Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Binoviewing with the Baader Travel Companion

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Astroman007

Astroman007

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,300
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2017
  • Loc: Latchford, Northern Ontario, Canada

Posted 30 January 2024 - 01:47 PM

Had a hard time deciding whether to post this in the refractor or binoviewer forum, hopefully this is the place...

 

I have a Baader 95/580 CaF2 Travel Companion on its way to me from Germany (ordered August '23), due to arrive this upcoming Monday via UPS. I also have on hand a Vernonscope binoviewer in its nice wooden box (link https://vernonscope.com/binoviewer/ ) that I purchased a few months ago, originally intending to use it with my Questar before finding it too heavy. The only eyepiece pair I currently have consists of 12mm Vernonscope Brandons, my most used planetary eyepieces in the Q. I don't know much about binoviewing, but I intend to get more into it this year. Which brings me to the main question (or series of questions): would this binoviewer work well with the Travel Companion, reaching focus without additional accessories if I used it with either the pair of eyepieces I have or the pair of Mark IV zooms I am thinking of purchasing soon for it? If not, what accessories would I need? I know vaguely about "glass path correctors" and "needs a barlow to reach focus" when it comes to other binoviewers, but not really what that translates to in my case. Do you think, given my equipment, that a pair of Mark IVs would be the right choice? Anyone used this combination of equipment with this scope, or binoviewed with the 95/580?

 

For reference in case you don't know first hand, the specs: https://www.baader-p...-companion.html

 

Thanks for your replies.


  • denis0007dl likes this

#2 kroum

kroum

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,327
  • Joined: 28 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Santa Clara, CA

Posted 30 January 2024 - 02:05 PM

This scope should be perfect for binoviewing since it has more than 200mm of back focus once you remove some sort of spacer (it looks like part of the white tube threads off before the focuser).  You most likely wouldn’t need an OCS/GPC if you remove that section, but for planetary and lunar observing, you will probably want one anyway instead of using very short focal length eyepieces.

 

Your binoviewer on the other hand, I think is sub-optimal for the capability of this scope because it only has 22mm clear aperture.

 

In my mind, such a short focal length scope’s main advantage for binoviewing is that it is capable of low power wide field views since you don’t need an OCS/GPC and can use eyepieces at their native focal lengths.  For this purpose, you’d want to maximize your clear aperture to the limit of the 1.25” barrel and your binoviewer leaves out valuable mm.  There are other binoviewers for the same or lower cost that have 25-26mm clear aperture and allow any 1.25” eyepiece to be used without significant vignetting including eyepieces like the 24mm panoptics and 32mm Plossls.


  • noisejammer, rob.0919, betacygni and 1 other like this

#3 betacygni

betacygni

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,694
  • Joined: 06 Feb 2011

Posted 30 January 2024 - 02:08 PM

Looks like your scope has a removable extension, that can be removed to give it 210mm of back focus. depending on your diagonal this should be enough to reach focus with most binoviewers, without using any glasspath, Barlow, etc. This is fine for low powers, but for medium to high powers you will still want to use an amplifier/glasspath/barlow etc (to reduce aberrations caused by binoviewer prisms). Which one is a bit more complicated and will depend on the rest of your system like the diagonal. The Televue 2.5x powermate would be a good start though (gives 2x in binoviewers), especially if your binoviewer has t2 nose threads.

As for eyepieces, yes the Baader zooms can work well if they fit your face and you have enough nose clearance. You can remove the adjustable eyecups to help a bit with this. They are fairly heavy though. Safer options in general are physically narrow eyepieces like Brandons (my personal favorites, and you seem to already like Vernonscope), Takahashi TPLs, Mayasuma 53*, Televue plossls, etc.

Edited by betacygni, 30 January 2024 - 02:12 PM.

  • Astroman007 likes this

#4 Astroman007

Astroman007

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,300
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2017
  • Loc: Latchford, Northern Ontario, Canada

Posted 30 January 2024 - 02:19 PM

Hi betacygni, for the diagonal I can either use my Baader BBHS amici prism or one of my Tele Vue Everbrites. Would the choice make a difference?

 

What would the "aberrations caused by binoviewer prisms" look like? A passing reflection, a "ghost?"

 

I have both 2x and 4x 2" Powermates already, wouldn't cause focus issues if between the focuser and diagonal?



#5 betacygni

betacygni

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,694
  • Joined: 06 Feb 2011

Posted 30 January 2024 - 07:03 PM

Hi betacygni, for the diagonal I can either use my Baader BBHS amici prism or one of my Tele Vue Everbrites. Would the choice make a difference?

