Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Classic 1930s Georg Tremel( Merz) Munich telescope refractor 125/1800

  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 18 February 2024 - 06:47 AM

Hello,

I found this 1930s Georg Tremel /Merz, Munich FH refractor 125/1800 last year in an antique store in Germany.

It was in  bad shape. Very dusty and the aluminum tubes were full of dents.  I replaced the long 100 mm tube with a new straight brass tube.

All optics are in good condition. There were 3 eyepieces , an eyepiece revolver and a 90 degree prism in the box.

Seems that the telescope survided the war , but stood untouched for the last 40-50 years in that depot. No tripod

or mount was included in the package.  I put the 7 kg telescope on my old Vixen SP-DX mount.

Any other Tremel scopes out there?

Michael


  • Paul Hyndman, starman876, ericb760 and 10 others like this

#2 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 18 February 2024 - 07:15 AM

photos

Attached Thumbnails

  • 427993630_7128087867270008_5327077604804296806_n (1).jpg
  • 367992871_6453096918102443_8117302040854220198_n.jpg
  • 369687119_6496549803757154_6230030953969427533_n.jpg

  • Paul Hyndman, deSitter, R Botero and 15 others like this

#3 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 18 February 2024 - 07:26 AM

photos

Attached Thumbnails

  • 369686949_6496550667090401_3594996267114429949_n.jpg
  • 375325127_6523500711062063_6289997924835687309_n.jpg
  • 381183541_6571928602885940_2990222462490501087_n (1).jpg
  • 382993925_6614180431994090_8469595596785126536_n.jpg

  • deSitter, R Botero, steve t and 14 others like this

#4 Bomber Bob

Bomber Bob

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 24,616
  • Joined: 09 Jul 2013
  • Loc: The Swamp, LA (Lower Alabama)

Posted 18 February 2024 - 09:10 AM

Hi Michael - Welcome to The Classics!!

 

Mama Mia!  What a unique & beautiful way to start your CN membership!


  • ericb760 and Mike Mopar like this

#5 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 18 February 2024 - 09:32 AM

Hi Bob,

thank you!  Yes, I had the luck to get it for a very low price last year. I heard of the Merz scopes, but was not sure who Mr. Tremel was.

I bought the big book from Jürgen Kost about the Merz history.  I even got a copy of a Tremel brochure of the 1930s from the German Museum in Munich.

Even with a price list.  For 780 RM ( Reichsmark )  you could get the 125 mm tube assembly.  But without mount and tripod.


  • steve t, Bomber Bob and Piggyback like this

#6 Terra Nova

Terra Nova

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 32,974
  • Joined: 29 May 2012
  • Loc: Kentucky, just south of the Ohio River

Posted 18 February 2024 - 11:43 AM

That’s a very interesting telescope you have there Michael thank you for sharing with us. The Cincinnati Observatory was established in 1843. In that year they sent representative to Germany where they arranged for Merz-Mayer to build a 12” wooden-tube refractor for the new observatory. The new telescope arrived and was installed in 1845 after being shipped from Germany to New Orleans and then traveling up the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers via St. Louis and Louisville to Cincinnati. It’s still in use today. I have looked through it many times.

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_9094.jpeg

Edited by Terra Nova, 18 February 2024 - 11:44 AM.

  • tim53, R Botero, Cliff C and 11 others like this

#7 Dave Novoselsky

Dave Novoselsky

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,405
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2008
  • Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago

Posted 18 February 2024 - 12:15 PM

Simply incredible.  My sincere congratulations.


  • Mike Mopar likes this

#8 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 18 February 2024 - 02:07 PM

Dear terra,

 

thank you!  That is a great telescope with 12 inch objective! Mine is only 5 inch, but I think it belonged on a stand rather than a wooden tripod.

The seller knows nothing of the history and where it came from. There is an observatory near Heilbronn where it came from. I contacted them, but I got no answer yet.

Georg Tremel purchased the MERZ factory in 1933, but he only produced telescopes in smaller numbers, I read. Only the school telescopes had larger numbers.

He left Germany in 1940 and moved to Austria with his company.

Also included was a simple mount. I think it was not an original Tremel build part?

Attached Thumbnails

  • 367978740_6453096521435816_847951055245348094_n.jpg
  • 367988658_6453096804769121_7443720206210627922_n.jpg
  • 369722148_6500279036717564_6019187521530273200_n.jpg
  • 375300661_6523500344395433_8692888510721815627_n.jpg
  • 382781949_6584139241664876_3003852660063350117_n.jpg

  • tim53, R Botero, steve t and 8 others like this

#9 Dave Novoselsky

Dave Novoselsky

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,405
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2008
  • Loc: SE Wisconsin/Chicago

Posted 18 February 2024 - 06:21 PM

I have, and enjoyed the rather expensive (nearly $100 on Kindle and even more in print version) book on Merz but it is devoted almost entirely to the company’s large, observatory sized instruments.  There is nothing I have able to locate that has anything about these later and smaller telescopes.

 

indeed, while there is a paucity of published works in English addressing the development and history of telescopes in general (with the exception of a flood of books on the Hubble.) I have found virtually nothing in print about ‘amateur ‘ American, European or Japanese telescopes other than Neil English’s excellent Buying and Using Classic Telescopes in the Patrick Moore series of books.  This site is a unique source and is much appreciated.


Edited by Dave Novoselsky, 18 February 2024 - 06:23 PM.

  • Mike Mopar likes this

#10 Terra Nova

Terra Nova

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 32,974
  • Joined: 29 May 2012
  • Loc: Kentucky, just south of the Ohio River

Posted 19 February 2024 - 07:57 AM

You’re most welcome Michael. I’m sure 5” Merz will give exquisite views. I love the accessories and the brass accents. I look forward to seeing the progress of your restoration and an observation report. You’re doing a wonderful job preserving an approximately 100 year old telescope of most august provenance. It’s definitely a worthy job!


  • Mike Mopar likes this

#11 AstroKerr

AstroKerr

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,281
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2017
  • Loc: 48° 16′ 8.4″ N, 225° 59′ 24″ W

Posted 20 February 2024 - 10:17 AM

You have done well. Always wear a smile. waytogo.gif


  • Mike Mopar likes this

#12 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 21 February 2024 - 10:33 AM

Does anybody have any photos of  Mr. Tremel and his company? Or any photos of his workshops over the years 1900-1970?

Thank you!

Attached Thumbnails

  • 427641676_7151963084882486_5593367826764013123_n (1).jpg

  • John Higbee and Bomber Bob like this

#13 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 09 March 2024 - 06:56 AM

Hello,

is the owner of the 60 mm Tremel telescope still here? he posted his Tremel scope in 2016 here I think?

Thanks and best wishes,

Michael



#14 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 02 January 2025 - 04:46 AM

Hello,

happy New Year!

I got some more photos of the Tremel telescope!

Attached Thumbnails

  • 375283928_6523500047728796_3677685762792592355_n.jpg
  • 375298941_6523501067728694_773828422254800391_n.jpg

  • R Botero, steve t and Bomber Bob like this

#15 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 02 January 2025 - 04:50 AM

and more pics!

Attached Thumbnails

  • 380542623_6576296645782469_6202475907623542829_n.jpg
  • 382773760_6584139634998170_6597366811998147111_n.jpg

  • R Botero, steve t, mdowns and 1 other like this

#16 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 02 January 2025 - 04:59 AM

more pics......

Attached Thumbnails

  • 385740939_6614180985327368_8662483075337928081_n.jpg
  • 382974121_6614180215327445_3272834882838633520_n.jpg

  • highfnum, R Botero, steve t and 4 others like this

#17 highfnum

highfnum

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 7,401
  • Joined: 06 Sep 2006
  • Loc: NE USA

Posted 02 January 2025 - 09:31 AM

great find enjoy it


  • Mike Mopar likes this

#18 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 22 January 2025 - 06:17 AM

I got the Tremel/Merz 125 mm and the Maurice Manent 110 mm side by side. The Merz will also hold Zeiss Jena eyepieces,because it has a M44 thread even in 1935!

Attached Thumbnails

  • 474514241_9002418926503550_3876367875110842999_n.jpg
  • 474583856_9002418659836910_3317321635753972855_n (1).jpg
  • 474087894_9002418746503568_6014558537763384054_n.jpg

  • R Botero, Bomber Bob, jcruse64 and 1 other like this

#19 Sky King

Sky King

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,699
  • Joined: 16 Mar 2017
  • Loc: Arizona

Posted 23 January 2025 - 02:15 PM

Hello,

is the owner of the 60 mm Tremel telescope still here? he posted his Tremel scope in 2016 here I think?

Thanks and best wishes,

Michael

Here's the thread on the 60mm

 

Also found

"In 1936, Anton Kutter succeeded in arranging with the optical-mechanical workshop of Georg Tremel, the successor of Merz Optics in Munich, to develop a capable amateur telescope. Merz optics had come into contact with the Brachyt design in 1918, when one such instrument had been turned for repair to Paul Zschokke, the workshop's owner at that time. In the following, Zschokke had constructed a Brachyt of 16 cm aperture by himself; unfortunately, this instrument - later in the Deutsches Museum, Munich, suffers from unrepairable coma."

 

And this:

"Traded Munich, Bavaria, Germany. Georg Merz (d.1867) leaves business to sons Sigmund & Ludwig. Sigmund becomes director. After Sigmund dies, cousins Jakob and Matthias Merz assumed business in 1883, sell it in 1903 to Paul Zschokke, former director of Steinheil. Zschokke d. 1932, company bankrupted but continued until WWII by employees Georg Tremel and August Loesch."

 

Also found a thread  about an 80mm, but the pictures are in the thread starters' gallery here

"The text on the rim of the objective lens is "G. Tremel. Munchen". After doing some web searching I found this little blurb on a German optician involved in making telescopes: "In 1936, Anton Kutter succeeded in arranging with the optical-mechanical workshop of Georg Tremel, the successor of Merz Optics in Munich, to develop a capable amateur telescope." So Georg(e) Tremel was apparently making telescopes in Munich in the Mid '30s. The objective on this scope shows no hint of a coating, which would suggest the lens was made pre-WWII. Here's a series of photos of the scope and the case it came in..."

 

Another link, might as well list it too while I'm at it. 

"The mounts used came from the Astro-Optical Workshop [of] Georg Tremel in Obermenzing, near Munich, which is the successor to the world famous Merz [whose reputation] had [already been] successfully established in amateur circles.   Precisely when these mounts were [originally] developed by Tremel can no longer be reliably dated from today's perspective.  However, it can be assumed that these specimens were already [in] existence in the 1920s when Tremel was still employed at Merz.  Various advertisements of the KOSMOS company in the author's own books (e.g. Henseling's Astronomical Handbook, [vol.] 2., 1925 edition) confirm this.   With the bankruptcy of the Merz plant in 1932, production ceased [and was subsequently] continued by the company setup by Tremel [as] the Astro-Optical Workshop of Georg Tremel and August Lösch."

 

Great job restoring yours and thanks for posting this beauty!


Edited by Sky King, 23 January 2025 - 04:34 PM.

  • Bomber Bob and Mike Mopar like this

#20 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 24 January 2025 - 03:43 AM

Thank you Sky King!

I have a big 600 pages book about the MERZ history from Dr. Jürgen Kost. 

There are also some pages of the Tremel history included !

I also have a copy of a price list from the 1930s  about the Tremel factory . The tube of my 125 mm refractor OTA alone costs 780 RM ( Reichsmark) then!

 

Thank you and best wishes!

Michael from Germany

 


  • Sky King likes this

#21 photiost

photiost

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,561
  • Joined: 14 Dec 2006
  • Loc: Montreal, Canada

Posted 26 January 2025 - 05:37 PM

Beautiful instrument congratulations !!

 

Have you had the chance to do a star test or similar?

 

Optically, how does it perform ?



#22 Mike Mopar

Mike Mopar

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2024

Posted 27 January 2025 - 03:36 AM

Hello Frank,

 

sorry , I had no chance to test the Tremel telescope yet. I will look for better weather in February to view the moon and the planets.

 

Best wishes,

Michael


  • photiost likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics