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Canon R5

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#1 Francois314

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Posted 22 January 2024 - 03:19 AM

I am wondering how many of us are planning to use a Canon Mirror less camera like the R5, R6 or R7 to photograph the next TSE in April.

 

the greatest advantage of a mirrorless camera is that we do not have to wait 2-3 sec for the mirror to stop shaking (using mirror lockup), this means more time taking exposures, less time waiting. This is important if you plan to enhance the corona using Druckmüller's method (http://www.zam.fme.v...lipse/index.htm), results are incredible but we need lots of exposure time to deal with noise far away from the sun, more info on our cloudynight forum: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/888126-solar-eclipse-image-processing-achf-fnrgf/

 

the problem with canon mirrorless cameras is that none of usual software control works

 

 - magic lantern does not work passed 5DIV

 - eclipse orchestrator does not work (R5 not supported)

 - capture eclipse works only with mac

 - Solar Eclipse Maestro works only with mac

 - SETnC works but has very limited functionalities

 

i downloaded the Canon ESDK thinking i could write an Arduino script to control my camera but it's complicated not very well documented. I even started a project with freelancer.com but it looks like it would cost about 1000$ to make the code (too much for a hobby)

 

Anyway, i get back to my original question: Are you planning to use a Canon mirror less camera and how are you planning to control it ?

 

 

 



#2 dhkaiser

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Posted 22 January 2024 - 06:59 AM

I have been practicing with my R5 and 100-500mm lens.  Here is a cropped example using the 2x.  Debating using the 600/f4 for wider view and higher res.  Either way will use exposure bracketing.

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Edited by dhkaiser, 22 January 2024 - 06:59 AM.

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#3 ch-viladrich

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Posted 22 January 2024 - 08:00 AM

Indeed, using auto-bracketing is an interesting alternate approach.

 

With my Nikon Z7, I can cover 1/250 s to 1 s exposure at 1 EV interval. I can change the interval if I want.

 

When used with burst mode and a remote control, I just have one push to give (a few seconds before C2) at the remote control to image automatically the eclipse all trought out the totality. No need for a heavy computer.

 

For partial phases, it is also quite possible to program the remote control in order to have a 10s burst every 10 min (or so).


Edited by ch-viladrich, 22 January 2024 - 08:03 AM.


#4 KevinMerchant

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Posted 22 January 2024 - 06:01 PM

Hi Francois314,

 

Speaking to Eclipse Orchestrator and Canon mirrorless bodies (R5 & R7), you need to download the "Beta Test Version". 3.9.1, built on April 18, 2023. Don't let the "beta" description stop you from using it. Per the developer (Fred Bruenjes) it is a build that adds more recent Canon & Nikon bodies, using the latest respective SDK's. I have it working on both bodies and am deep into developing scripts on a Windows 10 platform.

 

The free version, while quite limited, does allow you to connect a camera and do some rudimentary script tests to verify functionality. To get the most mileage out of EO, you will need to add the serial cable for shutter release control. Without that, the time savings of not needing MLU (mirror lockup) will be less advantageous. Every command that is sent to the camera via USB takes time. The serial cable bypasses the camera's USB to provide direct shutter releases as if you were using a shutter release cable.

 

Also, when you pay for the full working version of EO, they will send you an updated User Manual. While the web site seems to be somewhat out of date, that has more to do with Fred being the sole developer of EO and quite busy with his "other" company.

 

The other consideration for the R5 & R7 - whether to use Electronic Shutter or Electronic First Curtain Shutter mode. The R5 does not support Electronic Shutter below 1/2s shutter speed and during totality, there will be a need for slower shutter speeds than 1/2s. Shutter shock will be an issue for Electronic First Curtain Shutter at certain shutter speeds.

 

I am planning to use EO for both an R5 setup and an R7 setup.

 

I hope that helps.



#5 Sleepy John

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Posted 25 January 2024 - 11:19 AM

Francois314,

 

I will use RP and R8 for dual shooting, you could get a old macbook for very cheap to run Solar Eclipse Maestro. Solar Eclipse Maestro is supporting later cameras which I plan to use.

 

I was following your project last year, have you made it to work yet? Very interested in more updates. Druckmüller's MMV peoject on his website has a very strict rules on camera settings and seems its not opened to public to use.



