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Orion Linear Binoviewer: Yes or No?

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#26 Sarkikos

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Posted 30 January 2024 - 09:42 AM

In the Linears, vignetting doesn't provoque reduction of the image's brightness toward the periphery. So doesn't matter the object observed.
In Linears the limits of fov become narrower. When it is little it is difficult to see at night. During the day it is easier, since you can see a blue perimeter band.

I never binoview during the day.  I virtually never use any telescopes during the day, only at night for astronomy.

 

Mike



#27 Takuan

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Posted 30 January 2024 - 02:38 PM

I never binoview during the day. I virtually never use any telescopes during the day, only at night for astronomy.

Mike


Me neither, but with high FS in the Linears you lose AFOV, So I don't recomend.

#28 Sarkikos

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Posted 30 January 2024 - 08:38 PM

Yeah, Delos 17.3mm which has a 21.2mm effective field stop diameter. It's actually decent with just (my recollection here) that the far left edge of the left field and the far right edge of the right field were degraded. For that test the feeding F# was F/5. But otherwise things looked good to me, with no obvious vignetting noticed.    Tom

The Delos 17.3 are about 56mm in width.  IIRC, my IPD is a little wider than the average, which is about 63mm.  So, I should be able to handle them in the Orion Linear. 

 

But the combined weight of the pair is about 1.8 lbs.  The Linear is about 1.5 lbs.   Total = 3.3 lbs.  I don't know if the telescope would be able to handle it.  :grin:

 

Mike



#29 Sarkikos

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Posted 30 January 2024 - 08:56 PM

I recall that in another thread, one observer said they liked the 18 BCO and 25 Fujiyama Orthos as low-power eyepieces in the Orion Linear.  Their field stops are 16.8 and 22.2mm respectively.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 30 January 2024 - 08:58 PM.


#30 betacygni

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Posted 30 January 2024 - 09:13 PM

I recall that in another thread, one observer said they liked the 18 BCO and 25 Fujiyama Orthos as low-power eyepieces in the Orion Linear. Their field stops are 16.8 and 22.2mm respectively.

Mike

18.2mm Delites might be a good fit, 19mm field stops. Given you’ll be running at native focal ratio, Televue’s obsession with edge correction might come into play. They are plenty comfy too especially if decloaked, and relatively light weight.

Edited by betacygni, 30 January 2024 - 09:13 PM.

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#31 Sarkikos

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Posted 30 January 2024 - 10:20 PM

18.2mm Delites might be a good fit, 19mm field stops. Given you’ll be running at native focal ratio, Televue’s obsession with edge correction might come into play. They are plenty comfy too especially if decloaked, and relatively light weight.

I was thinking about the 18.2 Delites.  In fact, for a moment I thought they were what TOMDEY had in his pic.  I had to go back and double check.  I think I'd rather go with the Delites. 

 

Mike


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#32 Bintang13

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Posted 31 January 2024 - 12:43 PM

The 18.2mm Delites work very well for us in a 10” Dob and Orion Linear Binoviewers as well as 15mm APM 65degree eyepieces. The 16mm ES 68degree work almost as well as the first two but the ER is tight. I have tried 26mm Silvertops but the field stops are definitely too large. The Linear Binoviewers rekindled our use of the Dob, they provided a brighter image than conventional binoviewers, in our opinion. There are trade offs, it does ghost on bright stars just outside of its field but does not take away from the experience.

 

Jim


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#33 Sarkikos

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Posted 31 January 2024 - 08:47 PM

I'll wait until I actually have the Orion Linears in hand before I order a pair of 18.2 Delites.  :grin:

 

Mike



#34 Bob4BVM

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Posted 01 February 2024 - 03:05 PM

Here are some test results to consider on the LBV-

https://www.cloudyni.../#entry12892456

 

Not all roses ?


Edited by Bob4BVM, 01 February 2024 - 03:06 PM.


#35 Sarkikos

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Posted 01 February 2024 - 06:22 PM

Here are some test results to consider on the LBV-

https://www.cloudyni.../#entry12892456

 

Not all roses ?

I've already read it.  Remember, roses have thorns.  grin.gif

 

I keep coming back to this:  What other binoviewer can be moved easily among all my different telescopes without needing a Barlow or OCS to come to focus?

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 01 February 2024 - 06:23 PM.


#36 kroum

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Posted 01 February 2024 - 06:51 PM

I've already read it.  Remember, roses have thorns.  grin.gif

 

I keep coming back to this:  What other binoviewer can be moved easily among all my different telescopes without needing a Barlow or OCS to come to focus?

 

Mike

Why is the use of an OCS/barlow such a sticking point?

