34 replies to this topic

[Dale Smith]

Wednesday night, during a cloud break here, I decided to search for M48. I've been trying, in a desultory fashion, for a couple of winters and springs now, in both binoculars and with telescopes, but have had no luck. On numerous occasions I would go a bit south of Procyon and sweep eastward toward Hydra. Drop down, sweep back. Nope. No sign of an open cluster many have seen.

 

Gary Seronik in Binocular Hightlights emphasized that when using 10x50s he had to look carefully to pick it out from light pollution. It turns out that even very experienced observers have found M48 a challenge. Stephen James O'Meara talks about being five degrees off from the open cluster more than once. I tried with my 130mm reflector last spring, doing a low power sky sweep, but again, no luck. The same in my 102mm Bresser Messier RFT.

 

 Wednesday evening, I decided to bring out my mounted Pentax 20x60 SP WP. First, I found M41, brilliant at 20x. In comparison, the 10x50 Ultras showed it glimmering faintly against the night sky. The SQM rating that night was in the 18.7-18.8 range, so Bortle 6, more or less. Sweeping with the Ultra had failed to turn up M48.

 

Granted, the Pentax 20x60 has a fairly narrow 2.2 degree FOV, but I've star hopped and sky scanned using telescopes with similar FOVS at low power.

 

So, after viewing M41, I moved the tripod over to the fence on the east side of my back yard so that I can peer to the SE around a fir tree. I first tried using the SkyView app on my iPhone, but no luck. Time to consult SkySafari.

 

The answer was that I was looking in the wrong place, simply searching "too high" above where it was.

 

Apparently I hadn't consulted SkySafari before for M48, because when I did pull it up in the app, it was obvious what my problem was, something I hadn't perceived in the small paper charts in various guides I'd consulted. M48 was much farther south in the sky than I'd realized, near the tail of Monoceros, a faint constellation invisible to the naked eye in my bright suburban sky.

 

 

I drew a mental triangle between M48, Procyon and the Head of the Hydra and pointed the 20x60 where I thought M48 would be, which happened to be just a bit above an outstretched branch of the fir, and began scanning. BINGO. The The cluster was fainter than I expected, but once I rechecked the apparent magnitude in O'Meara's The Messier Objects and saw that it was listed as 5.8, I realized I could easily have missed it here at 10x or less. Magnification matters in light-polluted skies, as many here have noted, along with aperture. The humble Pentax 20x60 SP WP delivered my first views of this enchanting, ghost-like open cluster Wednesday night.

 

After a couple of years, success!

Edited by Dale Smith, 10 February 2024 - 02:03 PM.

[hallelujah]

 

 

I realized I could easily have missed it here at 10x or less. Magnification matters in light-polluted skies, as many here have noted, along with aperture.

 

The humble Pentax 20x60 SP WP delivered my first views of this enchanting, ghost-like open cluster Wednesday night.

 

After a couple of years, success!

 

  Good for you & the Pentax 20x60 Porro binoculars.

 

I still love scanning the heavens with "two eyes" regardless of how narrow the view is.

 

 

 

Stan
 

Edited by hallelujah, 10 February 2024 - 02:57 PM.

[sevenofnine]

Nice report! I remember struggling with M48 too and I was using my Dob. After I consulted "The Year-Round Messier Marathon Field Guide" by H. Pennington, I came to the same conclusion...much further South. Take the straight line distance South between Procyon and Gomeisa roughly 3x and you're in the right area to sweep 

[aznuge]

 

Wednesday night, during a cloud break here, I decided to search for M48. I've been trying, in a desultory fashion, for a couple of winters and springs now, in both binoculars and with telescopes, but have had no luck. On numerous occasions I would go a bit south of Procyon and sweep eastward toward Hydra. Drop down, sweep back. Nope. No sign of an open cluster many have seen.

 

Gary Seronik in Binocular Hightlights emphasized that when using 10x50s he had to look carefully to pick it out from light pollution. It turns out that even very experienced observers have found M48 a challenge. Stephen James O'Meara talks about being five degrees off from the open cluster more than once. I tried with my 130mm reflector last spring, doing a low power sky sweep, but again, no luck. The same in my 102mm Bresser Messier RFT.

 

 Wednesday evening, I decided to bring out my mounted Pentax 20x60 SP WP. First, I found M41, brilliant at 20x. In comparison, the 10x50 Ultras showed it glimmering faintly against the night sky. The SQM rating that night was in the 18.7-18.8 range, so Bortle 6, more or less. Sweeping with the Ultra had failed to turn up M48.