What would the "aberrations caused by binoviewer prisms" look like? A passing reflection, a "ghost?"

I have both 2x and 4x 2" Powermates already, wouldn't cause focus issues if between the focuser and diagonal?

I’d go with the everbrite, prism diagonals don’t typically play well with fast scopes (especially when the binoviewers add another prism). I’m assuming the everbrite is one of the 2” models, if so it might not reach focus natively without an amplifier though, due to the long light path of 2” diagonals. If it’s the 1.25” everbrite you’ll probably be ok. The 2” diagonal should reach focus with using a powermate though.

Yes, those powermates should work well for higher power viewing. They will give a bit different magnifications though because of the binoviewers light path length, probably about 2.2x for the 2x powermate, and 4.5x for the 4x.

The aberrations caused by binoviewer prisms (or any large prism) are spherical aberration errors and false color, both of which will significantly hurt your higher power views. This is corrected however by optics designed to do so like the glasspath correctors, or by simply creating a longer effective focal ratio with a standard amplifier like a powermate/barlow (in slow focal ratio systems the prism aberrations become negligible).

Edited by betacygni, 30 January 2024 - 07:30 PM.

  • Astroman007 likes this

#6 Astroman007

Astroman007

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,300
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2017
  • Loc: Latchford, Northern Ontario, Canada

Posted 30 January 2024 - 10:08 PM

I’d go with the everbrite, prism diagonals don’t typically play well with fast scopes (especially when the binoviewers add another prism). I’m assuming the everbrite is one of the 2” models, if so it might not reach focus natively without an amplifier though, due to the long light path of 2” diagonals. If it’s the 1.25” everbrite you’ll probably be ok. The 2” diagonal should reach focus with using a powermate though.

Yes, those powermates should work well for higher power viewing. They will give a bit different magnifications though because of the binoviewers light path length, probably about 2.2x for the 2x powermate, and 4.5x for the 4x.

The aberrations caused by binoviewer prisms (or any large prism) are spherical aberration errors and false color, both of which will significantly hurt your higher power views. This is corrected however by optics designed to do so like the glasspath correctors, or by simply creating a longer effective focal ratio with a standard amplifier like a powermate/barlow (in slow focal ratio systems the prism aberrations become negligible).

I actually do have a 1-1/4" Everbrite tucked away in my "miscellaneous" box, so I'm good there. Am I correct in reading that additional accessories like glass path correctors can be avoided altogether by increasing the focal ratio with image amplifiers?

 

I guess I won't truly know what will work for me until I have the scope in hand and can start playing around with different equipment combinations, but at least now I have some ideas! waytogo.gif

 

Will also start looking into different potential eyepiece pairs. Two more, if I choose to use the 12mm Brandons, so that I have low, medium, and high powers. Will need to find something that won't degrade the supposedly fine optics of the scope itself while remaining relatively inexpensive.



#7 betacygni

betacygni

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,694
  • Joined: 06 Feb 2011

Posted 30 January 2024 - 11:51 PM

I actually do have a 1-1/4" Everbrite tucked away in my "miscellaneous" box, so I'm good there. Am I correct in reading that additional accessories like glass path correctors can be avoided altogether by increasing the focal ratio with image amplifiers?

I guess I won't truly know what will work for me until I have the scope in hand and can start playing around with different equipment combinations, but at least now I have some ideas! waytogo.gif

Will also start looking into different potential eyepiece pairs. Two more, if I choose to use the 12mm Brandons, so that I have low, medium, and high powers. Will need to find something that won't degrade the supposedly fine optics of the scope itself while remaining relatively inexpensive.

Correct, your 2x powermate for example will make your binoviewers see the scope as f13.4, the prisms should be happy with that. Glasspaths can achieve the same correction for the prisms without as much magnification due to being designed for binoviewers specifically, but the net result other than magnification is the same, both methods get rid of the prism aberrations.

In regards to eyepieces, it’s also generally recommended to stay above about 12mm, merging the image gets much harder at shorter focal lengths. So keeping 12mm as your high power set would make sense, then fill in gaps above. Thankfully binoviewer eyepieces don’t have to be expensive. I’ve found ortho and plossl variants the best for a variety of reasons. Can also get by with fewer pairs if you’re willing to swap out powermates. For example a 25mm plossl variant like the ones I mentioned in prior post have about a 21mm field stop, which would about max out your 22mm binoviewer aperture for max true field of view. If you plugged the 25mm Plossls behind your 4.5x effective powermate, you’d have 5.5mm eyepieces with the comfort of 25mm Plossls eye relief.

Edited by betacygni, 30 January 2024 - 11:53 PM.