#6 agavephoto

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Posted 25 January 2024 - 12:42 PM

I don't think Solar Eclipse Maestro supports the R5 yet. There's a thread on the SEM bulletin board asking for support, but so far no version available for download publicly supports the R5.



#7 SkipW

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Posted 25 January 2024 - 03:31 PM

I'm working on a program in Windows 10 using the Canon EDSDK (EOS DSLR Software Development Kit) with the goal of controlling fairly complex sequencing for two Canon EOS R cameras. I want each of them to take single shots at regular intervals during the partial phase (likely every 10 seconds), then manually remove filters and  automatically switch the cameras to high-speed bracketed exposures for bracketed bursts at (probably also the same) intervals during totality, then manually replace filters and automatically switch cameras back to single shot after totality until the end of the eclipse.

 

So far I've successfully computer controlled the Shooting Mode selection (this is important for my plan, but only some of their cameras allow this - the R does, and it looks like the R5 does, too. See below), shutter (Tv), ISO, lens aperture (Av), and duration of time the shutter is fully (or partially) pressed. Exposure compensation value can be read but not set remotely (also see below). [Edit: this was not correct; exposure compensation can be read and set in modes where it is allowed (but not Manual mode, which I will be using for the eclipse, so it really doesn't matter).] I've just begun to work on the automatic sequencing portion of the project. I have not messed with Live Mode viewing or downloading the images as they are acquired - I intend to save images to the SD card and monitor using a small external 12V HDMI monitor to simplify things. This may change depending on how other facets of the project go.

 

I have not found a way to directly control, or even read, exposure bracketing range or number of exposures from the computer using documented SDK functions, although bracket step size can apparently* be read remotely. A workaround for the inability to change the bracketing settings that I have devised is to pre-program the desired bracketing parameters - Manual shooting mode, HS Burst shutter mode, desired ISO, desired center-of-range exposure time, step size (up to 3 EV per step in multiples of 1/2 or 1/3 EV, giving as much as ±6 EV total range) and number of exposures in the sequence (2, 3, 5, or 7) into one of the "Custom" modes C1, C2, or C3, then select among M, C1, C2, and C3 as needed during the sequence. I am intending on using Manual (M) mode for the partial phases and one of the C modes for the bracketed sequences (or possibly more than one if I have separate brackets for Baily's Beads /diamond ring, and totality - we'll see). This is why the ability to change mode remotely is important.

 

I have found the EDSDK documentation to be pretty good for the camera-related functions once I got used to its organization and how the information is presented. One place where it could be vastly improved is where they give a very cursory discussion about how to use it from multiple threads in the same Windows C++ program. What I've tried so far (not much) based on their very brief treatment of the subject doesn't work. At all. I'll need to be able to do this to adequately control more than one camera at the same time, but may have to fall back on something like running two instances of the program on the same computer - if that's possible - or controlling each camera from different computers if necessary. Don't know yet.

 

One important matter I have not seen discussed is camera power. I discovered while practicing for the annular eclipse last October that the internal battery was barely adequate for a cadence one exposure per minute for the duration of the eclipse (about three hours). Because of this it was necessary to change to a fresh, fully-charged battery right before the beginning of the eclipse, then watching the charge indicator like a hawk as it progressed. I also practiced swapping batteries during the dead time between shots, but doing so meant also having to restore some settings on the control program (Digi Cam Control) before the next shot, but fortunately I didn't need to do that. 

 

My total eclipse plans will involve many, many more exposures than I took for the annular eclipse, so expecting a single camera battery to be sufficient, and changing batteries in the few seconds between exposures are both clearly non-starters. To avoid the problem, I will use a high-capacity external battery Onsite Relay C coupler bundle with the correct "coupler" (battery adapter) for each camera. You'll also need a battery (and maybe charger) if you don't already have something suitable. The Relay C has input power via two USB C plugs and allows the external battery to be powered by more than one source, so a battery can be hot-swapped if needed - I don't think their Relay A system (USB A input) can do this. I'll be exercising these in the upcoming weeks to see how well they perform in realistic scenarios. Other power options, batteries, chargers, and accessories from Tether Tools are available. Not cheap, but how much of this stuff is?

 

* This is not explicitly documented, but reading exposure compensation when in Manual mode returns the bracket step size, at least for the R. Compensation is not a thing in M and always returns 0 if exposure bracketing is not active.


