61 replies to this topic

[Psion]

Celestron is big, heavy and expensive, not an option for me. I can take an RST-300 mount, RASA 8" with a mono camera mounted and shoot in 10 minutes.

[Starlancer]

Maybe not an 80, but a 60-70.  Remember the light path is folded in the Seestar to have everything fit.  Something about 350-400mm, maybe a 72mm F5-6 and a 585 sensor would make a great option, it would need to offer an EQ mode as well, maybe for $1500. 

 

If they cross $2000 I think it becomes too expensive for someone that might just be interested in astronomy but never delved into the field before, even 1500 is pushing it.

[Gleason]

What a fantastic gateway drug.  The success of the S50 is largely due to the $499 price and the fact that it does what is advertised with little effort.  Such a value for what it can do at the cost of what most of us pay for a premium eyepiece.  Not just for beginners, many advanced users are pushing it to its limits and hacking into its potential.  My wonderful Astrophysics refractors are pouting in the corner office. 

 

 Celestron is on the right track with its Origin product, but it is not a spontanious purchase for those who are just getting interested in amateur astronomy.  The advanced user are already heavily invested in dedicated astrophotography scopes and mounts.  We do want a RASA 6 OTA.  

 

I would love to see a better array in the S50, perhaps a square format CMOS.  Switchable to full native EQ operation would benefit those who want the long exposure game.  

 

M42

Bortle 9 (really B11)

34 minutes

10 second subs

 

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[geoffl]

I find that the S50 has a direct competitor that is smaller; the Dwarf II. For astro work I use both, often at the same time, but for daytime use, the twin sensors in the Dwarf give it the advantage. The Dwarf, in its bag, with its tripod and spare battery, takes up about the same space and weighs as much as my cased pair of 10x50 binoculars.

 

A couple of weeks ago I took my Dwarf to a bird hide. With the Dwarf sitting on the shelf adjacent to a viewing port, I was scanning the flocks of birds with the wide-angle, and with a single touch on my tablet's screen, I had a similar view to the other birdwatchers using spotting scopes or DSLRs with long lenses. At the press of a virtual button, I could record a still photo or a video.

 

The S50 also has the daytime capability, but without the wide-angle output of the Dwarf, it is more of a challenge to select a target. However, for astronomical work, I prefer the S50.

 

On this side of the pond, the S50 and Dwarf II with accessories, both retail at just over £500. As mentioned above, its the clever software that will improve the excellent pair of competing products.

 

Geoff

[jprideaux]

I also find the Dwarf2 better for daytime nature photography.  The Dwarf2 can also focus a lot closer.  You could never get an image like the following with a SeeStar.   This was taken with my Dwarf2 with focusing about 12 feet away.  

 

To try something like this with the SeeStar, the closest I can focus is about 65 feet away and the dragon-fly would take up only a small part of the sensor and it would be necessary to digitally zoom resulting in a picture not as good.  Plus it will be harder to even find the target.  
 

So I agree that although the SeeStar is better for most astronomy targets, the Dwarf2 is better for most non-astronomy targets.  

 

 

[JAC8]

I would be happy with 60mm especially if it included a de-rotator.

A larger chip would also be welcome in a future upgrade or pro version.

Eventually, maybe an 80 or 90 but I can't see them producing such at $1000. The change from 50 to 80mm would easily quadruple the volume and weight of the scope, and as others have said you're going to start needing some additional metal in the construction. Maybe $1500? I think it would sell easily.

Needed for sure:

derotator

larger chip (larger fov)

Nice to have:

mosaic mode

easily ability to use with equatorial wedge

[Jethro7]

Hello Cners 

I would settle on a upgraded Seestar S50 with a bigger and better sensor. My experience with my Seestar S50 leads me to to the notion that I would buy into a Seestar S80 if one were to be offered.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

[Stuart Bruff]

I’ve been impressed with the majority of Seestar S50 reviews and am sorely tempted to buy one. The one thing that makes me hold off is the time it’s been on the market and the number of potential enhancements that others have made over its lifetime.  This topic caught my eye because, based on such considerations, I have been wondering if ZWO are thinking of releasing a “pro”/“plus” model in the near future.  As other manufacturers get into the niche, I think ZWO will have to offer something new and better than the base-level S50 … I don’t know when, though.

