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Are poorly educated YouTube channels as much a hobby killer as a cheap scope?

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#51 Kevin Kretsch

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 04:42 AM

One pitfall of the Youtuber is once they start to do it for a living, not as a hobby.

In order to keep the income, they need to keep up with the amount of videos which can often come at the cost of quality.

This is not true for many of the YouTube channels that I see that make a big chunk of their income from it. Many have heavily invested in equipment, editors, script writers, and learned the art/rules/best practice of making video for youtube (which is not TV or cinema, and requires different production vlaues). For a channel producing original content intended to teach/educate/inform people, quality cannot be sacrificed for long term success. 


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#52 grif 678

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 06:52 AM

Wen you look at their top ten list of the best telescopes, you know right then that they do not have a clue to what they are doing.


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#53 Migwan

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 09:32 AM

Just noticed the title and opening line in the OP says, "poorly educated".    Wonder if that wouldn't be better stated as "inexperienced."   Otherwise and without actually knowing the YTer's background, it comes of as a little pendantic.



#54 Astroman007

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 09:53 AM

Just noticed the title and opening line in the OP says, "poorly educated".    Wonder if that wouldn't be better stated as "inexperienced."   Otherwise and without actually knowing the YTer's background, it comes of as a little pendantic.

Well, "poorly educated," "inexperienced," and (may I add) "ignorant" are all different ways of describing the same thing: a lack of knowledge or insufficient or improper knowledge on a given topic.


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#55 dnrmilspec

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 09:54 AM

Just noticed the title and opening line in the OP says, "poorly educated".    Wonder if that wouldn't be better stated as "inexperienced."   Otherwise and without actually knowing the YTer's background, it comes of as a little pendantic.

I would say greedy and unprincipled.  They know they are posting nonsense solely in the pursuit of clicks, which are a form of currency today.  Unless "we" call them on it in pretty significant numbers by posting comments calling them out for it they will continue and the hobby will suffer.  I wonder how many here actually read the space.com reviews to which I provided the link.  I frankly expected outrage. 


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#56 Astroman007

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 10:12 AM

I would say greedy and unprincipled.  They know they are posting nonsense solely in the pursuit of clicks, which are a form of currency today.  Unless "we" call them on it in pretty significant numbers by posting comments calling them out for it they will continue and the hobby will suffer.  I wonder how many here actually read the space.com reviews to which I provided the link.  I frankly expected outrage. 

Doesn't that say something about the viewers, though? Nonsense gets clicks. Why does factual, intelligent information not get so many clicks? It's almost as though truth is no longer valued.

"What is truth?" ~A brilliant modern philosopher.


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#57 Migwan

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 10:41 AM

Guess I'm having a semantic moment, but educated does refers to having an education.  Ignorant on a subject works for either the educated or the poorly educated.   Uninformed, to be polite.

 

Don't know much about YT's "pay scale", but doubt that astronomy is pulling a lion's share of clicks.    Thinking, probably an attempt at greed.  

 

First time to Space.com.   Like an Amazon link, disguised as reviews.   I didn't happen to see your link to them.


Edited by Migwan, 03 February 2024 - 10:42 AM.


#58 dnrmilspec

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 10:50 AM

Doesn't that say something about the viewers, though? Nonsense gets clicks. Why does factual, intelligent information not get so many clicks? It's almost as though truth is no longer valued.

"What is truth?" ~A brilliant modern philosopher.

Because today it is frighteningly clear that for a great many people, the truth is what they can get other people to believe. 

 

The algorithm gives much greater weight to certain websites over others.  For example, if I would raise a website to combat the nonsense on Space.com it might take years, if ever, for me to appear on the search engines at all.  The gravitas that Space.com has with Google far outweighs mine.  Then we have the added issue of this blatantly wrong content (IMO) appearing alongside content that appears to be fairly well vetted.  As I said to someone the other day, "tell enough truths and you can get away with one really big lie."

