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SkyWatcher 150p Virtuoso GTI + QHY5III585C v2 = EAA?

EAA Dob Astrophotography
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#1 RodAmbar

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 12:56 PM

Hi everyone!


First post but avid reader of the forums, the wealth of knowledge here is truly amazing.
I’ve been using the Sky-Watcher 150P Virtuoso GTI as my first telescope for over a year now doing mostly visual, but I played around a little with my now ancient Canon T2i. Good fun but my mount can’t handle the weight (650g) when it’s hanging off the side. Crazy off balance no matter how carefully I try the balance it. I fear I might be doing the mount some harm in the process as well, specifically the Altitude axis. 


So I decided to dive into buying a camera and needed some assistance picking a good option.


The Objective:


I want to do EAA. I just want to see more stuff through my bortle 5 sky!
I managed to get SharpCap working with the t2i and respective ascom driver to test drive. Great fun but unsustainable as a setup.

 

Which camera? Limiting factors:


I would not like to spend more than 600 dollars. 
I don’t have a lot of money to swing at my hobby and the next opportunity to buy another camera would probably be a couple of years down the road, so I think I’m looking for a jack of all trades, master of none. I little planetary for fun, a little DSOs for fun.. Something that I can grow with for a while.


 

Options I’ve researched:

I’ve looked into the imx 294s, 183s, 533s and 585, all uncooled to stay inside my budget. I think I’m narrowing down my search between the 533s and the 585s.

 

I’m leaning towards getting the QHY5III585C v2. I'm thinking the form factor (ZWO mini style) will help with maintaining my virtuoso scope properly extended and the light weight is another plus for the balancing. The relatively larger sensor, for this form factor style, is another plus. Would a planetary ZWO style work just as well?
The smaller price tag is a huge plus.. and leaves room in my budget to get some filters possibly?


Does anybody know of an IMX533 camera with this style of uncooled camera?
Am I gonna miss the extra field really bad? Would cheap reducer fix this?

Should I really be looking at another cooled camera? Am I overlooking anything?

Anybody have experience with the QHY5III585C v2 and EAA that they care to share?

As I understand, some imx585s have a HDR mode with wide dynamic range. Does anybody know if the QHY5III585C v2 shares this function?

Many questions and 
many many thanks to all responses!

Links:
https://www.qhyccd.com/qhy5iii585c/
http://skywatcher.co...50-vituoso-gti/
 


Edited by RodAmbar, 12 February 2024 - 01:25 PM.


#2 downerczx

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 03:17 PM

I'm currently in the same boat debating the ASI585MC vs ASI294MC and all of the respective clones. It seems like ASI has a compatibility advantage over everything else, but I like the Player One form factors. The weight on this one is certainly impressive at 90g.


Edited by downerczx, 12 February 2024 - 03:30 PM.


#3 downerczx

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 05:09 PM

Worth noting you have to have an adapter for 1.25". I wonder if you can still use a focal reducer with it.



#4 Jonathan Shields

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 07:06 PM

I have a ZWO 585 and a virtuoso and you just shorten the tube by a couple of centimetres to get rough focus. Mark it with some tape and its easier next time. With a focal reducer you need to shorten a bit more.
With a barlow you can use full extension.

I like the price of the 585 and it does ok for small and medium dsos but for the big nebulae the fov isnt big enough. I can live with that personally. Its also a great planetary camera.

Edited by Jonathan Shields, 12 February 2024 - 07:07 PM.


#5 whiskeyzebra11

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 10:50 AM

I have a ZWO 585 and a virtuoso and you just shorten the tube by a couple of centimetres to get rough focus. Mark it with some tape and its easier next time. With a focal reducer you need to shorten a bit more.
With a barlow you can use full extension.

I like the price of the 585 and it does ok for small and medium dsos but for the big nebulae the fov isnt big enough. I can live with that personally. It’s also a great planetary camera.

Jonathan, you mentioned using a Barlow. Mind sharing the power (2x,3x)? I’ve read that the focal ratio of the virtuoso might be best suited for higher power Barlows but was hoping to hear from someone with real world experience. Any issues with the length/weight of the Barlow and camera for the stock focuser? I’m in the same boat as OP getting ready to buy a camera and was curious if the Barlow worked well for planetary and lunar with this scope. 