 

Whilst an S80 would certainly be of interest, I suspect the price would edge over the £2000/$2000 mark for electromechanical robustness & reliability reasons. An S60, or possibly S70, might be more likely to fit in the middle price range and still offer a useful increase in light gathering.

 

As for my (light)bucket list:

 

• Equatorial mode.
• Improved sensor (eg, greater pixel count)
• Square image
• Optical Zoom, ideally variable, but stepped if easier and more robust. Both better planetary and wider deep-sky views would be nice.

As I’m pushing three-score and ten, I don’t drag out the telescope that often and have even stooped so low as to buy a couple of 6.5x and 7x binoculars to complement my 15x70s. I’ve even put on a fleece when the temperature dropped below zero Celsius. So, the prospect of sitting inside with my mug of cocoa whilst deep-skying has a certain attraction for which I’d be willing to shell out a not-too-expensive-shrubbery’s worth of shekels.

[chrisecurtis]

The simplest thing would be to use a slightly bigger, square sensor with the same optics and mount. Not much R & D or manufacturing re-gearing needed. Deliver it with software to shoot mosaics and you are in direct competition with the Vaonis Vesperas, at less than half the price. 

 

I suspect a lot of the design choices are linked - any change to optics or mount means a complete redesign.

[Morden]

Hello all, I have always been a fan of what we can see in the night sky. I am not an avid or hobby astronomer by no means, I do not have own a telescope but have always been planning on purchasing one. My job keeps me from observing the night sky through a telescope because I work night shifts. So I would like to classify myself to be a casual observer, having classified myself as one means I just want to be able to see lots of different stuff such as the moon up close, nebulas, comets, planets such as mars, saturn, and jupiter, etc all within a few hours of live-viewing.

 

I am glad that the past several years we are starting to have the new type of all-in-one telescopes that we now call smart telescopes because I myself prefer to view all those on an app with my iPad, cellphone, even streamed to a big screen TV. I also am glad that these smart telescopes are giving us the ability to share our live-viewing to our friends and family at the same time through the app on their devices or the TV.

 

Since I am a casual user, I have seriously considered buying the Seestar S50 for its overall package such as it's very portable, easy to set up, really good price point, etc amongst the pros of it. The biggest cons that I have read about it from what I gather is that it could use better resolution, wider deep sky and better planetary viewing, etc.

 

I’ve been impressed with the majority of Seestar S50 reviews and am sorely tempted to buy one. The one thing that makes me hold off is the time it’s been on the market and the number of potential enhancements that others have made over its lifetime.  This topic caught my eye because, based on such considerations, I have been wondering if ZWO are thinking of releasing a “pro”/“plus” model in the near future.  As other manufacturers get into the niche, I think ZWO will have to offer something new and better than the base-level S50 … I don’t know when, though.

 

Whilst an S80 would certainly be of interest, I suspect the price would edge over the £2000/$2000 mark for electromechanical robustness & reliability reasons. An S60, or possibly S70, might be more likely to fit in the middle price range and still offer a useful increase in light gathering.

 

As for my (light)bucket list:

 

• Equatorial mode.
• Improved sensor (eg, greater pixel count)
• Square image
• Optical Zoom, ideally variable, but stepped if easier and more robust. Both better planetary and wider deep-sky views would be nice.

 

I agree with Stuart in his posting of some improvements that would be nice to see in a newer Seestar model.

 

Currently I have only really seen 2 groups of pricing for some of the more popular (and highly recommended) scopes. They are either budget priced (Dwarf and Seestar) or quite pricey (Celestron, Unistellar and Vaonis) with really nothing priced to fit in between. So for now, I am holding out on buying the S50 with hopes that ZWO brings out an improved and better version of the S50 that can allow us to enjoy better planetary and wider deep sky views that could fit nicely into that price range segment.

Edited by Morden, 15 May 2024 - 06:55 PM.

[jprideaux]

Hello all, I have always been a fan of what we can see in the night sky. I am not an avid or hobby astronomer by no means, I do not have own a telescope but have always been planning on purchasing one. My job keeps me from observing the night sky through a telescope because I work night shifts. So I would like to classify myself to be a casual observer, having classified myself as one means I just want to be able to see lots of different stuff such as the moon up close, nebulas, comets, planets such as mars, saturn, and jupiter, etc all within a few hours of live-viewing.

I am glad that the past several years we are starting to have the new type of all-in-one telescopes that we now call smart telescopes because I myself prefer to view all those on an app with my iPad, cellphone, even streamed to a big screen TV. I also am glad that these smart telescopes are giving us the ability to share our live-viewing to our friends and family at the same time through the app on their devices or the TV.

Since I am a casual user, I have seriously considered buying the Seestar S50 for its overall package such as it's very portable, easy to set up, really good price point, etc amongst the pros of it. The biggest cons that I have read about it from what I gather is that it could use better resolution, wider deep sky and better planetary viewing, etc.


I agree with Stuart in his posting of some improvements that would be nice to see in a newer Seestar model.

Currently I have only really seen 2 groups of pricing for some of the more popular (and highly recommended) scopes. They are either budget priced (Dwarf and Seestar) or quite pricey (Celestron, Unistellar and Vaonis) with really nothing priced to fit in between. So for now, I am holding out on buying the S50 with hopes that ZWO brings out an improved and better version of the S50 that can allow us to enjoy better planetary and wider deep sky views that could fit nicely into that price range segment.

It is hard for a single telescope to excel at wide-field and planetary. The only exception might be a C8 with both hyper star and 2x Barlow. Then you can go from F2 up to F20 with the 200 mm aperture. It is even harder for a smart telescope to excel at both wide-field and planetary since it is hard to automate swapping out reducers and barlows. Most amateurs just get 2 or more scopes. It will be interesting to see if any smart-scope company actually tries to make a scope thst excels at both. Most so far just excel for DSO and just barely do planetary.

Edited by jprideaux, 15 May 2024 - 07:25 PM.

[Joshua Roth]

Never having yet used, watched, or even laid eyes on one, I personally would imagine to like the S50 to rotate the field so full frame images could fully overlap for stacking. (Like Keck!)

 

But when I step back and wear my 1985 (bought my first telescope) hat, I am simply floored at the range of things on the marketplace.

 

Which makes me wonder ... who owns all these scopes? Are they used in the privacy of the owners' backyards? Are many given as gifts and imprisoned in closets? I know it's a big world, with US population a third of a billion souls ... but I I almost never see telescopes in visible public use in New England except during a special, well publicized event. And so often I ask people like science teachers if they own a scope, and no, they don't (until I give them one

 

This isn't a rant or complaint but a naive (?) query. I am very glad the hobby keeps such a diversity of vendors and products in business, and somewhat awestruck that it does.

 

Meanwhile, I am very excited about the potential for scopes like the S50 to include people with limited mobility in the act of real-time observing.

 

Clear skies - JR

Edited by Joshua Roth, 28 May 2024 - 02:35 PM.

[RedLionNJ]

It is hard for a single telescope to excel at wide-field and planetary. The only exception might be a C8 with both hyper star and 2x Barlow. Then you can go from F2 up to F20 with the 200 mm aperture. It is even harder for a smart telescope to excel at both wide-field and planetary since it is hard to automate swapping out reducers and barlows. Most amateurs just get 2 or more scopes. It will be interesting to see if any smart-scope company actually tries to make a scope thst excels at both. Most so far just excel for DSO and just barely do planetary.

There's no need to go to f/20 on a SCT to get optimal sampling for planetary imaging. The imx678 and imx676 sensors both have 2-micron pixels, making somewhere in the f/10 focal range just about perfect. No barlow required.

[duck2k]

ZWO does not need a line of smart scopes.  They have hit a home run with the best bang for the buck setup in the Seestar 50.  Price seems the only bottom line for many folks buying these scopes, and I doubt anyone could make anything as cheap as ZWO's offering. 

Bingo!

