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Is the ASKAR 120 a 4" TAK killer?

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#1 ris242

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 05:27 PM

If you were to ignore the fact that the TAK 4" doublets, weigh very little, is there any reason why the ASKAR 120 wouldn't beat out all the 4" TAKs?

 

for instance my TSA 102 has a bigger tube diameter and is very similar in weight, so there isn't a lot between them.

The ASKAR should be just as easy to take outside with the tube shortened for bino'ing.

 

why the orange? I don't know..........but it seems like a good scope visually - and good bang for your buck.

 

 

Where I am, the ASKAR is 3 times cheaper than a TSA 120.......so I don't think I'm going to be buying that TAK any time soon.


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#2 coopman

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 05:36 PM

Well get you one then, and see how you like it.  3X the cost is a very good reason to go the route that you're leaning towards.  Let us know how you like it.  



#3 scout

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 05:45 PM

I wouldn't think it would be better than the great SVX127D f/8 you already own.


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#4 Lookitup

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 05:56 PM

Ignoring the weight my Tak 100DF shows stars a little tighter and is the sharpest scope I have had. 20mm or in my case 25mm (SM ED125) increase in aperture makes a difference on all targets IMHO. In northern climates cooling is an issue which is why I prefer doublets over triplets for visual. CS Pete


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#5 Lizardman

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 06:16 PM

No
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#6 Dave Novoselsky

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 06:36 PM

I wouldn't think it would be better than the great SVX127D f/8 you already own.

I agree, and I have the same Stellarvue 5” doublet that isn’t going to be knocked out of the box by the Akai.  But if you just want to add another 5” that is a less expensive, lightweight, performance checked to make sure you don’t get a dud and doesn’t have garish color? Buy the AT 125 EDL. Or  if you want something non traditional looking, Pete is right about the SM 125, CF is cool without looking like a creamsicle.  And if you no longer want your TSA 102 I’ll buy it.  Drop me a pm


Edited by Dave Novoselsky, 12 February 2024 - 06:52 PM.

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#7 Jethro7

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 07:13 PM

Hello ris242,

I doubt it. My Tak TSA 120 puts up such sharp and splended views. Stars are noticabley focused tighter than any of my other refractors and this attribute allows me to run up the magnification much higher. Just the optics the Taks have, cost more to manufacture than the entire value of most other refractors.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


Edited by Jethro7, 12 February 2024 - 07:14 PM.


#8 Jim Waters

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 07:30 PM

I wouldn't think it would be better than the great SVX127D f/8 you already own.

+1...


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#9 ris242

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 09:01 PM

Yes I have a 127........but it is considerably bigger and always sits on the tripier and the EQ6.

 

the 4" can easily be grab and go..........and sit on a fluid head.

I'm thinking the ASKAR is more in the realm of the 4" scopes than the larger 5" - AT125EDL........that require bigger mounts.



#10 Dave Novoselsky

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 09:30 PM

Yes I have a 127........but it is considerably bigger and always sits on the tripier and the EQ6.

 

the 4" can easily be grab and go..........and sit on a fluid head.

I'm thinking the ASKAR is more in the realm of the 4" scopes than the larger 5" - AT125EDL........that require bigger mounts.

The SM 125 rides just fine on my MC2, but so does my SV127 so I’m not sure what you think the Askar, given its weight per their website, is going to ride on is going to be appreciatively lighter.  I have the MC 2 with a column sitting on a ZWO carbon tripod and the whole assembly is easy to haul out and mount either of my 5” on.  Again, so looking at the Askar stats I don’t see where it is going to be that much lighter but what kind of mount rig were you thinking of using that is going to be a grab and go and will support a 5”?
 

 I did have a real 5” grab and go in my first trip in this hobby, a Borg 125ED on a Borg Altaz travel mount.  The whole thing was light as a feather but the optics were only so so and the rig sacrificed a lot in rigidity to propitiate the weight Gods.  Didn’t keep it long.  The newer Borg FL series in visual configuration are different animals entirely, and have excellent optics and great fit and finish, but the BORG 125 FL announced this last summer isn’t available yet and, if priced like other Borg FLs isn’t going to be cheap but if you want the lightest 5” APO that’s going to be your answer.  