 

Granted, the Pentax 20x60 has a fairly narrow 2.2 degree FOV, but I've star hopped and sky scanned using telescopes with similar FOVS at low power.

 

So, after viewing M41, I moved the tripod over to the fence on the east side of my back yard so that I can peer to the SE around a fir tree. I first tried using the SkyView app on my iPhone, but no luck. Time to consult SkySafari.

 

The answer was that I was looking in the wrong place, simply searching "too high" above where it was.

 

Apparently I hadn't consulted SkySafari before for M48, because when I did pull it up in the app, it was obvious what my problem was, something I hadn't perceived in the small paper charts in various guides I'd consulted. M48 was much farther south in the sky than I'd realized, near the tail of Monoceros, a faint constellation invisible to the naked eye in my bright suburban sky.

 

 

 

I drew a mental triangle between M48, Procyon and the Head of the Hydra and pointed the 20x60 where I thought M48 would be, which happened to be just a bit above an outstretched branch of the fir, and began scanning. BINGO. The The cluster was fainter than I expected, but once I rechecked the apparent magnitude in O'Meara's The Messier Objects and saw that it was listed as 5.8, I realized I could easily have missed it here at 10x or less. Magnification matters in light-polluted skies, as many here have noted, along with aperture. The humble Pentax 20x60 SP WP delivered my first views of this enchanting, ghost-like open cluster Wednesday night.

 

After a couple of years, success!

 

Nothing brings more satisfaction than finally finding a tough celestial object.  Congrats Dale!  After reading your account I couldn't remember the circumstances that I viewed M48, so I went to my logs to see.  It was Oct 17 last year.  But I had the advantage of being at a darker site with SQM-L about 21.4.  I logged it with 44x100 BTs and wrote about a sideways "Y" shape of brighter stars within the cluster.  I also viewed it with a 34x82 BT.

 

Good to compare notes - hat's off to your back yard success with the 20x60! No small feat. 

[PerfectlyFrank]

Congrats on your success. That's what I call the thrill of the hunt. 

[Fiske]

Congratulations, Dale. 

 

I've observed M 48 repeatedly, and figured I would do a quick search on CN and share a report. But nada. And then I did a search in my google docs journal. Again nada. And then dug through my written journals for the last couple of years and did not find a written observation of it. 

 

 

So, now I am going to reobserve the darn thing and write down some notes! 

 

Thanks for this quest! 

[hallelujah]

Congratulations, Dale. 

 

I've observed M 48 repeatedly, and figured I would do a quick search on CN and share a report. But nada. And then I did a search in my google docs journal. Again nada. And then dug through my written journals for the last couple of years and did not find a written observation of it. 

 

 

So, now I am going to reobserve the darn thing and write down some notes! 

 

Thanks for this quest! 

 Fisk,

 

Just to make it fair, you have to start out with a 20x binocular. 

 

Stan

[Fiske]

 Fiske,

 

Just to make it fair, you have to start out with a 20x binocular. 

 

Stan

Easy. 

[hallelujah]

Easy Peesy.....

 

https://www.universe...202/messier-48/

 

Stan

[Dale Smith]

Congratulations, Dale. 

 

I've observed M 48 repeatedly, and figured I would do a quick search on CN and share a report. But nada. And then I did a search in my google docs journal. Again nada. And then dug through my written journals for the last couple of years and did not find a written observation of it. 

 

 

So, now I am going to reobserve the darn thing and write down some notes! 

 

Thanks for this quest! 

Thanks, Fiske! I need to start doing regular observing journals—something I’ve woefully neglected. Looking forward to your report 

[Jon Isaacs]

Good job on finding M48.

 

I find M48 by starting from M46-M47 and working North East until I find the three asterism of 1 Hydrae, C Hydrae and 2 Hydrae.  They're in a line and magnitudes 5.6, 3.9 and 5.6. They are about 16 degrees from M46-M47 and very easy to identify.

 

I then come back towards M46-M47 about 3.5 degrees to spot M48.   I may have to wander a bit to find the 1-C-2 Hydrae but once I find it, then I know where M48 is.