[GSBass]

I’m getting kinda excited by the d3, looking like the ultimate widefield, polar mode ,60 sec subs and 30sec subs on the finder cam for Milky Way shots… regardless of what other robot you have it looks like a nice addition… pricing and order info coming on Thursday 

[Urknall]

ZWO is definetely thinking about new products in the Seestar line

See 6:50 in this video:

https://www.youtube....h?v=g_00i3ECqDk

[GSBass]

I still believe the answer to robotic planetary in these smart scopes is a dual optical tube design, the only extra hardware required is the mak ota and sensor which are dirt cheap and high quality, this would keep overall cost down, the user would simply select which ota to use once on target, I made a mock up of what a vespera would look like in this configuration but it’s not hard to imagine what a seestar would look like with same specs

There's no need to go to f/20 on a SCT to get optimal sampling for planetary imaging. The imx678 and imx676 sensors both have 2-micron pixels, making somewhere in the f/10 focal range just about perfect. No barlow required.

 

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[Recorte]

Maybe not an 80, but a 60-70.  Remember the light path is folded in the Seestar to have everything fit.  Something about 350-400mm, maybe a 72mm F5-6 and a 585 sensor would make a great option, it would need to offer an EQ mode as well, maybe for $1500. 

 

If they cross $2000 I think it becomes too expensive for someone that might just be interested in astronomy but never delved into the field before, even 1500 is pushing it.

Yes,  60-70 would be more logical for the two reasons that have made S50 a huge success: portability and price.

[rgrokett]

Has anyone tried taking two or more S50's and imaged the same object, stacking all the lights with another software package (like Siril)?  

 

I was wondering if dual S50's would give enough boost in exposure time to make it worthwhile? 

 

(...or maybe have a "Seestar Party" and stack 'em all!) 

 

Russ

[GSBass]

It’s certainly possible, we have a some people in the vespera group that collaborate and stack many shots, and they have create huge scale mosaics that are breathtaking

Has anyone tried taking two or more S50's and imaged the same object, stacking all the lights with another software package (like Siril)?  

 

I was wondering if dual S50's would give enough boost in exposure time to make it worthwhile? 

 

(...or maybe have a "Seestar Party" and stack 'em all!) 

 

Russ

[GSBass]

Also sometime last year Vaonis sanctioned an event where everyone took there shot of different areas of markarian chain and sent the tiffs to the company, they stacked them all and shared the result… it was pretty neat

Has anyone tried taking two or more S50's and imaged the same object, stacking all the lights with another software package (like Siril)?  

 

I was wondering if dual S50's would give enough boost in exposure time to make it worthwhile? 

 

(...or maybe have a "Seestar Party" and stack 'em all!) 

 

Russ

[jprideaux]

All it takes is for someone to start a thread here, suggest a target and ask people to image it and then add a comment with a link to their own file-storage system so others can download their raw (lossless) file. For example, if 10 people shared their ending combined FIT file, everybody in the group could go download those other 9 files and then have 10 FIT files to stack. There are a number of places to store files and make them publicly available for people who have the link. google Drive, iCloud, and a few others as well.

[Recorte]

Has anyone tried taking two or more S50's and imaged the same object, stacking all the lights with another software package (like Siril)?  

 

I was wondering if dual S50's would give enough boost in exposure time to make it worthwhile? 

 

(...or maybe have a "Seestar Party" and stack 'em all!) 

 

Russ

Excelent idea.

 

I'll try that.  But there's more. If that works, we could coordinate on the internet to synchronize imaging with the S50, tens, hundreds, thousands of them. That would be the  Large Array S50. One of two: either ridiculous or a breakthrough haha

Edited by Recorte, 18 June 2024 - 01:30 AM.

[Pinballwiz]

I picked up one of these and use the bubble level on it before attaching the Seestar.   Every time I am dead nuts - or very, very close.   From there the knobs make dialing it in a breeze.

 

https://www.bhphotov...bble_level.html

Thanks for the tip! I just picked this up for my S50, as it is annoying to try to find the sweet spot when I just want to quickly set it up so I can go back inside and operate from my couch. lol. 

[Joshua Roth]

Hello CN! I am a low-tech visual observer considering a small all-in-one imaging scope for outreach and education work. I am just curious, if anyone happens to know, why leveling the S50 so precisely is so critical. I would have thought it straightforward to create a coordinate transformation regardless. I think they ran an article about that in S&T ages ago, in the context of Dobsonian mounts with encoders. Any insights would be welcome. NOT mission-critical, just curious! Clear skies to all - JR