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#11 Oldfracguy

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 09:57 PM

Aside from showing no color fringing at all at over 300x, it would probably lose out to the Tak on the finest details on the Moon and the planets under exceptional seeing conditions, but for seeing more stars in clusters and better views of extended DSO targets, it would win:

 

101_2769.JPG

 

As shown in the photo with accessories for visual observation, the scope weighs in at 7.9 kg (17.4 lbs.).


Edited by Oldfracguy, 12 February 2024 - 09:57 PM.

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#12 betacygni

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Posted 12 February 2024 - 11:37 PM

There are definitely better values than Taks. Better scopes? Not so much. So many good scope options these days at all price points, scopes never need to be Taks to be enjoyed. I got a kick out of my little AT60ED tonight (that costs less than some eyepieces).

(And for the record the TSA-120 is binoviewer friendly too like the Askar, even though Tak doesn’t advertise it as such)

Edited by betacygni, 12 February 2024 - 11:41 PM.

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#13 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 08:29 AM

If you were to ignore the fact that the TAK 4" doublets, weigh very little, is there any reason why the ASKAR 120 wouldn't beat out all the 4" TAKs?

 

for instance my TSA 102 has a bigger tube diameter and is very similar in weight, so there isn't a lot between them.

The ASKAR should be just as easy to take outside with the tube shortened for bino'ing.

 

why the orange? I don't know..........but it seems like a good scope visually - and good bang for your buck.

 

 

Where I am, the ASKAR is 3 times cheaper than a TSA 120.......so I don't think I'm going to be buying that TAK any time soon.

 

 

Unfortunately when others YouTube Askar telescopes, all they will see are end-users who put cameras in them. They're a dime a dozen, so you really are not going to get much of a true understanding of what's really going on. 


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#14 dweller25

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 11:20 AM

I mulled over the Askar 120 v Takahashi 120 to add to my FC100-DZ for a long time.

 

Someday hopefully someone will do a side by side shootout of the Askar and Takahashi, but life is short and I did not want to wait, so I went with the TSA120  waytogo.gif


Edited by dweller25, 13 February 2024 - 01:33 PM.

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#15 ris242

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 02:24 PM

Unfortunately when others YouTube Askar telescopes, all they will see are end-users who put cameras in them. They're a dime a dozen, so you really are not going to get much of a true understanding of what's really going on. 

 

Hence the reason I came here and got a decent photo with an eyepiece attached from Oldfracguy  waytogo.gif

 

It might end up being a no brainer.............as sky conditions are never 100% perfect here.

The ASKAR is a better deal than buying a new 120 Evostar.

 


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#16 N-1

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 03:21 PM

Yes I have a 127........but it is considerably bigger and always sits on the tripier and the EQ6.

 

the 4" can easily be grab and go..........and sit on a fluid head.

I'm thinking the ASKAR is more in the realm of the 4" scopes than the larger 5" - AT125EDL........that require bigger mounts.

Likewise, some of the more recent 4" Takahashi offerings would pass for 3-inchers with respect to weight & bulk. They have some of the best 'aperture-to-heft' ratios I've seen at that level of capability.


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#17 25585

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 04:58 PM

If you were to ignore the fact that the TAK 4" doublets, weigh very little, is there any reason why the ASKAR 120 wouldn't beat out all the 4" TAKs?

 

for instance my TSA 102 has a bigger tube diameter and is very similar in weight, so there isn't a lot between them.

The ASKAR should be just as easy to take outside with the tube shortened for bino'ing.

 

why the orange? I don't know..........but it seems like a good scope visually - and good bang for your buck.

 

 

Where I am, the ASKAR is 3 times cheaper than a TSA 120.......so I don't think I'm going to be buying that TAK any time soon.

I have a 120 Equinox, FPL-53 Schott Ohara lenses. It is very close to my Tak FC100DL. I bought the 100 to see how a fluorite doublet does, and the answer is as good as a FPL-53 120mm.

 

What lenses does the Askar have?