Edited by SkipW, 26 January 2024 - 12:19 AM.


#8 Francois314

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Posted 26 January 2024 - 12:04 AM

i got a quote from freelancer for 3500$$ grin.gif



#9 MrDadG

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Posted 26 January 2024 - 11:21 AM

Another option for power is the vertical grip for the EOS R (BG-E22) which holds 2x LP-E6NH, which should be plenty of power to get through just about anything you want to do for the eclipse, and it’s a no-cable, 100% integrated solution.


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#10 SkipW

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Posted 26 January 2024 - 01:03 PM

Another option for power is the vertical grip for the EOS R (BG-E22) which holds 2x LP-E6NH, which should be plenty of power to get through just about anything you want to do for the eclipse, and it’s a no-cable, 100% integrated solution.

This could be a good option if it works for your situation. It does make the camera bulkier and heavier, though. My mount is going to be more crowded this time with an additional camera and telephoto lens, for a total of three sensors. I already have two cables (USB and HDMI) from each DSLR and two from the solar telescope (focuser and USB), so what's a couple extras wink.gif?



#11 Graymatter

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Posted 29 January 2024 - 05:44 AM

For my Canon R6, I use an Anker PowerCore. On the R6, it connects via the USB-C port on the side;  just make sure that it's a Power Delivery Power Bank (PD). You will also need a USB-C charging cable rated for Power Delivery.

I chose the 45w battery bank (more robust than the 30w) and 3d printed a holder to carry it that is velco strapped to my tripod. This solution works best when starting out with a fully charged camera battery (the R6 needs to see a battery in place to power up). I ran this for several hours during the October Annular Eclipse w/o issue and have had it out night imaging as well. Recharge is about 3 hours for 100%.

 

This also is a handy fast charger for my phone, but it is a bit bulky (can be carried in a coat pocket or cargo shorts).

 

CS,
Gary



#12 Lukasz

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Posted 15 February 2024 - 05:20 PM

I'm working on a program in Windows 10 using the Canon EDSDK (EOS DSLR Software Development Kit) with the goal of controlling fairly complex sequencing for two Canon EOS R cameras. I want each of them to take single shots at regular intervals during the partial phase (likely every 10 seconds), then manually remove filters and  automatically switch the cameras to high-speed bracketed exposures for bracketed bursts at (probably also the same) intervals during totality, then manually replace filters and automatically switch cameras back to single shot after totality until the end of the eclipse.

 

So far I've successfully computer controlled the Shooting Mode selection (this is important for my plan, but only some of their cameras allow this - the R does, and it looks like the R5 does, too. See below), shutter (Tv), ISO, lens aperture (Av), and duration of time the shutter is fully (or partially) pressed. Exposure compensation value can be read but not set remotely (also see below). [Edit: this was not correct; exposure compensation can be read and set in modes where it is allowed (but not Manual mode, which I will be using for the eclipse, so it really doesn't matter).] I've just begun to work on the automatic sequencing portion of the project. I have not messed with Live Mode viewing or downloading the images as they are acquired - I intend to save images to the SD card and monitor using a small external 12V HDMI monitor to simplify things. This may change depending on how other facets of the project go.

 

I have not found a way to directly control, or even read, exposure bracketing range or number of exposures from the computer using documented SDK functions, although bracket step size can apparently* be read remotely. A workaround for the inability to change the bracketing settings that I have devised is to pre-program the desired bracketing parameters - Manual shooting mode, HS Burst shutter mode, desired ISO, desired center-of-range exposure time, step size (up to 3 EV per step in multiples of 1/2 or 1/3 EV, giving as much as ±6 EV total range) and number of exposures in the sequence (2, 3, 5, or 7) into one of the "Custom" modes C1, C2, or C3, then select among M, C1, C2, and C3 as needed during the sequence. I am intending on using Manual (M) mode for the partial phases and one of the C modes for the bracketed sequences (or possibly more than one if I have separate brackets for Baily's Beads /diamond ring, and totality - we'll see). This is why the ability to change mode remotely is important.

