71 replies to this topic

[lucutes]

I think you guys are missing the point of the Plena and the Nikon Z system. I can set this up at a dark site, with a small tracking mount and only spend 2 hours collecting data instead of 4 or 6 then I don't need an EAF and I don't need 3-4 minute subs, I don't need auto guiding. The corners and stars are better than anything a Rokinon will give at f/2 and I am shooting at f/1.8 .

 

If you have the doe and want to have fun this is an option.

Edited by lucutes, 18 June 2025 - 02:50 PM.

[dan_hm]

I think you guys are missing the point of the Plena and the Nikon Z system. I can set this up at a dark site, with a small tracking mount and only spend 2 hours collecting data instead of 4 or 6 then I don't need an EAF and I don't need 3-4 minute subs, I don't need auto guiding. The corners and stars are better than anything a Rokinon will give at f/2 and I am shooting at f/1.8 .

If you have the doe and want to have fun this is an option.

But the bigger problem is that Nikon cameras aren’t well suited to astro. Last I heard they universally suffer from concentric ringing. The Z6 I used certainly did - data was junk. I’d much rather use a FF ZWO camera connected to a Rokinon 135 or (preferably) my Sigma Art 135. And I don’t technically need autofocus on either of those (but I can use my Astromechanics EF focusers on my Sigma - another advantage over a Nikon lens).

[lucutes]

To avoid the ringing it was discovered to either use ISO800 or 3200. All in camera corrections off and I haven't had any issues since. Look in Astrobin and you will find no shortage of great looking Nikon Z6 photos.

[vidrazor]

I can set this up at a dark site, with a small tracking mount and only spend 2 hours collecting data instead of 4 or 6...

Well, you can do that, but the reality is that you can never have enough data collected. So, it's better to still spend 4 or 6 hours.

 

And you will still need to dither, or else your evening's work will go to waste.

[whwang]

To avoid the ringing it was discovered to either use ISO800 or 3200. All in camera corrections off and I haven't had any issues since. Look in Astrobin and you will find no shortage of great looking Nikon Z6 photos.

Hi,

 

Could you point us to any test results that definitely show ISO800 or 3200 can avoid the circular color banding?  Many people will appreciate that.

[lucutes]

Here's the latest stack of 15. No flats. ISO800, 30 seconds.

Attached Thumbnails

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[stars-Dust]

Here's the latest stack of 15. No flats. ISO800, 30 seconds.

If I may ask

 

is the Z6-1 modified? 

[lucutes]

If I may ask

 

is the Z6-1 modified? 

Yes, Z6ii (a).

 

 

Hi,

 

Could you point us to any test results that definitely show ISO800 or 3200 can avoid the circular color banding?  Many people will appreciate that.

I am busy for the next week or two but I will try and get a stack of flats and darks for you.  Again if you go on AstroBin and see for yourself people are getting great DSO images with these cameras. The important part is making sure you have all in camera corrections off. Even under neutral picture profile you need to go in and turn off sharpening etc. The Z6 and Z6ii also are some of the last cameras to have RAW output files instead of the new lossless compressed formats. I know full well about colour banding as my Z50 had it when I used it on my RASA 8. However that was before I knew better. 

https://app.astrobin.../530/nikon-z6ii

Cheers

Edited by lucutes, 27 June 2025 - 11:05 AM.

[whwang]

I am busy for the next week or two but I will try and get a stack of flats and darks for you.  Again if you go on AstroBin and see for yourself people are getting great DSO images with these cameras. The important part is making sure you have all in camera corrections off. Even under neutral picture profile you need to go in and turn off sharpening etc. The Z6 and Z6ii also are some of the last cameras to have RAW output files instead of the new lossless compressed formats. I know full well about colour banding as my Z50 had it when I used it on my RASA 8. However that was before I knew better. 

 

It will be much more convincing if you can follow Mark's test protocol and shoot flats under controlled conditions.  

 

Stacked images or even others' published pictures are not good indicators for the lack of problems.  Published pictures all have undergone unknown amount of post processing.  Not having issues in those images does not imply the nonexistence of the issues.  And using your picture in #56 as an example, it may appear free from the color banding problem, but its background is dominated by sky gradient.  It's hard to tell if it's free from the color banding, or the color banding is simply hidden by the sky background.  All it says is under your sky and your processing, the problem is not apparent.  It doesn't guarantee the problem wouldn't be there if someone uses the same camera under a much darker sky or using a much more rigorous processing workflow.

 

So, a controlled test is what's needed to convince others to invest thousands of dollars on a camera.  For yourself, if you are very happy with the camera, then of course it's good.  I feel happy for you too.

[stars-Dust]

The spectrum for post processing is very wide. it ranges from touching to cheating.