#6 Markovich

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 07:31 PM

Im a year into starting EAA and have a SW130PDS ( as well as an AstroTech 72EDII) and I use both 294MC Pro and 585MC cameras.

The 294MC is great for wider fields, but if you go beyond 10-30 sec exposures you'll definitely need to use darks to deal with the noise.

The 585MC is narrower but has less noise and is my main camera for smaller DSOs'



#7 downerczx

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Posted 15 February 2024 - 10:30 AM

So help me out here... if I use a 585 (Uranus-C) with a .33x focal reducer, can I take big DSO pictures? Or, is there some limitation or tradeoff?

 

This calculator seems to show that you can fit Andromeda just fine with the focal reducer.

 

https://astronomy.to...|1|0&messier=31

 

Edit: It seems noone makes a .33 focal reducer, but a .5 almost fits it:

 

https://astronomy.to...|1|0&messier=31


Edited by downerczx, 15 February 2024 - 10:37 AM.


#8 alphatripleplus

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Posted 15 February 2024 - 11:07 AM

So help me out here... if I use a 585 (Uranus-C) with a .33x focal reducer, can I take big DSO pictures? Or, is there some limitation or tradeoff?

 

 

There is indeed a trade-off using additional focal reduction: With a f/5 Newtonian, significant focal reduction - such as your are looking for-  and an IMX585 size sensor, you will most likely see significant aberrations (such as coma) off axis, i.e. away from the centre of the FOV. The more reduction you use, the worse the aberrations will be, and they increase towards the edge of the FOV. 


Edited by alphatripleplus, 15 February 2024 - 11:39 AM.

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#9 downerczx

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Posted 16 February 2024 - 11:25 PM

Well I ordered this camera today. I’ll let you know how it goes with my 150p!

#10 RodAmbar

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Posted 19 February 2024 - 10:44 AM

Hey everybody! Thanks for sharing your comments.

 

I have a ZWO 585 and a virtuoso and you just shorten the tube by a couple of centimetres to get rough focus. Mark it with some tape and its easier next time. With a focal reducer you need to shorten a bit more.
With a barlow you can use full extension.

I like the price of the 585 and it does ok for small and medium dsos but for the big nebulae the fov isnt big enough. I can live with that personally. Its also a great planetary camera.

Nice to know! I also don't mind not being able to fit the biggest DSOs onto the frame. Especially if this means I have a nice camera for planetary in the same package. That's why I've felt so attracted to the 585 sensor size and specs. It seams to fit the "all rounder" idea I was going for. Any thoughts on why you chose the ZWO model specifically? I was hoping the QHY585's design would keep my trusses extended for the most part but I fear this could come at the expense of more heat and thermal noise. Haven't found any information on thermals about this camera which is annoying. 

 

 

Well I ordered this camera today. I’ll let you know how it goes with my 150p!

Hi downerczx! I really liked the Uranus-C packaging of the 585 with the passive heat sink. I almost pulled the trigger on it but I can't seem to find a vendor in the US that carries the camera. Agena Astro doesn't seem to work with Player One anymore and Highpoint doesn't carry them. Did you buy directly from Player One?
I live in Brazil.. This complicates things a bit for me, importing is painfully expensive (rule of thumb is add the camera price and shipping, then double that for the final price). I have a friend who is going to the US next month and wants to bring me the camera as a gift. But that also means I need to deliver the camera to him in a very precise window of opportunity. I fear shipping from china will be a nail biting experience with good chances of failure. 
If you could share your purchase experience that would be helpful! 

I just wish YouTube could have more video-comparisons between camera makers!
Like a runoff. 585 sensor, ZWO planetary, QHY5IIIv2, Player One Uranus-C.. Or a Cooled versions with more manufacturers.
I feel like the image results might not differ too much, but the quality of life options and details might make a huge diference. Drivers, setups, heat dissipation design, connection stability. Cable comes out at a right angle/cable comes out straight from the back? Quality of included accessories.. etc.


Edited by RodAmbar, 19 February 2024 - 01:27 PM.