 

I have found the EDSDK documentation to be pretty good for the camera-related functions once I got used to its organization and how the information is presented. One place where it could be vastly improved is where they give a very cursory discussion about how to use it from multiple threads in the same Windows C++ program. What I've tried so far (not much) based on their very brief treatment of the subject doesn't work. At all. I'll need to be able to do this to adequately control more than one camera at the same time, but may have to fall back on something like running two instances of the program on the same computer - if that's possible - or controlling each camera from different computers if necessary. Don't know yet.

 

One important matter I have not seen discussed is camera power. I discovered while practicing for the annular eclipse last October that the internal battery was barely adequate for a cadence one exposure per minute for the duration of the eclipse (about three hours). Because of this it was necessary to change to a fresh, fully-charged battery right before the beginning of the eclipse, then watching the charge indicator like a hawk as it progressed. I also practiced swapping batteries during the dead time between shots, but doing so meant also having to restore some settings on the control program (Digi Cam Control) before the next shot, but fortunately I didn't need to do that. 

 

My total eclipse plans will involve many, many more exposures than I took for the annular eclipse, so expecting a single camera battery to be sufficient, and changing batteries in the few seconds between exposures are both clearly non-starters. To avoid the problem, I will use a high-capacity external battery Onsite Relay C coupler bundle with the correct "coupler" (battery adapter) for each camera. You'll also need a battery (and maybe charger) if you don't already have something suitable. The Relay C has input power via two USB C plugs and allows the external battery to be powered by more than one source, so a battery can be hot-swapped if needed - I don't think their Relay A system (USB A input) can do this. I'll be exercising these in the upcoming weeks to see how well they perform in realistic scenarios. Other power options, batteries, chargers, and accessories from Tether Tools are available. Not cheap, but how much of this stuff is?

 

* This is not explicitly documented, but reading exposure compensation when in Manual mode returns the bracket step size, at least for the R. Compensation is not a thing in M and always returns 0 if exposure bracketing is not active.

Ok, but SDK is for commercial use (you have to have your own business). You can't get it for personal use. If you did, tell me how to do that laugh.gif


Edited by Lukasz, 15 February 2024 - 05:20 PM.


#13 SkipW

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Posted 15 February 2024 - 06:15 PM

Ok, but SDK is for commercial use (you have to have your own business). You can't get it for personal use. If you did, tell me how to do that laugh.gif

Are you in North, South, or Central America? Here's what I did:

Visit the Canon Developer Community website: https://developercom...sa.canon.com/s/

 

The How do I apply for a development tool (SDK, API, ... link takes you to a page that says:

 

QUESTION

How do I apply for a development tool (SDK, API, Etc..)?
ANSWER
You must be a registered member of the Canon Developer Community to access any SDK, API, etc..
Once logged in the Canon Developer Community:
Click on SDK | API | Downloads on top menu bar
Click on the product category you are interested in
From the tab menu, click on the SDK or API you are interested in.
Fill out the form and hit submit
Processing can take up to 60 seconds. Refresh your browser to see the file list.

The page at the Who is eligible to download development tools files from this website? link says:

 

QUESTION

Who is eligible to download development tools files from this website?
ANSWER
Software developers residing in North, Central and South America are eligible to request a Canon Development Tools through this site.
PLEASE NOTE: We are prohibited by Canon Inc. from distributing Canon Development Tools to developers residing outside our sales area.

 

Nothing there about having your own business.

 

As stated, you do need to register with the community, though, which is easy. 

 

From the initial page, click the LOGIN | REGISTER link to the right of the search bar.

 

Click the REGISTER HERE link below the login fields.

 

Fill out the form and submit it.

 

Once your registration has been processed you will receive an email with credentials (this was quick, if I recall correctly). Log in, change the PW to suit, and proceed. 

 

Once logged in, you can download the SDK through the SDK | API | DOWNLOADS link in the banner below the search bar.

 

I also recommend downloading and installing their EOS Webcam Utility - it's really slick and lets me use my full-frame mirrorless DSLR with its enormous sensor with SharpCap for polar aligning, which is a godsend!

 

If you aren't in the Americas, I can't help you. I tried logging in to my existing account from New Zealand a little while ago and couldn't get in from an NZ IP address.


Edited by SkipW, 15 February 2024 - 07:34 PM.