 

Further.  The article I linked is under the byline of a prominent scholar it would appear.  Who is going to call her on allowing her name and credibility to be linked to such a clearly deceptive post.  And all in the service of links to their advertisers.  So the question is, "Did this PhD, member of many scholarly societies, allow here name and credentials to be used on deceptive advertising just to make money?"  And if she did, should she be expelled from the societies?  Clearly their credibility is at stake as well. 

 

There are those who say we live in a "post truth" world.  I think this is clear as day.  And the frightening thing is that there seems to be some general acceptance of it.  And we have laws in the US protecting internet providers from even considering something like the truth.  As I understand it they are, by law, not responsible for content.


Edited by dnrmilspec, 03 February 2024 - 11:01 AM.

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#59 12BH7

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 10:55 AM

Tom I learnt that at school and I was well known for solving things from first principles using the mathematical equivalent of a sledgehammer to crack walnut-sized problems.

 

Later in life as an engineer it often put me in the position of being the only one in the office able to come up with an analytical solution to a novel problem - including being able to independently confirm the validity of computer models and simulations. Across the engineering department I'm known for being able to come up with a definitive proof.

 

This is invaluable when the younger generation - raised on computer models etc - cannot tell whether the result they reached is valid.  Get these things wrong and there can be serious consequences - bridges or buildings falling down, power stations, mines, heavy industry, cars, trains and aircraft designs, for example. 

My neighbor is a retired electrical engineer. That is exactly how he described training new EE's.  I refer to them as the App Generation with the motto, "no need to think". 


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#60 Astroman007

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 11:32 AM

My neighbor is a retired electrical engineer. That is exactly how he described training new EE's.  I refer to them as the App Generation with the motto, "no need to think". 

Would be awful if a solar flare took out the communications satellites this year. grin.gif

 

"Hey, it's not working! No likey!" Thumb tap, thumb tap.


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#61 CarolinaBanker

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 12:26 PM

I don’t think it’s likely to be a real hobby killer. The whole phenomenon of “800x” magnification and god awful yoke mounts didn’t dissuade prior observers.
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#62 Phil Cowell

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 05:22 PM

We are in the post truth society.

As for monetizing on YT it’s not going to feed you and your family.

To really grab the base level on YT listen to one of the folks doing game walkthroughs. 
 

Doesn't that say something about the viewers, though? Nonsense gets clicks. Why does factual, intelligent information not get so many clicks? It's almost as though truth is no longer valued.

"What is truth?" ~A brilliant modern philosopher.



#63 Phil Cowell

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 05:38 PM

As a retired EE , who worked at LM and NG the young engineers out there today are as good as ever. They use the tools that fit today’s environment. Have worked many IRAD’s with many young EE’s they think out of the box and bring new ideas. Want to know what is the biggest disaster in today’s engineering industry? MBA non-engineers running engineering projects, just looking to cuts costs. Ask a major aircraft manufacturer how well that’s worked out.
I have though worked with older engineers who were stuck in the past, they sounds just like the no goto, no push to and they have to learn the way they did. Just like our hobby the young are dragging it kicking and screaming into the modern era. 
 

My neighbor is a retired electrical engineer. That is exactly how he described training new EE's.  I refer to them as the App Generation with the motto, "no need to think". 


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#64 kgb

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Posted 05 February 2024 - 12:19 AM

This gives me a good idea for an astronomy YouTube channel. A channel dedicated to just picking apart other astronomy YouTube channels.

Edit: I didn't say that it'd be profitable.

Edited by kgb, 05 February 2024 - 12:20 AM.


#65 TayM57

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Posted 05 February 2024 - 10:02 AM

Cloudy nights are the true hobby killer for this hobby....



#66 MikeHC8

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Posted 11 February 2024 - 11:55 AM

At the beginning of this hobby I tried to find out as much as I could that I had access too, Mags and store displays.  I got 60 mm Wards scope, but didn't know better what to get or how to use it.  I can see going to YT and getting quick lesson to buy a scope, but so much bad information out there it's really hard just to blame YT.  It took a while to learn my lesson, and goto astronomy groups to get my information.  I want to look up and not see someone who has many scopes with many problems, the big thing is how to use this tool.  I feel there is more bad information on social media then what is right on all subjects.  If I find a site that tells me what is wrong with a video that was made on the subject, I can find 10 more what was right.  The bottom line is we all learn from our mistakes.



#67 star acres

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 12:28 AM

Nooooo. YouTube is mostly a friend to astronomy. Solar panels? Nothing but simplicity? YouTubes on solar are an encyclopedia of horror. Astronomy dodged the bullet, and Jake and Simple Optics is a gentlemanly soapbox.

#68 DazeGazer

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 06:08 PM

Videos with really bad information get shared almost as much if not more than videos of good information. "Hey look how bad this video is". Clicks drive the business and people know it. Look at other categories of videos, they like comments good or bad because the more comments drives them further up in the suggestions for others. Controversy pays the bills. Best advice is don't take anyone as an "expert" unless you know enough about something to judge for yourself if they are expert.


Edited by DazeGazer, 13 February 2024 - 06:10 PM.


#69 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 08:48 PM

You can install an extension to restore YouTube dislike button count--I find it helpful.

 

https://chromewebsto...ihgfeippi?pli=1



#70 HagglePig420  Happy Birthday!

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 10:20 AM

I think for the most part, YouTube is a great place to learn. There are definitely some quality YouTube channels that offer excellent information... of course there are bad ones... I have seen videos of "best telescopes for beginners" that post things like Gskyers, power seekers, astromasters etc, but they don't seem to really be astronomy channels...

Just like any information, people need to do research and their due diligence to separate the wheat from the chaff..

All in all though, I think YouTube is an excellent way to learn new things and to pick up some good tips in this hobby.

#71 star acres

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Posted 23 February 2024 - 01:06 PM

I hope poorly educated YouTubes don't kill anything, or I'm in hot water.

#72 northernmike

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Posted 23 February 2024 - 01:32 PM

As in the Topic Title, are poorly educated YouTube channels as much a hobby killer as a cheap scope?  I ask this as I'm seeing a lot of new wannabee's looking to cash in on the popularity of established and informative astronomy YouTubers of late.

 

I've seen some shocking videos recently where the channel host has clearly no idea what they are doing.  In one recent video someone was showing outright dangerous (to health and equipment) practices in their 'mods'.  These new YouTubers obviously and typically have very few subscribers so generally I wouldn't think anything of it, however the comments replying to the videos are from other new astronomers who comment as if to suggest that those videos are educating them or teaching them something important.

 

The early stages of astronomy are those key moments where people either jump all in or put that scope at the back of the cupboard in my experience.  Are YouTubers potentially adding to that hobby killer kill list, like department store kits?

I didn't read all the answers , but what irritates me the most , is somebody , making a review , unpacking with one hand

filming with the other one and HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA of what they're talking about.

The good youtubers to follow (from my pov) is Ed Ting and Jason (small optics)


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#73 otte443

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Posted 23 March 2024 - 05:45 PM

I find there is enough information to get somebody started in something new, or to show more detail for someone trying to do something more complicated.  What kills it for me is poor audio and video.  So being able to hear and understand is an auto skip for me when using you tube.  



#74 PKDfan

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Posted 23 March 2024 - 07:53 PM

Possibly.
I have not read any replies so going in cold i say that Well presented Factual evidence is a hobby Booster.

I love Anton Petrov
Fraser Cain
Scott Manely amongst others i can listen to all day.

Astrum
Veritassium
NASA jpl --endless stuff to reinvigorate the base layer knowledge and as soon as aliens and ufo get too much mentioned i flip away.


Anton should be listened to by all.
All scientific papers discussed no fluff.



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#75 Speedy1985

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Posted 23 March 2024 - 08:04 PM

Poorly educated YouTube'ers and info on any other outlets are a disservice to any hobby. I see in the fish keeping and breeding hobby and the amount of terrible info and advice is rampant. That said, there are plenty of good ones in the same places, but a new person to the hobby may be swayed to the opinion of the one that seems more convincing, even if they are wrong.




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