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#18 Dave Novoselsky

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 05:46 PM

I have a 120 Equinox, FPL-53 Schott Ohara lenses. It is very close to my Tak FC100DL. I bought the 100 to see how a fluorite doublet does, and the answer is as good as a FPL-53 120mm.

 

What lenses does the Askar have?

“It is very close to my Tak FC100DL.” Close, but no cigar.  You could say the same thing when discussing an AT, a high end Skywatcher, a WO, or any other of the better built Chinese/Tiwanese APOs in comparison to Takahashi or for that matter AP, Stellarvue, TEC, etc. (I’m leaving out Televue in this discussion solely because they seem to be concentrated more on eyepieces rather than their telescopes.  I don’t doubt their quality but coming back here after a long absence, the available Televue scopes are as they were when I left. I would put Vixen in that category as well but looking at the specs of their new 90mm astrograph they still seem to be in the game.) Close but not quite, and there’s the rub.

 

The radical improvements in quality (optics and mechanicals) and from what I have seen, QC to avoid the stench that would quickly spread through the Net if too many dogs get out) have so narrowed the performance/quality gap that used to separate the Chinese scopes from the ‘premium’ products used to be quite large and readily apparent to even the less skilled or less fussy buyer.  Today, the gap is still there, but only the most skilled and sharpest-eyed can see it. This last is rarely acknowledged but very real.

 

The average user on this site is older than the median age in the world today.  Time does more than wound heels, it degrades your eyes as well.  The performance gap that I am saying still exists has narrowed to the point that older eyes can’t see it.  We may know it’s there and under the right seeing conditions we can see it, but not every time we have the chance to set up.  
 

So if it’s close but no cigar, and we are not going to focus on optical testing (sorry about that) is a Takahashi TSA 120 worth three times an Askar 120, especially when most of us will rarely see the difference through the eyepiece?  No, but that can be beside the point for a small but significant part of this hobby that value and can afford what I will call the cache of ownership above practicality. Stated another way, who said anything about need?
 

Nobody needs a Stellarvue or TEC 140 or 150 let alone a 185 from the same craftsmen when that same need can be satisfied by an Askar 140 or 185 with no wait and far less cost. The market has spoken on that since when I checked this morning out of curiosity the major Askar dealer was out of stock on the 140. Nobody needs to sell their firstborn nor wait a decade for an AP130 when you can get a comparable product for a fraction of the cost shipped the same day.

 

Why then do premium builders have backlogs?  Because there are those for whom close is not enough.  And this hobby should be happy they are here while being grateful that today’s refractors are close even if not the proverbial cigar.

 

My Phillipic for the day.


Edited by Dave Novoselsky, 13 February 2024 - 05:47 PM.

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#19 Oldfracguy

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 06:11 PM

 

 

The average user on this site is older than the median age in the world today.  Time does more than wound heels, it degrades your eyes as well.  The performance gap that I am saying still exists has narrowed to the point that older eyes can’t see it.  We may know it’s there and under the right seeing conditions we can see it, but not every time we have the chance to set up.  
 

Nobody needs a Stellarvue or TEC 140 or 150 let alone a 185 from the same craftsmen when that same need can be satisfied by an Askar 140 or 185 with no wait and far less cost. The market has spoken on that since when I checked this morning out of curiosity the major Askar dealer was out of stock on the 140. Nobody needs to sell their firstborn nor wait a decade for an AP130 when you can get a comparable product for a fraction of the cost shipped the same day.

 

Why then do premium builders have backlogs?  Because there are those for whom close is not enough.  And this hobby should be happy they are here while being grateful that today’s refractors are close even if not the proverbial cigar.

 

My Phillipic for the day.

  Wow, no posting of graphs of Relative Partial Dispersion vs. Abbe Number or Ray Tracing Diagrams at all.  Just plain reality. bow.gif



#20 Oldfracguy

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 06:16 PM

I have a 120 Equinox, FPL-53 Schott Ohara lenses. It is very close to my Tak FC100DL. I bought the 100 to see how a fluorite doublet does, and the answer is as good as a FPL-53 120mm.

 

What lenses does the Askar have?

As far as I have been able to determine, the glass is unspecified "ED glass".  The type of glass is just a start.  How well the lens elements are figured, assembled and mounted in their cell matter just as much.



