4145 replies to this topic

[Nerd1]

With that kind of speed, you could hit the same target at the same time for 15 minutes every night, and completely avoid rotation problems. 

[alan.dang]

https://www.cloudyni...erture-f-ratio/

Remember that f-ratio and aperture matter for nebulosity. So the 6” f2 means that it collects 46X as much light.

[photon08]

Earlier in the thread, somebody mentioned casting on the TV as a potentially novel feature of Celestron origin, but other smart telescopes (perhaps the wifi station mode support would make it simpler) can do that, too if what Celestron origin does is just screen mirroring as opposed to built-in Chromecast or airplay.

Edited by photon08, 08 January 2024 - 05:13 PM.

[WillR]

Looks cool, but that's a lot of money. How about coming out with something budget friendly to compete with the Seestar? A 4" or 5"?

[jprideaux]

Do you think the Celestron Origin would pair better with white or red-wine?

 

Celestron seems to think white wine from their marketing material...

 

(and this shows what a mirroring might look like on a larger screen).

(and, yes, mirroring is really a function of the mobile device, not the app).  I can do mirroring with ALL my other smart-scopes).

 

Edited by jprideaux, 08 January 2024 - 05:28 PM.

[Bob W4]

Do you think the Celestron Origin would pair better with white or red-wine?

 

Celestron seems to think white wine from their marketing material...

 

(and this shows what a mirroring might look like on a larger screen).

(and, yes, mirroring is really a function of the mobile device, not the app).  I can do mirroring with ALL my other smart-scopes).

 

 

My first thought was an ice cold beer (or 2) with a few beefsticks while watching the image progress on the TV.  The wine and cheese thingy is definitely not my idea of a good time.

[charles.tremblay.darveau]

Do you think the Celestron Origin would pair better with white or red-wine?

 

Celestron seems to think white wine from their marketing material...

 

(and this shows what a mirroring might look like on a larger screen).

(and, yes, mirroring is really a function of the mobile device, not the app).  I can do mirroring with ALL my other smart-scopes).

 

origin.jpg

 

Well red or white wine seems to be an improvement. If I had to fix tilt on a Rasa, whisky would be my go-to...

[Psion]

https://www.cloudyni...erture-f-ratio/

Remember that f-ratio and aperture matter for nebulosity. So the 6” f2 means that it collects 46X as much light.

The question is what you're comparing it to. If we compare Vespera with a 2.9 um pixel and Celestron with a 2.4 um pixel, then 5.5 times more photons hit the pixel of the Celestron camera than the pixel of the Vespera camera. But the important thing is image processing, where poor processing can erase this difference.

Edited by Psion, 08 January 2024 - 06:35 PM.

[OneSky]

With Celestron now entering the smart telescope "arena," it's interesting to wonder if, say in the next few years, they or some other manufacturer will be able to establish a widely-regarded "best" platform for smart telescopes. In 2007, Apple (Steve Jobs) invented the smartphone, and that was truly a game-changer. Of course, not everyone "needs" a smart telescope; they're not destined to become another indispensable tech device. But just as with the iPhone, aren't there likely to be some features that will distinguish one smart scope from another? For example, in terms of capabilities, there's now both Celestron's SCT-based smart telescope vs ZWO's triplet APO Seestar. I wonder if someone will introduce an EQ-based smartscope to get beyond the limitations of alt-az mounts. But overall, In Apple's case, it arguably was the combination of something being powerful and functional, yet also extremely easy to use.

 

In this regard, it seems like ZWO is trying to follow Apple's lead, and the Seestar's all-in-one design does seem to have, in a sense, created a sizeable market. Celestron took notice. But they appear to be aiming for a different demographic. At $4000, they know they're going to sell less than a scope priced at $500. As WillR said, it does seem a little odd that it's so much more expensive than the Seestar. But the market will have the final say.

 

In any case, due to the convergence of many factors, such as what seems like a growing interest in the cosmos, as well as advances in tech, we're at the beginning of a rapid increase in the innovation of smart telescopes.

 

By the way, that Celestron image that jprideaux posted reflects that I also regularly mirror what my ASIAir Plus is imaging to my flatscreen. I often find it more satisfying--even without wine--than what's typically being broadcast.