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#14 Lukasz

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Posted 22 February 2024 - 03:16 PM

Are you in North, South, or Central America? Here's what I did:

Visit the Canon Developer Community website: https://developercom...sa.canon.com/s/

 

The How do I apply for a development tool (SDK, API, ... link takes you to a page that says:

 

The page at the Who is eligible to download development tools files from this website? link says:

 

 

Nothing there about having your own business.

 

As stated, you do need to register with the community, though, which is easy. 

 

From the initial page, click the LOGIN | REGISTER link to the right of the search bar.

 

Click the REGISTER HERE link below the login fields.

 

Fill out the form and submit it.

 

Once your registration has been processed you will receive an email with credentials (this was quick, if I recall correctly). Log in, change the PW to suit, and proceed. 

 

Once logged in, you can download the SDK through the SDK | API | DOWNLOADS link in the banner below the search bar.

 

I also recommend downloading and installing their EOS Webcam Utility - it's really slick and lets me use my full-frame mirrorless DSLR with its enormous sensor with SharpCap for polar aligning, which is a godsend!

 

If you aren't in the Americas, I can't help you. I tried logging in to my existing account from New Zealand a little while ago and couldn't get in from an NZ IP address.

I did what you have wrote, but as i said, company is needed (attachement).

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Edited by Lukasz, 22 February 2024 - 03:21 PM.


#15 SkipW

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Posted 22 February 2024 - 07:44 PM

I did what you have wrote, but as i said, company is needed (attachement).

Have you registered? I don't recall seeing that screen - maybe I did when first registered, but I've slept a few times and had some beers since then. Whenever I need to check something now, I just log in and can go straight to the downloads.

 

I'm retired and have been since long before I signed up last fall. I do contract programming work from time to time but don't have a Company Website.

 

Regardless, if you can't avoid answering those questions and you're working, can't you just put the website of the company you're working for if a valid website is required? Say the Primary Industry of the application is "Astronomical" (if it is) or the closest match if you have to select from a list (which looks like it's the case). The rest of the boxes should be self-evident.



#16 johnpane

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 06:07 AM

Can Eclipse Orchestrator be run effectively in VMWare Fusion with Windows 11 on a Mac with an ARM cpu (M1, M2, M3)?


Edited by johnpane, 10 March 2024 - 06:07 AM.


#17 agavephoto

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 12:25 PM

I've been using a beta version of SEM (1.9.2-100) that can talk to the R5, but so far I cannot get full functionality (I was told the beta version didn't fully support the R5 at the start). The usual method of setting high speed mode for Canon cameras by using 100 in the CHGCSSL command never gets the R5 into high frame rate for me. In my testing, TAKEBST can also get the camera into a loop of only one exposure infinitely until I turn the camera off (even when USB is disconnected).

 

TAKEPIC can only get me about one photo per second, but RAMPUP sequences are faster than with a 5D4.

 

Posting this mostly for information should others find it useful, but if anyone has found solutions to these things, I'm happy to learn. 



#18 Anhydrite

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 01:27 PM

This could be a good option if it works for your situation. It does make the camera bulkier and heavier, though. My mount is going to be more crowded this time with an additional camera and telephoto lens, for a total of three sensors. I already have two cables (USB and HDMI) from each DSLR and two from the solar telescope (focuser and USB), so what's a couple extras wink.gif?

For powering my EOS R, I am using the Dummy battery, except im connecting it directly to a DC source instead of the AC adapter.

I got a 12v to 8V step down converter to reduce the voltage to match the AC adapter output.

 

Running it off a 12V LIFEPO4 battery.



#19 mcordier

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Posted 12 March 2024 - 10:42 PM

I've been using a beta version of SEM (1.9.2-100) that can talk to the R5, but so far I cannot get full functionality (I was told the beta version didn't fully support the R5 at the start). The usual method of setting high speed mode for Canon cameras by using 100 in the CHGCSSL command never gets the R5 into high frame rate for me. In my testing, TAKEBST can also get the camera into a loop of only one exposure infinitely until I turn the camera off (even when USB is disconnected).

 

TAKEPIC can only get me about one photo per second, but RAMPUP sequences are faster than with a 5D4.