#11 alphatripleplus

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Posted 19 February 2024 - 05:46 PM

 

 

 

Hi downerczx! I really liked the Uranus-C packaging of the 585 with the passive heat sink. I almost pulled the trigger on it but I can't seem to find a vendor in the US that carries the camera. Agena Astro doesn't seem to work with Player One anymore and Highpoint doesn't carry them. Did you buy directly from Player One?
 

Player One currently has two US dealers, I believe - one in California and one in New York.


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#12 downerczx

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 03:30 PM

To clarify, I ordered the QHY 585 one, not the Player One. Still waiting for it to ship. I decided I liked the low weight of the QHY better. I had the Player One in my comparison because it existed in the database for a comparable camera.

I also contacted Player One to find the weight of the cooled version of Uranus. The regular camera is 160g and the cooler attachment is an extra 60g.

Skywatcher tech support recommended the lightest camera possible.

Also I purchased from High Point Scientific on Friday, still waiting for it to ship.

Edited by downerczx, 20 February 2024 - 03:50 PM.


#13 RodAmbar

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Posted 22 February 2024 - 05:13 PM

Player One currently has two US dealers, I believe - one in California and one in New York.

Thanks Alpha! Will check them out!
 

To clarify, I ordered the QHY 585 one, not the Player One. Still waiting for it to ship. I decided I liked the low weight of the QHY better. I had the Player One in my comparison because it existed in the database for a comparable camera.

I also contacted Player One to find the weight of the cooled version of Uranus. The regular camera is 160g and the cooler attachment is an extra 60g.

Skywatcher tech support recommended the lightest camera possible.

Also I purchased from High Point Scientific on Friday, still waiting for it to ship.

Oh! I see! That's cool!
Do keep us posted on your adventures. I will quite possibly get an identical setup, probably pulling the trigger in a weeks or so!


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#14 Jonathan Shields

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Posted 25 February 2024 - 05:40 AM

Jonathan, you mentioned using a Barlow. Mind sharing the power (2x,3x)? I’ve read that the focal ratio of the virtuoso might be best suited for higher power Barlows but was hoping to hear from someone with real world experience. Any issues with the length/weight of the Barlow and camera for the stock focuser? I’m in the same boat as OP getting ready to buy a camera and was curious if the Barlow worked well for planetary and lunar with this scope.


I have used a 2x barlow with no issues for planets and also for planetary nebula.

#15 Jonathan Shields

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Posted 25 February 2024 - 05:44 AM

Hey everybody! Thanks for sharing your comments.

 

Nice to know! I also don't mind not being able to fit the biggest DSOs onto the frame. Especially if this means I have a nice camera for planetary in the same package. That's why I've felt so attracted to the 585 sensor size and specs. It seams to fit the "all rounder" idea I was going for. Any thoughts on why you chose the ZWO model specifically? I was hoping the QHY585's design would keep my trusses extended for the most part but I fear this could come at the expense of more heat and thermal noise. Haven't found any information on thermals about this camera which is annoying. 

 

 

Hi downerczx! I really liked the Uranus-C packaging of the 585 with the passive heat sink. I almost pulled the trigger on it but I can't seem to find a vendor in the US that carries the camera. Agena Astro doesn't seem to work with Player One anymore and Highpoint doesn't carry them. Did you buy directly from Player One?
I live in Brazil.. This complicates things a bit for me, importing is painfully expensive (rule of thumb is add the camera price and shipping, then double that for the final price). I have a friend who is going to the US next month and wants to bring me the camera as a gift. But that also means I need to deliver the camera to him in a very precise window of opportunity. I fear shipping from china will be a nail biting experience with good chances of failure. 
If you could share your purchase experience that would be helpful! 

I just wish YouTube could have more video-comparisons between camera makers!
Like a runoff. 585 sensor, ZWO planetary, QHY5IIIv2, Player One Uranus-C.. Or a Cooled versions with more manufacturers.
I feel like the image results might not differ too much, but the quality of life options and details might make a huge diference. Drivers, setups, heat dissipation design, connection stability. Cable comes out at a right angle/cable comes out straight from the back? Quality of included accessories.. etc.

 In the UK the ZWO brand is widely stocked by the main astrophotography suppliers and theres a lot of people on Youtube etc using them. As it was my first camera that was the only reason for choosing ZWO really. I am sure there are other brands using the same sensors that are worth considering too.




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