[Dwight J]

At $5400 Cdn I highly doubt that this will put much if any of a dent in Seestar sales.  The fiddle free Seestar offers more ease of use compared to the Celestron offering.  No need to collimate is a biggie and small form factor (and weight) made it for me.  This device is not the same in concept as the Seestar.  At this price point I can think of many things I would rather have while the Seestar is the price of a premium eyepiece.

[roelb]

Hope the SSAG will do a better job: https://www.cloudyni...uider-troubles/

[GSBass]

If I were to talk myself in to Origin, I ponder if I invested in this 3lb tripod, then I am looking at 30lbs total,  It seems like that may feel pretty portable to trek from the bedroom to the driveway nightly…. I think I need to put together 30lbs for a test run  https://vaonis.com/p...ic-short-tripod

 

——

actually after finally looking up the rasa 8 and reading a few threads…. This scope may be way to temperamental for my patience level…. One of those deals where it’s wonderful til it’s not…. And then it’s very unwonderful

My guess is any Vaonis announcement would be a tracking mount for the Hestia.

 

I think for something like the Stellina-2 they would make a much bigger deal with a teaser for a teaser...   

 

I think right now it is all they can do to get the Hestia out the door, get the Vespera-Passenger updates done, and get the Vespera-pro finished up.

Edited by GSBass, 08 January 2024 - 08:03 PM.

[alan.dang]

The question is what you're comparing it to. If we compare Vespera with a 2.9 um pixel and Celestron with a 2.4 um pixel, then 5.5 times more photons hit the pixel of the Celestron camera than the pixel of the Vespera camera. But the important thing is image processing, where poor processing can erase this difference.

You need to use the Etendue calculator since the aperture is also different.  That is, if you go with focal length, a 200/4 has 1/2 the light collection of a 200/2.8 which is 1/4 of the light collection of a f2.

 

but if you imagine a 400/4 and 200/4 , the per pixel sensitivity is similar but nebulosity is split over 4 pixels which collects more light.

 

This is why the Rasa and Takahashi Epsilon generate amazing photos in less time.

((F2÷F1)^2)×((F3÷F4)^2)×F6

 

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[Bill Jensen]

Do you think the Celestron Origin would pair better with white or red-wine?

 

Celestron seems to think white wine from their marketing material...

 

(and this shows what a mirroring might look like on a larger screen).

(and, yes, mirroring is really a function of the mobile device, not the app).  I can do mirroring with ALL my other smart-scopes).

 

origin.jpg

My first thought was that I would never put a scope near a pool, especially if I was drinking wine!  

[John Verderame]

All I have to say about it is, if this is "Origin," I suppose "Destiny" will be a scope that looks out the window to see if the sky is clear, then takes itself outside and does everything while you're sleeping and not even aware it's outside doing its thing.

[erff88]

for the amount of money, it just seems like a small aperture and small sensor, and lack of field de rotator 

[ABQJeff]

I am very excited by this and all smart scopes. Keep ‘em coming I say!! (‘em being new and better smart scopes). And in 10 years as my eyes go and desire to spend hours in the cold wanes, the options for smart scopes should be amazing!!

In the meantime I continue to ‘Herschel’ it (meaning strictly visual).

[Digital Don]

Take my money now? Just got the email this thing looks really nice.

I don't know. 

 

I looked at the picture of M 81 you posted taken with the Seestar and compared it to the same object in Celestron's ad for the Origin.  Yes, the Origin picture has higher resolution so I guess you could call it 'better'.  But it certainly wasn't eight times better. 

 

The Origin is however, eight times as expensive.

 

Don

[Psion]

You need to use the Etendue calculator since the aperture is also different.  That is, if you go with focal length, a 200/4 has 1/2 the light collection of a 200/2.8 which is 1/4 of the light collection of a f2.

 

but if you imagine a 400/4 and 200/4 , the per pixel sensitivity is similar but nebulosity is split over 4 pixels which collects more light.

 

This is why the Rasa and Takahashi Epsilon generate amazing photos in less time.

((F2÷F1)^2)×((F3÷F4)^2)×F6

 

In the table you have F4.5 instead of F4. The 150mm has 9 times more light than the 50mm, but the Vespera has a resolution of 2.99"/pixel and the Celestron has 1.49"/pixel. You must not forget about the central obstruction, which in Celestron is 41%, and therefore, the effective diameter of RASA 6" is 139 mm.

 

I have Tak 130ED and Rasa 8", they're great telescopes.

[Psion]

If we take into consideration all the parameters of both devices(Vespera and Celestron), then we find out the whole truth, i.e. that the difference is not that big.

