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Intes 12" M1212 Deluxe experiences?

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#76 luxo II

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Posted 09 February 2024 - 08:46 PM

Haven’t noticed any issue with a cooled camera on mine…
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#77 StefanBemmerl

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Posted 10 February 2024 - 02:44 AM

Yes, there is a fan at the back and ventilation holes at the front. I will now insulate the tube with 2 layers and hope it will clear this evening so I can test it again. I will also do another star test 

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#78 StefanBemmerl

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Posted 10 February 2024 - 02:45 AM

There is even a hand-sketched construction plan...

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#79 StefanBemmerl

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Posted 10 February 2024 - 11:43 AM

The MC is double insulated. Unfortunately it doesn't look like it will be clear today :-(

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#80 Terra Nova

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Posted 10 February 2024 - 01:06 PM

Hopefully the insulation will help. If not, I guess the best solution is to just keep your Newtonian and get a better ladder.


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#81 rolo

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Posted 10 February 2024 - 05:11 PM

Yes, there is a fan at the back and ventilation holes at the front. I will now insulate the tube with 2 layers and hope it will clear this evening so I can test it again. I will also do another star test 

Your tube has the improved baffles that permit warm air rising to go underneath the baffles thanks to the wrinkled base. My Intes model had the baffles flush with the tube which trapped the heat behind the baffles on the upper side. I hope the insulation helps.



#82 Kitfox

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Posted 10 February 2024 - 10:09 PM

The Intes and STF Maks really hold collimation well in situ, but when shipped, who knows.  Is anything strange, beyond softness, going on off axis?


Edited by Kitfox, 10 February 2024 - 10:10 PM.


#83 StefanBemmerl

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Posted 11 February 2024 - 04:17 AM

Hello, there is something new to report!

The weather forecast yesterday could be bent, it was totally cloudy, but then I saw that Jupiter was shining through slightly so I went out anyway because the next few days are only forecast to rain.

It stayed that way, it was hazy but every now and then a few stars flashed through, Jupiter was almost clear for a short time.

But the haze was actually really good planetary weather, the seeing was almost eliminated and you had a still image.

So:

The insulation definitely made a difference. The image was calm and you could focus.

It's actually unbelievable that you have to wrap cheap insulation around the outside of such an expensive device to make it work...

The star test: Unfortunately, as I said, it was quite hazy. That's why I couldn't do the star test properly, so I have to wait for a good, clear night again.
Every now and then you could at least test something on a bright star, even if unfortunately it always shimmered through the clouds.
Intrafocal and extrafocal look pretty much the same. The obstruction is visible in the middle and it is definitely nice and even on the outside. As I said, I'm not a professional here, but I can't see anything that doesn't look good. This has to be done again in good weather.
Here I tested with a 10mm eyepiece.


Jupiter:

Now it was back to my reference. This time I was able to see Jupiter easily with the 26mm.
What immediately struck me as positive was that you could immediately see that Ganymede is larger than IO.

Jupiter itself didn't look like a disk but more like a sphere, no color fringes but really clean, that was also very impressive and somehow even looked a little better than in my Newton.

BUT: The details on Jupiter again left something to be desired. You could see the two cloud bands in focus,
These are a really intense brown tone and you can still see a line at the top, but nothing more.

Every now and then the 15mm also worked with a steady image without wobbling. But here too everything is just bigger without any further details.

What I noticed, however, was that Jupiter always made a slight double image on one side (only on one!), like a slight shadow, as if the image wasn't completely focused. I wasn't able to get rid of it.

​I thought to myself that maybe it wasn't perfectly aligned, but when I blurred everything looked centered. I wouldn't know which screw to turn, it actually looks perfectly adjusted.

And now comes the kicker - I've never seen anything like this in any device:

There was a blurry gap in one of the two cloud bands, as if someone had erased a piece with an eraser.

Later I looked in Stellarium - it was the Great Red Spot!

I always see it perfectly in the Newton with a beautiful red color, but here I didn't see it at all, as if it just wasn't there??

The main mirror itself (sital) also shimmers a little pink when you shine the lamp on it. Is this normal or could it be that the coating is coming off?

So much for last night.

​Best regards, Steve


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#84 StefanBemmerl

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Posted 11 February 2024 - 07:30 AM

I thought hard again, Jupiter's two cloud bands definitely look much browner than in my Newton. A really strong dark brown. What I just don't understand is that you couldn't see the big red spot, definitely colorless and unrecognizable... I hope to be able to test the MC again on a good, clear night and compare it with my Newton.

#85 CHASLX200

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Posted 11 February 2024 - 08:03 AM

I thought hard again, Jupiter's two cloud bands definitely look much browner than in my Newton. A really strong dark brown. What I just don't understand is that you couldn't see the big red spot, definitely colorless and unrecognizable... I hope to be able to test the MC again on a good, clear night and compare it with my Newton.

