44 replies to this topic

[MeridianStarGazer]

https://darksitefind...#4/39.00/-98.00

[lhutton]

That's a seriously low standard! The Milky Way is naked-eye visible in the Boston suburbs, right outside Rt. 128.

 

Cape Cod actually does have some fairly dark areas. The problem is that to get anywhere darker, you have to start by driving through places that are much brighter. Much the same issue as the eastern end of Long Island.

 

The North Country -- paper-tree country, from northern New York through Maine -- is pretty dark. Obviously the darker the spot is, the farther you're going to be from shopping and a hospital.

 

Western NY and PA also have some reasonably dark areas, as does the spine of the Appalachians for most of its (considerable) length.

 

The southern part of the Appalachians is getting more lit up, especially in the last five or years. Lots of retirement money being parked here and tourism causing growth. Specifically from NC down to GA. I'm not too far from Grayson Co VA which still has some impressively dark skies IMO. But my home in rural NW NC I've watched creep up from a fairly solid 3 about 10 years ago to more like a mid 4 now. A lot of well lit gated communities buying up old farm land just since the pandemic. The northern part of the range still seems to be less populated and therefore darker.
 

Edited by lhutton, 03 May 2024 - 03:29 PM.

[AngeloM]

Wheeling, West Virginia 

[MeridianStarGazer]

80% of the country lives east of the Mississippi. The east coast is even more populated, with NYC having 10% of the country in just one city.

[MeridianStarGazer]

Just wherever you dive for your star party, remember to bring a chain saw. Most dark areas out east are likely covered in trees.

J/k

But if anyone brings their flash lights, you can chase them away with the chain saw.

Edited by MeridianStarGazer, 03 May 2024 - 10:16 PM.

[George N]

80% of the country lives east of the Mississippi. The east coast is even more populated, with NYC having 10% of the country in just one city.

But there *is* decent dark sky within 3 to 6 hour drive out of NYC.

 

Here's a "Canon Ra on a tripod shot - 24mm lens" taken the night before the solar eclipse - from a motel in Tupper Lake, NY - Adirondacks - on their beach on the lake. This is in town, so trees are lit up by a streetlight - the red patch is from my head lamp - still pretty dark - and much darker down the lake. I was standing in 6 to 8 inches of slushie snow (2 feet Nor'easter two days before) - and it was below freezing.

 

That lit up 'patch' on the lake is strange - single dirt road causeway out to home (several buildings) on a little island - lit in the photo by a single 'streetlight' - no lights on in the buildings.

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[George N]

Same view of Tupper Lake, NY sky - taken in town! evening of April 7th, 2024 (night before the solar eclipse).

 

Some IDs added..... 

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Edited by George N, 04 May 2024 - 10:56 AM.

[CarolinaBanker]

80% of the country lives east of the Mississippi. The east coast is even more populated, with NYC having 10% of the country in just one city.

NYC is nowhere near 10%, it’s approximately 8.8 million, 19.6 million in the metro out of 336 million in the country.

 

https://www.nyc.gov/...population.page

https://fred.stlouis...g/series/NYTPOP

https://www.census.gov/popclock/

[Blacksmith]

Some areas of the Appalachian mountains are still very dark. 

[vsteblina]

I am looking at a few places that are close to a national forest. B4 looking towards B2-3. And still less than 20 minutes to most things, and 45 minutes to Costco. 

There is the problem.

 

As soon as Costco showed up in our small town, it almost shut down since nobody shopped there for a few years.

 

BUT all the urban refugees from Seattle noticed and started moving into town.  Our population has tripled in the past 30 years and everybody that moved here talks about how great and uncrowded our Costco store is even today.  BUT for some reason that was on the top of their priority list.

 

Why do you need a Costco if you have Amazon and Wal-Mart on line???

 

Urban shopping and dark skies are not a match.
 

[Jon Isaacs]

There is the problem.

 

As soon as Costco showed up in our small town, it almost shut down since nobody shopped there for a few years.

 

BUT all the urban refugees from Seattle noticed and started moving into town.  Our population has tripled in the past 30 years and everybody that moved here talks about how great and uncrowded our Costco store is even today.  BUT for some reason that was on the top of their priority list.

 

Why do you need a Costco if you have Amazon and Wal-Mart on line???

 

Urban shopping and dark skies are not a match.
 

 

I have to believe the folks at Costco identified a potential new market where people were moving and would be moving and built a store there.

 

Jon

[vsteblina]

I have to believe the folks at Costco identified a potential new market where people were moving and would be moving and built a store there.

 

Jon

When I moved to Wenatchee the ONLY chain store (other than fast food) was K-Mart.

 

The magic number is 50,000 people.  Once the trading area crosses 50,000 population the entire slew of national stores shows up. 

 

Traveling around the west....it still is the magic number for urban shopping.

 

The town went from local small business owners to corporate stores and nothing got better!!! 

 

The census has a listing of micro-metropolitan areas.  Those are probably the best trade-off's between urban amenities and dark skies.