 

As long as the post processing is honest and "touching type" of processing,  I do not see an issue with Nikon cameras even with the coloured rings (with mark's and other people recommendations and some honest PP) , as many other DSLR have there own issues.

 

It is difficult to make the assumption that all the numerous Nikon camera users for astrophotography are using heavy PP to hide coloured rings.

 

So looking at the images at Astrobin has to have meaningful aspects.

[lucutes]

I will get you some stacked flats when I get back from my vacation. I am not sure when I will get the Z6ii out for astro as I am in the middle of a move and the moon is out so that doesn't help. I would like to avoid thread drift though and stick with the Plena and getting more test results with that lens. 

[elgol20]

the Plena is excellent, not perfect, but excellent. I have used the Zeiss Apo 135/2.0, the Sigma Art 135mm and the Sigma Art 105 with Nikon. The plena is better than all. 

 

main qualities of the Plena according to my findings:

 

* lowest vignetting of all, no aperture vignetting and fully usable at f/1.8

* no dew formation on the lens! I had several nights on La Palma with 100% humitity, using no dew heater and the lens was always clear. Also when coming out from a concert into the (winter) cold it stays clear

* good temperature stability of focus. haven't tested this to the most, but did not need to refocus on the Z7 for at least 3 degrees

* fully usably at f/1.8, better stars than Sigma etc

[elgol20]

a comarison of a single sub left Plean with Z7, right Sigma Art 135mm with D810a, both f/1.8

Attached Thumbnails

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[primeshooter]

the Plena is excellent, not perfect, but excellent. I have used the Zeiss Apo 135/2.0, the Sigma Art 135mm and the Sigma Art 105 with Nikon. The plena is better than all. 

 

main qualities of the Plena according to my findings:

 

* lowest vignetting of all, no aperture vignetting and fully usable at f/1.8

* no dew formation on the lens! I had several nights on La Palma with 100% humitity, using no dew heater and the lens was always clear. Also when coming out from a concert into the (winter) cold it stays clear

* good temperature stability of focus. haven't tested this to the most, but did not need to refocus on the Z7 for at least 3 degrees

* fully usably at f/1.8, better stars than Sigma etc

Looks good. The Sigma could do with a removable tripod foot like their 14/1.4 etc. Surprised it wasn't built with one. Would make it easier to balance on lighter setups if it had this.

[vidrazor]

a comarison of a single sub left Plean with Z7, right Sigma Art 135mm with D810a, both f/1.8

Although the Plena may be a better optic, at least compare identically.

[elgol20]

Looks good. The Sigma could do with a removable tripod foot like their 14/1.4 etc. Surprised it wasn't built with one. Would make it easier to balance on lighter setups if it had this.

It is actaully a lot easier even:

 

https://www.astrosho...wE&utm_content=

 

a 90mm clamp fits perfectly around the ring where the L-Fn buttons are. The clamp comes on a losmandy bar for me. the lens hood could be used for a bit further stabilisation but for me just the clamp did suffice. even a motofocus could be applied, but since the Plena is so temperature stable no need (yet)

[elgol20]

Although the Plena may be a better optic, at least compare identically.

why? scaling the difference will easily do the job. It is better, there is no "may be"

Edited by elgol20, 09 July 2025 - 02:51 AM.

[primeshooter]

It is actaully a lot easier even:

 

https://www.astrosho...wE&utm_content=

 

a 90mm clamp fits perfectly around the ring where the L-Fn buttons are. The clamp comes on a losmandy bar for me. the lens hood could be used for a bit further stabilisation but for me just the clamp did suffice. even a motofocus could be applied, but since the Plena is so temperature stable no need (yet)

I just meant without having to buy other bits, potentially scratching the lens and also considering daylight photography on a tripod, most will be mounting the mirrorless body to the tripod; not the lens (as it has no foot) it's a heck of a lot of weight to apply a moment of force that distal to the centre of rotation. 

Edited by primeshooter, 09 July 2025 - 04:59 AM.

[elgol20]

I just meant without having to buy other bits, potentially scratching the lens and also considering daylight photography on a tripod, most will be mounting the mirrorless body to the tripod; not the lens (as it has no foot) it's a heck of a lot of weight to apply a moment of force that distal to the centre of rotation. 

you can buy lens collars for the plena. with the one shown above things are save. no scratches, easy rotation, no falling and breaking risk more than any other item. The Z7 wheighs almost nothing. My findings

[vidrazor]

why? scaling the difference will easily do the job. It is better, there is no "may be"

Fine, just show them at the same scale.
 

[elgol20]

Fine, just show them at the same scale.
 

you forgot to say please

[vidrazor]

you forgot to say please

So the Plena isn't really all that much better then.