Could have been out of view when you looked, It is a easy pink in my small scopes.



#86 tturtle

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Posted 11 February 2024 - 08:39 AM

It sounds like you are pushing the magnification past the point of what your seeing will allow which would not be surprising with a scope of such long focal length. I presume your Newtonian has a much shorter focal length so comparisons between the two may not be easy. Reading through all the back and forth in this thread I just don’t see that you are getting the jaw dropping views that justify such an expensive and complex scope.  If it were me I would return this scope and buy a larger Edge SCT. I know you had an 11 before but maybe that scope just wasn’t good. An Edge SCT perfectly fits your ergonomic needs, is much more affordable, and if you buy it new you are pretty much guaranteed optical quality right out of the box. 

Hello, there is something new to report!

The weather forecast yesterday could be bent, it was totally cloudy, but then I saw that Jupiter was shining through slightly so I went out anyway because the next few days are only forecast to rain.

It stayed that way, it was hazy but every now and then a few stars flashed through, Jupiter was almost clear for a short time.

But the haze was actually really good planetary weather, the seeing was almost eliminated and you had a still image.

So:

The insulation definitely made a difference. The image was calm and you could focus.

It's actually unbelievable that you have to wrap cheap insulation around the outside of such an expensive device to make it work...

The star test: Unfortunately, as I said, it was quite hazy. That's why I couldn't do the star test properly, so I have to wait for a good, clear night again.
Every now and then you could at least test something on a bright star, even if unfortunately it always shimmered through the clouds.
Intrafocal and extrafocal look pretty much the same. The obstruction is visible in the middle and it is definitely nice and even on the outside. As I said, I'm not a professional here, but I can't see anything that doesn't look good. This has to be done again in good weather.
Here I tested with a 10mm eyepiece.


Jupiter:

Now it was back to my reference. This time I was able to see Jupiter easily with the 26mm.
What immediately struck me as positive was that you could immediately see that Ganymede is larger than IO.

Jupiter itself didn't look like a disk but more like a sphere, no color fringes but really clean, that was also very impressive and somehow even looked a little better than in my Newton.

BUT: The details on Jupiter again left something to be desired. You could see the two cloud bands in focus,
These are a really intense brown tone and you can still see a line at the top, but nothing more.

Every now and then the 15mm also worked with a steady image without wobbling. But here too everything is just bigger without any further details.

What I noticed, however, was that Jupiter always made a slight double image on one side (only on one!), like a slight shadow, as if the image wasn't completely focused. I wasn't able to get rid of it.

​I thought to myself that maybe it wasn't perfectly aligned, but when I blurred everything looked centered. I wouldn't know which screw to turn, it actually looks perfectly adjusted.

And now comes the kicker - I've never seen anything like this in any device:

There was a blurry gap in one of the two cloud bands, as if someone had erased a piece with an eraser.

Later I looked in Stellarium - it was the Great Red Spot!

I always see it perfectly in the Newton with a beautiful red color, but here I didn't see it at all, as if it just wasn't there??

The main mirror itself (sital) also shimmers a little pink when you shine the lamp on it. Is this normal or could it be that the coating is coming off?

So much for last night.

​Best regards, Steve



#87 CHASLX200

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Posted 11 February 2024 - 08:52 AM

It sounds like you are pushing the magnification past the point of what your seeing will allow which would not be surprising with a scope of such long focal length. I presume your Newtonian has a much shorter focal length so comparisons between the two may not be easy. Reading through all the back and forth in this thread I just don’t see that you are getting the jaw dropping views that justify such an expensive and complex scope.  If it were me I would return this scope and buy a larger Edge SCT. I know you had an 11 before but maybe that scope just wasn’t good. An Edge SCT perfectly fits your ergonomic needs, is much more affordable, and if you buy it new you are pretty much guaranteed optical quality right out of the box. 

Love to give it a shot on my dead still nites. Not anything i would want to use in the winter unless it is super warm.  Maybe when i am rich i can try one out. Last nite was the best nite i had in months and using 400x to 600 was easy.



#88 StefanBemmerl

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Posted 11 February 2024 - 09:05 AM

No. With the 26mm I'm only at 146x and of course I tried different focal lengths. Here I am at the same magnification as with my Newton.

#89 deSitter

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Posted 11 February 2024 - 12:19 PM

It sounds like you are pushing the magnification past the point of what your seeing will allow which would not be surprising with a scope of such long focal length. I presume your Newtonian has a much shorter focal length so comparisons between the two may not be easy. Reading through all the back and forth in this thread I just don’t see that you are getting the jaw dropping views that justify such an expensive and complex scope.  If it were me I would return this scope and buy a larger Edge SCT. I know you had an 11 before but maybe that scope just wasn’t good. An Edge SCT perfectly fits your ergonomic needs, is much more affordable, and if you buy it new you are pretty much guaranteed optical quality right out of the box. 

