1573 replies to this topic

[Milos1977]

   I thought I would post few words and impressions, but since it is a very new design, and lots of people will have many questions I decided to write down as many of my impressions in the first 24h since I got it. So here we go..

 

Package arrived from Sky Rover Optics (Kunming-China) very well packed (extra thick cardboard box, and with pretty well air cushioning around the product box on 4 out of 6 sides. I would suggest putting the padding on all 6 sides just in case. By the way, tracking was possible from start to delivery, with 11 steps of location progress updates, which was nice. Support was very helpful throughout as I already mentioned in the other thread. 

 

Inside was a fancy product box which in itself has foam on all 6 sides, and the binocular is inside one of the best binocular pouch cases I have seen yet. Why best? Well, it's just padded and reinforced better than others while maintaining softness and light weight. I use those always when traveling, and in those pouches they are safe in my backpack or carry-on bag. Two straps for pouch and binocular, and a lens cloth.

 

The binocular itself really feels amazing in hand. Skin is medium gray olive green with satin finish. Very high end "Alpha" looking. Front caps are attached on the bottom which is new style to me. I like that system better than with the rubber ring around objective tubes like Nikon HG or Meade Masterclass, and many other.

Quality of build and mechanics seems truly top notch.  

 

The Focuser:
Focuser is somewhat new (model) experience to me. It feels a bit dry while surprisingly smooth at the same time and very well performing. One would expect such focuser to be swimming in grease, but this one is not :-) The slight dry feel and absolutely zero backlash at any point or direction (even when digging for it in small back and forth movements) tells me it is a different mechanics from any I had before. The more I use it the more I like the confidence in its movement it provides. The more precise you want to go in small movements, the more it impresses in performance. Another reason I believe it is a different approach is the knob rotates while the "8x42 APO label in the center of it stays put so the text is always leveled facing you. Thats pretty cool. In comparison, my MMC feels much more greased up where you can even hear grease when going back and forth quickly. On contrary, my Zeiss Conquest HD was too sticky and just came back from Zeiss repair where they replaced the focuser due to it being too dry and sticky. It is way more precise now, but still a bit dry and ..well not sticky anymore but far from smooth like SkyRover performs. The old school EII Nikon is still something to beat, but this one is another breed that gives the same confidence in operation. 

 

Rear elements are HUGE for a 42mm binoculars. You can see that next to my two "super wides" -The Nikon E2 8x30 8.8°, and the widest of all Tasco-110. 7x35 12.5°
The large eye pieces, as well as the accommodating prism system inside are the reason the whole binocular is a bit thicker by the rear end than your common 42mm Roof prism bino. It's quite an interesting design. It feels great in hand as such.
Looking on the inside of objective lenses I can see that all metal surfaces are painted and/or black anodized. No sign of prism joint line like in Kowa BDII case.

 

Eye cups retract in 5 steps which is another plus in my opinion as many have larger stops of two or three positions. Also a new feature to me as they have quite clicky solid stops. Some metalic action is involved.  Being 5 positions you must take more attention that both are on the same level as it isn't as easy to see as in 2 or 3 step systems.  However, it is more assuring than standard two or three steps twist cups that often have lots of in between play. In shape they resemble Nikon HG style eye cups, but are a bit less edgy and hence more comfortable to press on for me. Overall no complains there what so ever.

 

I will post my impressions here about the views as soon as I get some tests against the stars, and daylight. I have clear sky but seeing is very bad. Only quick views of the Moon and Orion were very interesting but lasted seconds at the time due to bad seeing.  Views during day are very impressive and wide as I expected. I got that "wow" effect when tested it yesterday on a sunny day indoors and out the window. Wider and a lot brighter than my 8.8° Nikon EII. I will test and compare more to my EII and MMC as I have time, and will post Part 2 of the review here. Till then enjoy some photos and let me know if you have any questions. 

Attached Thumbnails

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Edited by Milos1977, 20 February 2024 - 11:17 PM.