 

Jon

[wrighty338]

Nice one Dale  the struggle of finding things is relatable especially under LP skies. Most recently trying to find M33 Triangulum Galaxy and endlessly sweeping past where you think it is to avail 

 

If we ever get another clear night il make an effort on M48, it should be in a view-able direction from the back yard but a job for the BT no doubt 

 

 

[Tony Flanders]

Like Jon I generally start with the oddly named star C Hydrae, which at magnitude 3.9 is one of the brightest stars widely known by one of Bayer's Roman-letter naming sequence, which he used after exhausting the lower-case Greek letters. (It's also known as 30 Mon; obvious Bayer and Flamsteed disagreed about the precise location of the Hya/Mon border!) C Hydrae is basically twin in brightness to Alpha Mon, and vastly brighter than nearby Zeta Mon. It should be fairly easy to spot naked-eye (possibly with averted vision) in all but the very worst skies.

 

C Hya is flanked by two bright companions, making the star-hop from there to M48 a piece of cake. The 3-star asterism is quite striking -- well worth a look in its own right, quite aside from its value as an M-finder. M48 is a rather loose cluster, so it doesn't stand out very well in small binoculars in heavily light-polluted skies. I logged it from my local city park (SQM around 18.0) through 7x35 binoculars as being a very vague patch of light, barely visible with averted vision.

 

M48 is visible to the unaided eye under halfway dark skies, which obviously makes it much easier to locate in binoculars! I need 10x50 or more to get much in the way of resolution. It's fully resolved through 15x70 binoculars under dark skies.

Edited by Tony Flanders, 11 February 2024 - 05:52 AM.

[Dale Smith]

Good job on finding M48.

 

I find M48 by starting from M46-M47 and working North East until I find the three asterism of 1 Hydrae, C Hydrae and 2 Hydrae.  They're in a line and magnitudes 5.6, 3.9 and 5.6. They are about 16 degrees from M46-M47 and very easy to identify.

 

I then come back towards M46-M47 about 3.5 degrees to spot M48.   I may have to wander a bit to find the 1-C-2 Hydrae but once I find it, then I know where M48 is.

 

Jon

Thanks, Jon! That’s a great approach. Next clear night I will try that.

[Dale Smith]

Nice one Dale  the struggle of finding things is relatable especially under LP skies. Most recently trying to find M33 Triangulum Galaxy and endlessly sweeping past where you think it is to avail 

 

If we ever get another clear night il make an effort on M48, it should be in a view-able direction from the back yard but a job for the BT no doubt 

Thanks, Wrighty. I’ve been there on the endless sweeps for M33   I want to use my BT next time as well.

[Dale Smith]

Like Jon I generally start with the oddly named star C Hydrae, which at magnitude 3.9 is one of the brightest stars widely known by one of Bayer's Roman-letter naming sequence, which he used after exhausting the lower-case Greek letters. (It's also known as 30 Mon; obvious Bayer and Flamsteed disagreed about the precise location of the Hya/Mon border!) C Hydrae is basically twin in brightness to Alpha Mon, and vastly brighter than nearby Zeta Mon. It should be fairly easy to spot naked-eye (possibly with averted vision) in all but the very worst skies.

 

C Hya is flanked by two bright companions, making the star-hop from there to M48 a piece of cake. The 3-star asterism is quite striking -- well worth a look in its own right, quite aside from its value as an M-finder. M48 is a rather loose cluster, so it doesn't stand out very well in small binoculars in heavily light-polluted skies. I logged it from my local city park (SQM around 18.0) through 7x35 binoculars as being a very vague patch of light, barely visible with averted vision.

 

M48 is visible to the unaided eye under halfway dark skies, which obviously makes it much easier to locate in binoculars! I need 10x50 or more to get much in the way of resolution. It's fully resolved through 15x70 binoculars under dark skies.

Thanks, Tony! This is helpful and fascinating information. I’ll have to try looking for it in my 7x35s and even 6.5x32s, now that I know where to look. I’ll be going to a writer’s retreat at a Bortle 2 location in a couple of weeks and will definitely bring my 15x70s there to see if I can full resolve it in those dark skies.

[Jon Isaacs]

Thanks, Wrighty. I’ve been there on the endless sweeps for M33   I want to use my BT next time as well.

 

M33 has a low surface brightness.  Under darker skies where the Milky Way is easily seen, M33 is also easily seen in hand held binoculars.  

 

Otherwise, it is near impossible.  

 

Jon

[JoeFaz]

Congrats on finally finding M48 Dale, I trust it was worth the wait!

 

I've recently observed M48 as well --- in 20x80s and my 6" dob. I found it more appealing in 20x80s, but very nice in my telescope as well. I see it as a very distinct heart-shape that isn't terribly apparent in photos or through my telescope (where it appears as more of a "detached figure-8" according to my notes and recollection). It was wonderful in 20x80s.