#21 Dave Novoselsky

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 06:19 PM

  Wow, no posting of graphs of Relative Partial Dispersion vs. Abbe Number or Ray Tracing Diagrams at all.  Just plain reality. bow.gif

Thanks, I think?


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#22 Dave Novoselsky

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 06:21 PM

As far as I have been able to determine, the glass is unspecified "ED glass".  The type of glass is just a start.  How well the lens elements are figured, assembled and mounted in their cell matter just as much.

Rather obvious isn’t it?  But then never underestimate the general lack of knowledge in the world today says this elderly cynic.



#23 Oldfracguy

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 06:32 PM

Thanks, I think?

Yes indeed.

 

I was also going to mention DPAC testing, but I restrained myself.  What matters to us visual observers, older ones like me in particular, is what our own eyes tell us.  When the sharpness and detail visible in a scope match what our eyes are able to discern, then there really is no need from an observing standpoint to spend more money on a scope with incrementally better optics.  On the other hand, there are other reasons to buy those more expensive scopes, most of which have nothing to do with their actual optical performance.


Edited by Oldfracguy, 13 February 2024 - 06:33 PM.

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#24 Dave Novoselsky

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 06:48 PM

Yes indeed.

 

I was also going to mention DPAC testing, but I restrained myself.  What matters to us visual observers, older ones like me in particular, is what our own eyes tell us.  When the sharpness and detail visible in a scope match what our eyes are able to discern, then there really is no need from an observing standpoint to spend more money on a scope with incrementally better optics.  On the other hand, there are other reasons to buy those more expensive scopes, most of which have nothing to do with their actual optical performance.

Couldn’t agree more.  I used to race with Rick Mancuso, the owner of Lake Forest Sportscars, the Midwest Ferrari and other exotic dealer, as well as a general good guy.  We were sitting having some water cooling off in the pits during practice at Road America years ago when this 20 something dressed like a bum and carrying a shopping bag came up and asked Rick if he had a Ferrari Daytona available. Being a wise guy, I volunteered to what I thought was some kid with a daydream that he didn’t need a Ferrari but Rick’s brother the Chevrolet dealer might have a Corvette that he could lose his license in just as fast and for less money.  The kid smiled, opened the shopping bag which turned out to be filled with cash. Rick telephoned his sales manager and the kid was in his new Daytona that night.

 

Need versus want on a scale that may bring the Takahashi/AP question into focus.(Okay David, enough of the puns and stop playing the CN Will Rodger’s for the day.)


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#25 Oldfracguy

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Posted 13 February 2024 - 07:29 PM

Couldn’t agree more.  I used to race with Rick Mancuso, the owner of Lake Forest Sportscars, the Midwest Ferrari and other exotic dealer, as well as a general good guy.  We were sitting having some water cooling off in the pits during practice at Road America years ago when this 20 something dressed like a bum and carrying a shopping bag came up and asked Rick if he had a Ferrari Daytona available. Being a wise guy, I volunteered to what I thought was some kid with a daydream that he didn’t need a Ferrari but Rick’s brother the Chevrolet dealer might have a Corvette that he could lose his license in just as fast and for less money.  The kid smiled, opened the shopping bag which turned out to be filled with cash. Rick telephoned his sales manager and the kid was in his new Daytona that night.

 

Need versus want on a scale that may bring the Takahashi/AP question into focus.(Okay David, enough of the puns and stop playing the CN Will Rodger’s for the day.)

Back in the late 1960's and early 1970's, Motocross was real popular.  My Dad took me up to Carlsbad on his Electra Glide to watch one of the international races on one occasion.  Now it's Supercross in stadiums.  Anyway, one of the factory Suzuki riders who was either No.1 in the world or had just been No. 1 took an off-the-showroom floor stock yellow Suzuki 400, that any of us High School kids could have walked in and bought if we just had the money, to some local track and dusted the locals with their tricked out bikes who were extremely familiar with that track.  After a couple circuits he had already lapped them.

 

By the way, I just noticed that the inside of the sliding dew shield on the Askar 120 APO is flocked.  How's that for attention to detail?

 

101_2788.JPG


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