[Milos1977]

And few comparison posts of size and finish with Meade MAsterClass 10x56, and Tasco-110 7x35. 

Attached Thumbnails

• 
• 
• 

Edited by Milos1977, 20 February 2024 - 09:25 PM.

[Milos1977]

Nikon EII 8x30 and Sky Rover 8x42 eye pieces. 

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[jrazz]

Wow.... That's some ginormous eyecups!

I wonder what's the minimum IPD.

 

 

Looks good though! Can you measure the actual AFOV?

[B 26354]

Didn't see them on the Sky Rover website. Do you have a link? If not... can you list some specs?

[Milos1977]

IPD range is 56mm -74mm. Photos of measurements are here in post #228

 

 

Effective eye relief measured to be 13 to 13.5mm. Photos of two different measurements are here i post #153, 155, 269, 279

 

It's a bit tricky thing to measure knowing that to some people every bit of a millimeter matters, but I did double check my procedure and measurements, and took some photos for anyone interested I can PM.

 

Eye pieces have 27mm exposed lens diameter.

 

I confirmed the 42mm effective aperture, and 5.3mm EP

 

I "scanned" front lens group with line laser. post#176, and #161

 

I confirmed 9.1 FOV. No less! See post #26 on next page.

 

 

I can confirm it is a bit wider in both FOV and AFOV than my true good old 8.8° EII. By a little but noticeable bit. I've been switching between the two quite a bit last night.

 

The fun part that impressed me is that is easier to see the outside 30% (70-100% of AFOV) than I expected. It's quite comfortable on eyes.

[pat in los angeles basin]

http://www.sky-rover...asp?ProdNum=298

 

Pat

[jrazz]

That's awesome. They look really nice!

 

Did you notice CA during the day? Flat field? (hey, you said ask questions )

[sevenofnine]

The Sky Rover website would not translate to English for me. How about price? 

[Milos1977]

That's awesome. They look really nice!

Did you notice CA during the day? Flat field? (hey, you said ask questions )

The field is very "flat"-as in not warped when it comes to angular magnification distortion! I did the test today against a huge chess board chart at my work place which we use for checking camera lenses and image curvature. I also can easily see that it is flat on many patterns around the house like my wife's large shelf with aquariums, or the brick wall and windows of the building about 100 feet away. Nikon EII and Meade Master class show curvature (quite opposite from each other :-), which is normal. So does the GPO 8x56 to a lesser extent due to narrower FOV and its own optics design. This guy does not! Long vertical and horizontal lines hold straight all the way to the edge. I don't find that as crucial for stargazing, but it is pretty cool :-) specially for terrestrial viewing. It leaves the impression of better easier view outside center 50% at least during the day.

CA control is pretty good. About the same as MMC, but I will look closer and report later.

Edited by Milos1977, 21 February 2024 - 01:08 PM.

[Swedpat]

This is obviously a chinese attempt to compete to NL Pure. And it looks beefy! I wonder if eye relier is as good as 8x42 NL Pure.

[wrighty338]

Thanks for the pics and keeping us updated Milos, they are quite large but so are the performance statements so i hope they hold their own. If they have good or better colour correction than the MMC it may be hard to resist

 

The Sky Rover website would not translate to English for me. How about price? 

See post 70 from previous thread

[f18dad]

In your excellent photo of the objectives and their baffling, what do you think is the purpose of that one piece of baffling towards the lower back of the right objective (looking at the photo)? It looks like a little black dam.

 

The more I see and learn about this binocular, the more it reminds me of my Athlon Cronus 8.5x42, which was almost certainly also manufactured by KUO. Also, someone in another thread referred to a "cardboard" 3D effect which well describes the view through the Cronus by day. Do you see this cardboard effect? As if objects at different distances are layered or stacked on one another?

 

Dimensions and eyepieces also seem the same. The focus knob is ditto. 

 

Super good report Milos. A very attractive bino so far. Looking forward to the balance of your report. Carry on!

[Milos1977]

f18dad, The "little black dam' is the base of the focusing lens element that travels back and forth on a rail below. It moves back and forth as you turn the focus knob. 

 

Yes, what you described as cardboard 3D effect is noticeable when panning faster back and forth with many objects that are at different distances in front of observer. I have seen this with many lenses in my profession. It's an effect produced by well corrected images with no angular distortion, and features moving from side to side when panning maintain their shape as opposed to warp slightly. The separation between objects is also enhanced as you move left to right. It's all normal, and a feature of the optic design. I find it much less noticeable than a rolling ball effect on MMC lens design. Much like the rolling ball effect, it is seen when panning only, but unlike "rolling ball" effect, I expect it should not be visible against star filled sky where everything is at infinity.

Cloudy nights are ahead in my area :-(. 

Edited by Milos1977, 21 February 2024 - 12:27 PM.

[Rich V.]

The field is very flat! I did the test today against a huge chess board chart at my work place which we use for checking camera lenses and image curvature. I also can easily see that it is flat on many patterns around the house like my wife's large shelf with aquariums, or the brick wall and windows of the building about 100 feet away. Nikon EII and Meade Master class show curvature (quite opposite from each other :-), which is normal. So does the GPO 8x56 to a lesser extent due to narrower FOV and its own optics design. This guy does not! Long vertical and horizontal lines hold straight all the way to the edge. I don't find that as crucial for stargazing, but it is pretty cool :-) specially for terrestrial viewing. It leaves the impression of better easier view outside center 50% at least during the day.

CA control is pretty good. About the same as MMC, but I will look closer and report later.

Your looking at a grid is a good test for distortion towards the edges, but you're referring to angular magnification distortion, i.e. barrel distortion or its opposite, pincushion distortion, not field curvature. Do you see any of the "rolling ball" effect when panning?

 

Field curvature would be how well focus is maintained from center of field to the edges.  Does the image remain in focus all the way from the center out to the field stop?  That would be good to know also.

[Milos1977]

Rich, Thank you for correction! 

I fell into a trap with a question if "Field" is flat thinking of the flat (not curved) image I observed of the chess board chart. The correct term as you pointed out is angular magnification distortion. 

So no, I do not see any pin cushion or barrel, rolling ball effects. I do see those, as I said in all of my other binoculars, specially MMC or wider ones like (Even EII).

Sky Rover is a very well corrected system as far as that goes all the way to the edge. Looking at any perpendicular grid lines, the verticals and horizontals remain straight and perpendicular across the entire field. I will try to correct above so its clearer. 

 

The sharpness is very good across the field, but I want to test it against stars in good seeing. In daylight looking at nature at distance or close by within room the image near the edges really looks as sharp as one would want. It appears same everywhere, and the same goes for brightness and contrast so the ability to observe the outer 30% feels as present in front of you as the middle 70%. It all adds up to a very clear wide image easy to look at. 

Edited by Milos1977, 21 February 2024 - 12:22 PM.

[f18dad]

f18dad, The "little black dam' is the base of the focusing lens element that travels back and forth on a rail below. It moves back and forth as you turn the focus knob. 

 

Yes, what you described as cardboard 3D effect is noticeable when panning faster back and forth with many objects that are at different distances in front of observer. I have seen this with many lenses in my profession. It's an effect produced by well corrected images with no angular distortion and features moving from side to side when panning maintain their shape as opposed to warp slightly. The separation between objects is also enhanced as you move left to right. It's all normal, and a feature of the optic design. I find it much less noticeable than a rolling ball effect on MMC lens design. Much like the rolling ball effect, it is seen when panning only, but unlike "rolling ball" effect, I expect it should not be visible against star filled sky where everything is at infinity.

Cloudy nights are ahead in my area :-(. 

 

Thanks, maybe I have that feature on mine too. I will turn the focusing knob and look for it.

 

I personally like the 3D "cardboard" effect in my Cronus. It's a bit like looking through a stereoscope. I haven't thought of it as a flaw or aberration. Just the opposite. It's a really nice asset. No other binocular in my stable does it as well. It is especially pronounced in daylight when looking over a field of objects at different distances and depths from one another, say across a park of trees. I think it would be harder to detect viewing at close range, indoors, or across the street at a brick building. But you are an expert optical observer and obviously still see it within more confined environments.

 

The Athlon also has field flatteners and ED glass with no CA and all the other bells and whistles. The views are absolutely flat with no field curvature. What it does not have is 9.1° FOV, which should be amazing. The Athlon has 7.7° but with 8.5x mag. In time, it will be interesting for someone to take measurements of the FOV, TFOV and AOV of the Banner Cloud and see if the 9.1° FOV holds up. It's a huge difference between 7.7° and 9.1°. What I can say is that at night stars remain pinpoint sharp right up to the field stop in the 8.5x42 Cronus. It will be interesting to learn how well and to what extent off axis sharpness is maintained on night skies with the Banner Cloud.

 

I believe the Banner Cloud may be a further evolution of the Cronus (as a harbinger prototype) and the Banner Cloud may have accommodated consumer feedback recommendations such as those listed in a review in Birdforum:

 

-Less weight (what is the weight?)
-Flat mount thread cap (done)
-Intermediate stop of eye cups, at least two steps out - (you say 5 steps)
-Brighter image (?)
-More neutral color reproduction (?)

 

So far, it certainly looks like a great bino for the price. 8x42 is so versatile and is such a popular space in the marketplace. I hope they ramp up production (with strict QC) and increase their worldwide spectrum of dealers.

Edited by f18dad, 21 February 2024 - 12:58 PM.

[vilchez]

Thanks for the thread. I see certain similarities in construction with the Kowa BDII.

I am very interested in how it performs in the night sky, a moonless night.

[vilchez]

You could take a photo of the objective lenses together with the Nikon EII to see the coatings on both?

Edited by vilchez, 21 February 2024 - 01:41 PM.

[Swedpat]

Another thing: the eyecups look crazy wide. If eye relief is sufficient for eyeglasses it will work good. But without eyeglasses it seems like the eyecups are too wide for the eyesockets.

And: what is the size of the eye lenses?

Edited by Swedpat, 21 February 2024 - 02:08 PM.

[Rich V.]

A question about effective eye relief; the specs appear to show an 18mm ER.  How much of that ER is actually effective, in other words, from the face of retracted eyecup to the exit pupil distance?  Usually specs come up a few mms short from the claimed ER due to eye lens recess.

 

If a bino has both long ER and a wide AFOV, it becomes necessary for the eye lens to become quite large to make that happen.  Those extra large diameter eyepieces seem to be a result of that.  They do appear to be quite a bit larger than average, similar to those of the WF 7x Porros.  

[Swedpat]

A question about effective eye relief; the specs appear to show an 18mm ER.  How much of that ER is actually effective, in other words, from the face of retracted eyecup to the exit pupil distance?  Usually specs come up a few mms short from the claimed ER due to eye lens recess.

 

If a bino has both long ER and a wide AFOV, it becomes necessary for the eye lens to become quite large to make that happen.  Those extra large diameter eyepieces seem to be a result of that.  They do appear to be quite a bit larger than average, similar to those of the WF 7x Porros.  

 

NL Pure 8x42 also has stated eye relief of 18mm. The eye lenses are ~25mm and that combined with that the eye lens is hardly recessed at all from the eyecup edge made it fully satisfactory with eyeglasses for me.

This Sky rover 8x42 seems to be very similar as I can see.

[f18dad]

Yes. It appears to be a made in China Swarovski NL pure in a different skin. FOV at 9.1 degrees is also a match.

[Mark Y.]

With a FOV of .9.1 degrees it seems some folks may be putting their Swift Audubons up for sale.

 

Still no talk of the price? Am I missing something?

[f18dad]

With a FOV of .9.1 degrees it seems some folks may be putting their Swift Audubons up for sale.

 

Still no talk of the price? Am I missing something?

 

I think I read FOB US$459/PC plus airfreight somewhere.