 

I found it with my binocular using the triangle of stars Zeta, 27, and 28 Monocerotis. This triangle is in a nearly straight line from Gomeisa through Procyon, approximately twice the distance from Procyon as Gomeisa is the other direction. Continue SE a couple degrees and there's M48!

 

In my telescope I'm able to just make it out in my 8x50 finder, so no star-hop needed.

[Fiske]

My locating approach is similar to Jon's -- based on 1C2 Hydrae, only I start at the head of Hydra, a pentagram of 5 stars easily seen in urban skies, then from there to 1C2, which forms a triangle with M 48 and Zeta Monocerotis.

Edited by Fiske, 11 February 2024 - 04:07 PM.

[Fiske]

M33 has a low surface brightness.  Under darker skies where the Milky Way is easily seen, M33 is also easily seen in hand held binoculars.  

 

Otherwise, it is near impossible.  

 

Jon

 

I have tried many a time to spot M 33 from my urban yard. As Jon says, easy from a darker site with hand held 10x binoculars. 

 

I finally glimpsed it from my yard on 18 November 2023 with the 120XL with the 20 XW eyepieces (33.5x), reported in this Cloudy Nights post. I could just detect a a bit of the core in averted vision, faint but definite.

[aznuge]

 

I have tried many a time to spot M 33 from my urban yard. As Jon says, easy from a darker site with hand held 10x binoculars. 

 

I finally glimpsed it from my yard on 18 November 2023 with the 120XL with the 20 XW eyepieces (33.5x), reported in this Cloudy Nights post. I could just detect a a bit of the core in averted vision, faint but definite.

Just chiming in on M33: My first glimpse of it was from a darker site Oct 16 last year with, among others, 44x100 BTs.  Had a lot of frustrating attempts from my back yard leading up to this fulfilling success.  Seems to be the theme of this thread.

 

From my log - First time ever to observe this object.  Every attempt under suburban skies has failed.  But these darker skies (21.3 SQM) made easy confirmation of the  faint, diffuse spiral galaxy. Also viewed with other, lower power instruments.  Averted vision captured the brighter central area.  A triangle of locator stars seemed to just span this object - HD 9483, HD 9687 and HD 9269.

 

Also posted about this observing session here.

[Jon Isaacs]

Just chiming in on M33: My first glimpse of it was from a darker site Oct 16 last year with, among others, 44x100 BTs.  Had a lot of frustrating attempts from my back yard leading up to this fulfilling success.  Seems to be the theme of this thread.

 

From my log - First time ever to observe this object.  Every attempt under suburban skies has failed.  But these darker skies (21.3 SQM) made easy confirmation of the  faint, diffuse spiral galaxy. Also viewed with other, lower power instruments.  Averted vision captured the brighter central area.  A triangle of locator stars seemed to just span this object - HD 9483, HD 9687 and HD 9269.

 

Also posted about this observing session here.

 

Under darker skies, M33 is quite nice.

 

In larger aperture instruments, M33 is quite interesting.  It's spiral structure with "knots and twists" is visible and there are several bright nebulae in M33 that can be seen as well. 

 

Last night I had a 90mm refractor out in my urban backyard.  I measured the sky at 18.40mpsas, definitely bright.  I was able to see M48 quite nicely but I don't think I could have seen it in my 10x50s.  

 

Jon

[Fiske]

Under darker skies, M33 is quite nice.

 

In larger aperture instruments, M33 is quite interesting.  It's spiral structure with "knots and twists" is visible and there are several bright nebulae in M33 that can be seen as well. 

 

Last night I had a 90mm refractor out in my urban backyard.  I measured the sky at 18.40mpsas, definitely bright.  I was able to see M48 quite nicely but I don't think I could have seen it in my 10x50s.  

 

Jon

My better skies are about 18.20, Jon. 

[Jon Isaacs]

My better skies are about 18.20, Jon. 

 

After a week of rain, the  my San DIego backyard skies have been clear and transparent.  Last night, I measured about 18.4 mpsas at 8pm, 21.69 mpsas around 2 am both definely red zone. 

 

My better skies measure darker than 21 mpsas and M33 is pretty easy though not naked eye.

 

Jon 

[Erik Bakker]

For my Zeiss 8x25, I considered M33 a test for sky quality.

 

In my 42-70mm binoculars, I can see M33 on any decent night. I find the northern companion to M31, M110, more of challenge, though on a good night it is easy in my backyard with these 42-70mm instruments. The bigger the aperture and the higher the magnification, the easier it gets.