 

https://www.census.g...ical-areas.html

 

If you want to avoid corporate stores stick to towns under 50,000 in the table.  If you want a Costco, and those types pick a population over 50,000 they will be coming!!!

 

I believe the total number of micro-metropolitan areas is in the neighborhood of 500-600 cities.

 

Somebody with a database background can probably link a light pollution database with the census data and have a "fairly" consistent basis for comparison between different cities.
 

Edited by vsteblina, 23 May 2024 - 01:53 PM.

[Jon Isaacs]

Personally, I consider Walmart a better indicator than Costco.  I never shop at Costco and they're stock is limited.  Walmarts carry cloth and sewing supplies, etc, etc..

 

Towns like Silver City, NM and Show Low with 10,000 people have Walmarts.  

 

The people bring the stores.. 

 

Jon

[Starman47]

45 minutes to a Costco can still be a dark bottle 4 area. But as I said above, I am off to a dark bottle 4 area of France, and there are two university hospitals within 30 minutes on either side of me. 

Edited by Starman47, 24 May 2024 - 04:59 PM.

[CarolinaBanker]

Some areas of the Appalachian mountains are still very dark.

But I wonder if they’ll stay that way, Western NC and GA have been “found” by half-backs, those that move from the Northeast to Florida and then come halfway back. They’ve got a lot brighter, more populated and expensive in the last decade or so. West Virginia, parts of Western VA seem less impacted but who knows for how long.

[vsteblina]

Personally, I consider Walmart a better indicator than Costco.  I never shop at Costco and they're stock is limited.  Walmarts carry cloth and sewing supplies, etc, etc..

 

Towns like Silver City, NM and Show Low with 10,000 people have Walmarts.  

 

The people bring the stores.. 

 

Jon

I don't understand your comment...see bolded above.

 

My point was that Costco and other national stores look for a minimum population of 50,000.  Costco in particular, looks for upper middle class population as that is their primary clientele.  If neighbors with that lifestyle is important to someone then using Costco as a guide to communities they want to consider works real well.

 

Wal-Mart, obviously doesn't have a upper middle class focus, but does serve much smaller towns.  I have a home in a small town in Arizona.  It has one small Safeway grocery store and a super Wal-Mart!!!  Not a fan of Wal-Mart and their impact on small towns.  But these days having a Super Wal-Mart in a town of 5,000 is handy.

 

I personally miss the days prior to the corporate stores showed up in small towns and cities.

 

A community of 5,000 has much darker skies than a community of 75,000.   Really for a community of 5,000 you pretty much have dark skies inside the city limits.

 

When I worked for the Forest Service I did reports on the economic impacts on the communities next to Forest Service managed lands.  It is amazing how alike urban areas are and how diverse from a economic point of view rural areas are across the US. 

 

I always told folks that wanted to move to rural areas to chose carefully and pay attention to your future neighbors.  They are your support system, not the local government.
 

Edited by vsteblina, 24 May 2024 - 11:36 AM.

[Blacksmith]

But I wonder if they’ll stay that way, Western NC and GA have been “found” by half-backs, those that move from the Northeast to Florida and then come halfway back. They’ve got a lot brighter, more populated and expensive in the last decade or so. West Virginia, parts of Western VA seem less impacted but who knows for how long.

thats a good question, parts of Eastern, Ky are still dark but not like they were.. When I was young it was basically bortle 1/2.. I grew up miles from a person, 10 miles from the nearest town that had like 3 street lights.. More than 80 miles from a city of any size at all and it was not big by any standards... Now lights are almost everywhere but we still have parts of the Daniel Boone National forest that will stay pretty dark.. Some sections near me are bortle 3(my property is a real good bortle 4, close to 3) because they are just too rugged to build on with no roads of any kind. At least for now..

[Dave Mitsky]

The area surrounding Spruce Knob in West Virginia has some rather dark skies.

https://www.cleardar...ml?Mn=photoshop

[Greyfox_MT]

The area surrounding Spruce Knob in West Virginia has some rather dark skies.

https://www.cleardar...ml?Mn=photoshop

I'm over near Lexington and getting ready to head that way looking for dark skies.  I've several candidate areas i want to look at.

[jupiter122]

That's a seriously low standard! The Milky Way is naked-eye visible in the Boston suburbs, right outside Rt. 128.

 

Cape Cod actually does have some fairly dark areas. The problem is that to get anywhere darker, you have to start by driving through places that are much brighter. Much the same issue as the eastern end of Long Island.

 

The North Country -- paper-tree country, from northern New York through Maine -- is pretty dark. Obviously the darker the spot is, the farther you're going to be from shopping and a hospital.

 

Western NY and PA also have some reasonably dark areas, as does the spine of the Appalachians for most of its (considerable) length.

I live in Sudbury between 128 and 495 and would love to know where the Milky Wy is still visible in this area. Haven’t seen it in almost 10 years.