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[rrpallechio]

With Celestron now entering the smart telescope "arena," it's interesting to wonder if, say in the next few years, they or some other manufacturer will be able to establish a widely-regarded "best" platform for smart telescopes. In 2007, Apple (Steve Jobs) invented the smartphone, and that was truly a game-changer. Of course, not everyone "needs" a smart telescope; they're not destined to become another indispensable tech device. But just as with the iPhone, aren't there likely to be some features that will distinguish one smart scope from another? For example, in terms of capabilities, there's now both Celestron's SCT-based smart telescope vs ZWO's triplet APO Seestar. I wonder if someone will introduce an EQ-based smartscope to get beyond the limitations of alt-az mounts. But overall, In Apple's case, it arguably was the combination of something being powerful and functional, yet also extremely easy to use.

 

In this regard, it seems like ZWO is trying to follow Apple's lead, and the Seestar's all-in-one design does seem to have, in a sense, created a sizeable market. Celestron took notice. But they appear to be aiming for a different demographic. At $4000, they know they're going to sell less than a scope priced at $500. As WillR said, it does seem a little odd that it's so much more expensive than the Seestar. But the market will have the final say.

 

In any case, due to the convergence of many factors, such as what seems like a growing interest in the cosmos, as well as advances in tech, we're at the beginning of a rapid increase in the innovation of smart telescopes.

 

By the way, that Celestron image that jprideaux posted reflects that I also regularly mirror what my ASIAir Plus is imaging to my flatscreen. I often find it more satisfying--even without wine--than what's typically being broadcast.

Interesting question. Currently, about 71% of phones worldwide are Android and about 29% are IOS. So if ZWO follows Apple's lead, which I think is a good way to look at it, considering their stuff works mostly with their stuff, and Celestron follows the Android path and builds telescopes that can work with hardware outside their ecosystem, you could have some very interesting marketing and innovation going on.

[jprideaux]

A few notes. Although you CAN use any filters in the filter drawer, you should only use filters designed for that fast focal-ratio so you may end-up ONLY using the one they offer anyway.

The RASA has a large central obstruction and every mm there counts so you won’t be wanting a sensor there any larger than the mounting obstruction that the sensor screws into. That is why they probably went with the older and smaller IMX178. The whole sensor (including the container embedding the sensor) did not cause any extra obstruction. If you just took a different sensor in which the whole body of the circular case caused a larger obstruction, the quality of the RASA may go down. So a replacement sensor giving a wider FOV would need to be enclosed in a case that has a relatively small diameter. Unfortunately, most of the larger sensors have the cases too big for best use in a RASA6. Celestron probably realized this and went for that older Imx178. Hopefully Celestron will work with a sensor manufacturer to produce a larger sensor in a small circular case appropriate for a RASA-6. It would also need the exact same back-focus, etc.

The Origin is 8x the cost of the SeeStar. As things go with astronomy, you should not think of it as being 8x as good. You pay more for smaller improvements. For some the SeeStar may be 8x as convenient due to its small size and weight. The Origin may end up being only “twice as good” and that will be subjective to what the user wants. The Origin will be roughly twice the cost of the Vespera-pro but it probably won’t be twice as good. Again, you pay more for smaller gains.

IMO, the single attractive feature of a RASA-based scope is in how fast you can collect the image. In regular AP, it is common practice to collect data with small refractors from multiple nights and add them together. The RASAs are designed for speed and appeal more for people that like to do things fast. Either a better EAA experience (observing multiple targets in a night) or just getting your data faster for AP. Also you can’t use a filter wheel on a RASA. Just a filter-drawer. A filter-wheel will block too much light.

So who is the origin for? Someone who would appreciate the speed and who is willing to pay the extra money for the particular advantages that the Origin offers but with the understanding that it will not be “8 times as good” as a SeeStar or “twice as good” as a Vespera-pro. It is not a scope for people mainly worried about money and how good of a deal you are getting.

[Mbenj2405]

With all the issues with Celestron RASA users having to fiddle with tilt issues, I'll be waiting a good while before I plonk down $4000 for this.

[Psion]

The calculation shows that Celestron Origin collects only 1.67 times more photons per pixel than Vespera Passengers at the same time, so it's not a big difference.

[erff88]

and then is Celestron expecting folks to buy separately the $800 StarSense AutoGuider in order to unlock plate solviing and tracking?