Seoonded - fighting thermals is a thankless task.

 

-drl



#90 Kitfox

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Posted 11 February 2024 - 03:56 PM

Steve, are you able to use the Newtonian and the Mak at the same time?  I’m not clear on that yet…that will be the test…



#91 StefanBemmerl

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Posted 11 February 2024 - 04:23 PM

Hey yes i can use them at the same time
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#92 thebonz

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 01:41 AM

I have resolved my cooling issues with a simple solution. Having an observatory makes this possible. I simply changed my observing habits and get up early and do some observing in the early morning up to 3 hours before the beginning of twilight. This works with minimal to zero cooling issues and very good seeing. Discoloration on the primary raises a few alarm bells for me. I have 3 intes maks ranging from 6 to 8 inches and none of them show any discoloration. At one time I had an edge 14 and it was simply awesome. It took magnification well with detailed planetary detail. Getting on a bit I sold it due to weight issues

Cheers John



#93 StefanBemmerl

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 05:58 AM

I looked again underground today and am attaching the pictures. I think I was wrong and only the purple color of the meniscus lens is reflected in the unclean areas on the main mirror. But assuming the telescope was from the 90s, how long will the Sital mirror last? I also tested on a distant street sign (unfortunately I only held the picture up to the eyepiece with my cell phone) - no color fringe or color cast, everything was razor sharp, I actually can't see any errors and can't explain the disappointing Jupiter observations. I hope I can test it again on a good clear night.

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#94 NevelP

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 06:33 AM

I know it’s difficult, but can you make a better picture of the mirror? It looks really dirty/foggy in your picture, but perhaps it’s not as bad as it seems.

As for how long sitall lasts, the mirror will last, the coating may have degradation over time, but I’ve had no issues whatsoever with the five scopes with Intes optics I had. That includes several made of sitall. Your Intes Micro is newer than at least two scopes that I have from Intes and both still look almost new.

#95 NevelP

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 06:36 AM

The previous owner kept your Intes Micro in a shed outside, on a permanent mount. That can have a negative effect (moisture), but I would think Markus/APM would have seen this if there had been issues.

At this point we need more observational info.

#96 StefanBemmerl

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 06:44 AM

Do you know the previous owner or where it was previously used? Unfortunately, I don't have any information about the age of the telescope or why the previous owner parted with it.

#97 R Botero

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 08:04 AM

I looked again underground today and am attaching the pictures. I think I was wrong and only the purple color of the meniscus lens is reflected in the unclean areas on the main mirror. But assuming the telescope was from the 90s, how long will the Sital mirror last? I also tested on a distant street sign (unfortunately I only held the picture up to the eyepiece with my cell phone) - no color fringe or color cast, everything was razor sharp, I actually can't see any errors and can't explain the disappointing Jupiter observations. I hope I can test it again on a good clear night.

Stefan

 

Hopefully not but that looks like condensation on the primary.   Condensation on the meniscus - which is typical for Maks - will degrade your views non-uniformly masking as poor seeing.

 

If you have the Newtonian at hand, why not point both to a bright star (Capella in Auriga, Aldebaran in Taurus or Pollux or Castor in Gemini) and test at same time?  That will tell you if the seeing supports the larger magnifications of the Mak given your familiarity with the Newtonian.

 

I have a 10" f/20 TEC Mak.  Not as big as yours but also a big beast.  It was made in the early 2000s and the mirror is intact.  It has some dirt but does not need re-coating.  The meniscus has been removed for cleaning several times; inside and out.   I keep my scope in an unheated RoR covered in two layers of insulation (radiator) material.  I observe double stars with it.  I can tell straight away if the seeing supports my observations.  At this time of the year, checking Castor in the early evening will tell me if I can observe tighter and dimmer doubles.  

 

Fingers crossed you can determine quickly if you can keep the Intes.  It would be a shame if it didn't live up to your expectations.

 

Good luck,

 

Roberto



#98 NevelP

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 08:18 AM

Do you know the previous owner or where it was previously used? Unfortunately, I don't have any information about the age of the telescope or why the previous owner parted with it.

The previous owner advertised this scope on the German forum first, see here.



#99 NevelP

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 08:21 AM

As for your other question: you could see in the pictures posted by APM where the previous owner used this scope (small outside observatory).



#100 thebonz

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 01:05 PM

The mirror looks a little dirty to me but the condensation looks like it is on the meniscus. I cannot tell if it is on the inside or outside of the meniscus




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