 

Posting this mostly for information should others find it useful, but if anyone has found solutions to these things, I'm happy to learn. 

how did you get the beta version? I can't find it listed on SEM's website.  what sort of functionality isn't working with the R5.  I've used BYE in the past and am much more familiar with BYE, but the frame rate is just too slow to capture some of the faster eclipse events



#20 mcordier

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Posted 12 March 2024 - 10:46 PM

Hi Francois314,

 

Speaking to Eclipse Orchestrator and Canon mirrorless bodies (R5 & R7), you need to download the "Beta Test Version". 3.9.1, built on April 18, 2023. Don't let the "beta" description stop you from using it. Per the developer (Fred Bruenjes) it is a build that adds more recent Canon & Nikon bodies, using the latest respective SDK's. I have it working on both bodies and am deep into developing scripts on a Windows 10 platform.

 

The free version, while quite limited, does allow you to connect a camera and do some rudimentary script tests to verify functionality. To get the most mileage out of EO, you will need to add the serial cable for shutter release control. Without that, the time savings of not needing MLU (mirror lockup) will be less advantageous. Every command that is sent to the camera via USB takes time. The serial cable bypasses the camera's USB to provide direct shutter releases as if you were using a shutter release cable.

 

Also, when you pay for the full working version of EO, they will send you an updated User Manual. While the web site seems to be somewhat out of date, that has more to do with Fred being the sole developer of EO and quite busy with his "other" company.

 

The other consideration for the R5 & R7 - whether to use Electronic Shutter or Electronic First Curtain Shutter mode. The R5 does not support Electronic Shutter below 1/2s shutter speed and during totality, there will be a need for slower shutter speeds than 1/2s. Shutter shock will be an issue for Electronic First Curtain Shutter at certain shutter speeds.

 

I am planning to use EO for both an R5 setup and an R7 setup.

 

I hope that helps.

do you have a link to the serial shutter release cable for the R5?  i was only able to find a serial shutter release cable with at 3.5mm jack on it



#21 agavephoto

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Posted 12 March 2024 - 10:57 PM

how did you get the beta version? I can't find it listed on SEM's website.  what sort of functionality isn't working with the R5.  I've used BYE in the past and am much more familiar with BYE, but the frame rate is just too slow to capture some of the faster eclipse events

There is a post on the SEM forums where someone asked about this, and Xavier said to email him. I did this and was kindly sent a link to download a beta version. Since this is not my software, I won't share the link without permission from the developer. For me, what isn't working are setting the R5 into high frame rate mode via CHGCSSL (so I only get ~1fps) and TAKEBST won't let the R5 see the (some?) next change in parameters and it keeps firing endlessly until I power the camera off. TAKEPIC and RAMPUP work fine for me, though. 



#22 KevinMerchant

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Posted 13 March 2024 - 12:20 PM

do you have a link to the serial shutter release cable for the R5?  i was only able to find a serial shutter release cable with at 3.5mm jack on it

I bought the cable from Shoestring Astronomy - http://www.store.sho...products_ds.htm. Unfortunately, you won't be able to get anything from them, per the note at the top of the web page, until after the eclipse.

 

From what I can tell, the cable seems to be a re-sell item. I have tried to locate a supplier but had no such luck finding one.

 

Kevin


Edited by KevinMerchant, 13 March 2024 - 12:21 PM.


#23 tepetit53

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Posted 14 March 2024 - 08:14 AM

Shutter release cable for Canon 2.5mm 

 

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1



#24 chvvkumar

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Posted 15 March 2024 - 07:36 AM

Shutter release cable for Canon 2.5mm 

 

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You will need other  cables to use the cable you linked over USB. I use an N3 cable for my 6DII but the rest should be similar. I detailed what I had to get here:

 

https://www.cloudyni...dm2/?p=13283184



#25 Francois314

Francois314

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Posted 18 March 2024 - 10:22 PM

i skip how many pictures can you take per second? 

 

i use matlab and digicam control it works but it's slow i can take a picture / second maximum.

 

the main advatnage is that the code is super simple:

 

C = CameraController;
Speed = {'0.5', '0.3', '1/4', '1/6', '1/8', '1/10', '1/15', '1/20', ...

         '1/30', '1/45', '1/60', '1/90', '1/125', '1/180', '1/250', ...
         '1/350', '1/500', '1/750', '1/1000'};

for i = 1: length(Speed)
    C.camera.shutterspeed = Speed{i};
    %C.camera.isonumber = 200;
    C.Capture
end





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