 

Yes, using one does scale up the eyepiece focal length and magnification, but all it is, is the equivalent of imposing a limit to the clear aperture, which the linear binoviewer also imposes. 

I see the situation as half a dozen of one vs 6 of the other.

With the linear binoviewer you get the native focal length of the eyepiece and it is nominally parfocal, but you impose a limit to the eyepiece field stop which limits which eyepieces are compatible with the binoviewer.

 

 With a large prism binoviewer + OCS, you have to live with a scaling factor for your eyepiece focal length and all that entails, but you can use essentially any 1.25” eyepiece in.

 

In the end the lowest possible magnification and largest possible true field of view are very similar for either setup and the same is probably true for image quality.

 

Is the case the same for the top end of the magnification range?

I’ve never used a linear binoviewer so I have no idea.



#37 Sarkikos

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Posted 01 February 2024 - 08:05 PM

Why is the use of an OCS/barlow such a sticking point?

 

Yes, using one does scale up the eyepiece focal length and magnification, but all it is, is the equivalent of imposing a limit to the clear aperture, which the linear binoviewer also imposes. 

I see the situation as half a dozen of one vs 6 of the other.

With the linear binoviewer you get the native focal length of the eyepiece and it is nominally parfocal, but you impose a limit to the eyepiece field stop which limits which eyepieces are compatible with the binoviewer.

 

 With a large prism binoviewer + OCS, you have to live with a scaling factor for your eyepiece focal length and all that entails, but you can use essentially any 1.25” eyepiece in.

 

In the end the lowest possible magnification and largest possible true field of view are very similar for either setup and the same is probably true for image quality.

 

Is the case the same for the top end of the magnification range?

I’ve never used a linear binoviewer so I have no idea.

Why is the use of an OCS/barlow such a sticking point?

 

I already explained why:  I want to be able to easily move the binoviewer among all my different telescopes without needing a Barlow or OCS to come to focus.  I don't want to have to keep track of which telescope needs a Barlow or OCS to come to focus, and which Barlow or OCS I need to use in the ones that need them.  

 

Also, it's not just about the TFOV.  Exit pupil is a factor as well.  Lowest possible magnification and widest exit pupil would be possible with the Linears.  Not possible if I have to stack a binoviewer with a Barlow or OCS.

 

Also, I can use the Linear Binoviewer with a Paracorr in my Newts.  I can't do that with a standard binoviewer, like my Burgess. 

 

As I've said, just because I acquire the Orion Linear Binoviewer doesn't mean I'll get rid of my Burgess Binoviewer.  I'll still keep the latter for planet/lunar and double stars, where I'll want to stack it with a Barlow or OCS to increase the magnification.  But that all depends on how well the Orion Linear compares with the Burgess when observing planet/lunar and double stars.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 01 February 2024 - 08:08 PM.

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#38 David I

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 09:28 PM

Hi Mike,

I have the Linear with Delos 17.3mm  and yes together it's really heavy, wish I had bought the Delites.

 

I have no issues with the Linear except for a little practice with eye placement. 

 

David


Edited by David I, 02 February 2024 - 09:34 PM.

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#39 nof

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 11:49 PM

Has anyone tried the 25mm ES 52 degree eyepieces that ES was supplying with their version of this binoviewer?

#40 Sarkikos

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Posted 04 February 2024 - 08:33 AM

Has anyone tried the 25mm ES 52 degree eyepieces that ES was supplying with their version of this binoviewer?

I have the 30mm ES 52-degree.  I bought it a while back to use in a finder.  But in a fast scope, it shows pretty terrible astigmatism, from outer field going fairly close to center field.  It would have to be used in a slow scope.

 

I've never viewed through the 25mm ES 52-degree.  Chances are it would show astigmatism in a fast scope as well.

 

Mike



#41 Sarkikos

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Posted 07 February 2024 - 10:45 AM

Orion has pushed back the shipping date for the Linears to March 26th.  Is this their not so subtle way to suggest that the Linears are Unobtainium?

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 07 February 2024 - 10:46 AM.


#42 kroum

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Posted 07 February 2024 - 02:21 PM

Orion has pushed back the shipping date for the Linears to March 26th.  Is this their not so subtle way to suggest that the Linears are Unobtainium?

 

Mike

Omegon has theirs Amazon with a delivery date of Feb 12-15 and it’s a little bit cheaper + free shipping if you have Prime.


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#43 Sarkikos

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Posted 07 February 2024 - 02:48 PM

Omegon has theirs Amazon with a delivery date of Feb 12-15 and it’s a little bit cheaper + free shipping if you have Prime.

How does it compare to the Orion Linears?  Just another rebranding?

 

Mike



#44 kroum

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Posted 07 February 2024 - 02:51 PM

How does it compare to the Orion Linears?  Just another rebranding?

 

Mike

Other than the different color anodizing/powder coating, they look identical.

 

I admit I haven’t done in depth research, but my casual reading on the linear binoviewers gives me the impression that they are all mechanically and optically identical and come from the same factory: Long Perng and differ only in branding, color, and maybe small cosmetic details in the machining.


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#45 Sarkikos

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Posted 07 February 2024 - 02:53 PM

It seems that everything Orion has that I want - or wanted and already have - is no longer available or has an alleged shipping date that is periodically pushed ever farther into the future.   

 

I also have on order from Orion a 6" f/8 Dob, an older version that I prefer.  I've being getting emails from Orion about both these products that apparently are encouraging me to cancel the orders.  Orion, if you're not going to have these items ever again in stock, JUST TELL ME!   You won't offend me or hurt my feelings!   lol.gif

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 07 February 2024 - 02:54 PM.


#46 kroum

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Posted 07 February 2024 - 03:58 PM

It seems that everything Orion has that I want - or wanted and already have - is no longer available or has an alleged shipping date that is periodically pushed ever farther into the future.   

 

I also have on order from Orion a 6" f/8 Dob, an older version that I prefer.  I've being getting emails from Orion about both these products that apparently are encouraging me to cancel the orders.  Orion, if you're not going to have these items ever again in stock, JUST TELL ME!   You won't offend me or hurt my feelings!   lol.gif

 

Mike

That’s really unfortunate.  I’m a big fan or Orion and will forever be thankful for the endless patience the guys (mainly Ken) at their Cupertino store (now just a memory) showed to high school me when I first became interested in Astronomy as a hobby.  I spent many a lunch break and hours after school ogling all the gear I couldn’t afford and asking endless questions smile.gif


Edited by kroum, 07 February 2024 - 04:45 PM.

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#47 Sarkikos

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Posted 23 February 2024 - 10:42 AM

I am really getting tired of this:  Expected Ship Date: 04/15/2024.

 

4.gif flame.gif

 

The shipping date for the 6" f/8 Dob is also being pushed back farther and farther into the future:  Expected Ship Date: 02/27/2024.  At first it was 02/20.  When 02/20 came around, the shipping date changed to 02/23.  Now, on 02/23, the shipping date is supposed to be 02/27.  

 

Like I said:  It seems that everything Orion has that I want is no longer available or has an alleged shipping date that is periodically pushed ever farther into the future. ohmy.gif

 

I seriously think Orion wants customers to cancel these orders.  Orion, if you're not going to have these items ever again in stock, JUST TELL ME! poke.gif

 

Buying a linear binoviewer from a company in Germany is starting to look better and better.  

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 23 February 2024 - 10:48 AM.


#48 kimcheese

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Posted 23 February 2024 - 01:46 PM

Guessing not a issue with Orion.  Maybe the manufacture (Long Perng?).  Couple other retailers (agena and lunt) have been out of stock for awhile.  ES has their labeled version, but only in the kit with the EPs at a significantly higher price point.   That said. Went through the same wait.....forever for a Orion labeled product.  Sort of forgot about the counter weight until one day I received a shipping notification email.  Chinese New Year  holiday period ended on the 17th.  Hopefully with people back to work inventories will be replenished.  I would keep an eye out for the LongPerng labeled model at Agena. ~$60 less retail price. Same red black color scheme as the Orion and Lunt versions if it matters. 

 

After deciding I enjoy bino more than mono for solar and lunar observation was considering upgrading to a Baader MB II.  Then reality kicked in.  For the lower power and using the Lunt zooms.  All is good.  Have yet to try on the XT6. The AT102's focuser and the FeatherTouch on the Lunt is handling the relatively heavy load without issues. 


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#49 Sarkikos

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Posted 23 February 2024 - 03:42 PM

I noticed that Celestron binoviewers are on sale through AliExpress for only $89.  Some have been skeptical that these are "real" Celestron binoviewers.   I'm not that skeptical. 

 

But I also noticed that the clear aperture of the Celestrons is only 20mm, the same as my old Burgess binoviewers.   They very well could be two brandings of the same binoviewer.   And, of course, I'd have to use the Celestrons with a Barlow or OCS.  So, not happening.

 

I think in the meantime, until the Orion Linears are available, or I decide on another binoviewer, I'll just experiment with the Burgess I already own.   Maybe I can get them to come to focus in one of my scopes - besides the Cats - without a Barlow or OCS?  

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 23 February 2024 - 03:45 PM.


#50 Doug Culbertson

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Posted 23 February 2024 - 03:46 PM

First Light Optics shows four in stock for approximately $380 shipped. https://www.firstlig...binoviewer.html
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