  • Astroman007 likes this

#8 Astroman007

Astroman007

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,300
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2017
  • Loc: Latchford, Northern Ontario, Canada

Posted 31 January 2024 - 11:01 AM

Just purchased two 25mm TV Plossls from Agena. That should be a good start.

 

Thanks for all your help bettacygni! bow.gif


  • kroum and betacygni like this

#9 Dave Novoselsky

Dave Novoselsky

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,756
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2008
  • Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago

Posted 31 January 2024 - 11:12 AM

Had a hard time deciding whether to post this in the refractor or binoviewer forum, hopefully this is the place...

 

I have a Baader 95/580 CaF2 Travel Companion on its way to me from Germany (ordered August '23), due to arrive this upcoming Monday via UPS. I also have on hand a Vernonscope binoviewer in its nice wooden box (link https://vernonscope.com/binoviewer/ ) that I purchased a few months ago, originally intending to use it with my Questar before finding it too heavy. The only eyepiece pair I currently have consists of 12mm Vernonscope Brandons, my most used planetary eyepieces in the Q. I don't know much about binoviewing, but I intend to get more into it this year. Which brings me to the main question (or series of questions): would this binoviewer work well with the Travel Companion, reaching focus without additional accessories if I used it with either the pair of eyepieces I have or the pair of Mark IV zooms I am thinking of purchasing soon for it? If not, what accessories would I need? I know vaguely about "glass path correctors" and "needs a barlow to reach focus" when it comes to other binoviewers, but not really what that translates to in my case. Do you think, given my equipment, that a pair of Mark IVs would be the right choice? Anyone used this combination of equipment with this scope, or binoviewed with the 95/580?

 

For reference in case you don't know first hand, the specs: https://www.baader-p...-companion.html

 

Thanks for your replies.

Congratulations on acquiring a truly magnificent telescope.  Please post your impressions once you get it in hand.


  • Astroman007 likes this

#10 denis0007dl

denis0007dl

    Binoviewers Expert

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 3,803
  • Joined: 17 Apr 2012
  • Loc: Umag, Croatia, Europe

Posted 31 January 2024 - 12:14 PM

Congrats for that awsome and rare telescope!

I was looking for it many times!

 

Please share with us some nice pictures of mechanics and optics, as well visual experience.

 

Enjoy in it,

Denis


  • Astroman007 likes this

#11 betacygni

betacygni

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,694
  • Joined: 06 Feb 2011

Posted 31 January 2024 - 10:55 PM

Just purchased two 25mm TV Plossls from Agena. That should be a good start.

Thanks for all your help bettacygni! bow.gif

Very good choice, let us know how it all works out!
  • Astroman007 likes this

#12 Astroman007

Astroman007

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,300
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2017
  • Loc: Latchford, Northern Ontario, Canada

Posted 02 February 2024 - 11:59 AM

From UPS: "The package is in a secure facility pending clearance or resolution."

 

...Since yesterday.

 

gaah.gif



#13 cahanc

cahanc

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 271
  • Joined: 08 Jun 2009
  • Loc: Berkeley, CA

Posted 03 February 2024 - 06:53 PM

This image is from a review of your scope on the Baader website. Looks like it come binoviewer ready. Sounds like an incredible piece of kit, congratulations.

 

https://assets.baade...7cdimg_0082.jpg


  • Astroman007 likes this

#14 Astroman007

Astroman007

    Hubble

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,300
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2017
  • Loc: Latchford, Northern Ontario, Canada

Posted 07 February 2024 - 01:15 PM

Just arrived! The delay was UPS not letting me know on the tracking page that customs fees were due. Had to find out in an email from Baader. All squared away and the scope showed up in good order, double cardboard boxed with lots of packing peanuts and safely "stowed away" (see what I did there?) in its plastic hard case. Sitting it on the dining room table and admiring it in the light coming through the window, I thought...my AP Traveler. Probably the closest I'll ever get, anyhow!

Got the tube rings on and fixed on an Askar Vixen plate (the red plate contrasts nicely with the white, black, and blue). Unfortunately I have to leave for work for a couple days, so the satisfaction of first light will have to be delayed until the weekend. No big loss though, as it's predicted to be cloudy until then.


  • kroum and betacygni like this

#15 rob.0919

rob.0919

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 302
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2007
  • Loc: Derby , UK

Posted 07 February 2024 - 07:00 PM

Please post some photos and impressions Martin when you can, and congratulations on getting one of these rare Baader scopes.

I've been on the Baader list a couple of times now, but had to pull out each time.

It should binoview very nicely when you remove that 60mm extension.


  • Astroman007 likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics