having driven through there,  I would think a smaller number but still very substantial number.

 

Jon

Edited by Jon Isaacs, 11 January 2024 - 02:57 AM.

[DSO Viewer AZ]

I would head to Wenden, go north on Alamo rd towards Alamo lake. Anywhere north of the mountains just north of “town” have fantastic dark skies. Plenty of safe places to set up. If your just going out for a few hours, the 86th st turn off has a nice place to set up. I went out there regularly for quite some time. Never had any issues. Alamo lake itself is quite nice as well, but sometimes the bass fishermen RVs can be bright. It’s also quite a ways from Wenden. Good for an overnight stay, if you go to camp area “D” you will not have RV lights visible. This time of year it should be pretty sparsely populated. Good luck. 

[John the Space Traveler]

John, I do know the area and you can get away from direct light by heading north on Plomosa Rd.  Don't go to far past the Bouse Fisherman intaglio or you'll pick up the lights of Bouse (cultural center that it is).  Plomosa Rd is normally in good shape, the last time I drove it was in 2019 so my info is a bit dated but it does get a fair amount of daytime traffic.  When I was there in '19 I was out for the AAMM in late March and the weather was spectacular; days in the 70's, nights to about 55 and almost no wind.  YMMV.

The place I'd shoot for 33.7825W, -1140835N is flat, off the road and blocked by some hills.  The hills will probably help with the wind if it comes up though January is usually pretty calm.

Vladimir is right, the southern deserts have in the last 10 years become a more threatening place than they used to be.  I8 and I10 have each become a filter for northbounders so the area off Plomosa Rd is probably safer than L.A. now.

Good luck and have a safe trip, I'm jealous.

 

TOM

Tom,
 

Thanks for the detailed suggestion.  I mapped it and it takes me right past one of our daytime explorations -- the Fisherman Intaglios.  The OHV traffic, while not ideal for a variety of reasons (mostly dust & privacy), at least offers the added safety of being found if we have any vehicle issues. 

I feel bad for any astronomers that come next weekend.  That's when the annual Quartzsite RV Show opens up and the area really gets flooded with lights, cars and people.

FYI:  For anybody who likes desert observing and wants dark skies and some measure of privacy, I recommend either Amboy Crater or the BLM land in the region around Trilobite Wilderness, which are in eastern CA (cool months only).  There are Clear Sky Charts for both.

Edited by John the Space Traveler, 11 January 2024 - 06:01 PM.

[SELDON]

Ok

[John the Space Traveler]

Now that my weekend out there has passed, and everybody shared their best advice, I thought I'd bookend this with a report on the trip.  Pictures follow below.

We ended up camping in the Plomosa Mountains about 5 linear miles to the northeast, and about 10 miles/25 minutes by highway and dirt road.  We had a 4WD pickup truck but didn't need to get out of 2WD.  We plan on returning to the area next time we come to shop in town for rocks and fossils, but we would encourage anybody doing the same to have a vehicle with good clearance and tires that can handle rocky dirt roads. 

If you drive slow over the bumps, your optics should do fine.  Just pad them well in your car.  If bringing a scope on a bumpy road doesn't appeal to you, the Sonoran Desert landscape makes a great foreground for wide-field imaging.

 

We partly picked the site because its BLM land, and thus we could camp for free and cook dinner and breakfast over a fire.

The temps were excellent at night (only about 45F / 7C), and the winds were pretty much non-existent except for two brief periods after midnight.  So as far as normal desert weather goes that was pretty good.  The downside is that we had variable haze and clouds all night so no observing could be done.  However, during the brief clear periods the skies were wonderfully dark and the mountains around our campsite blocked the light domes from nearby Quartzsite and other areas.  So we were happy about that.

 

Considering it was a holiday weekend and Quartzsite was swamped with visitors, in the 24 hours we were there we had only 3 ATVs pass by about 50 yards away, and only during the day.  Other than that, we had the entire desert to ourselves.

Before heading out we searched Google Earth for a good spot.  We found this cleared hilltop patch but it wasn't what we expected.

Edited by John the Space Traveler, 18 January 2024 - 07:08 PM.

[John the Space Traveler]

We thought it would be a great spot to get above ground level and set up gear.  It turned out when we got there that it had divots and rocks, and wasn't very level.  There was only one area large enough to set up a tripod, but we needed space for multiple people.  So we moved east of the site where it was flatter.

 

Here is what it looked like in profile.  Too bad.  It had such potential.  I have other landscape pics but I don't have the time to reduce the resolution to 500kb for CL.

 

Edited by John the Space Traveler, 18 January 2024 - 07:07 PM.