16 replies to this topic

[fracville]

Scope: Lunt LS60MT/B1200

Budget: $1000 area.

Experience with Imaging: None, to date I have been exclusively visual.

 

I am assuming a monochrome imaging camera with a reasonably large sensor (within budget) is preferable -- but since  I am only guessing, thought I'd ask some Ha solar imagers out there. I also wouldn't mind using the camera on planetary imaging as well, but solar is the priority. Any specific recommendations ?  Thanks in advance!

Edited by fracville, 25 February 2024 - 07:13 PM.

[StargazerLuigi]

I bought one of these for my Lunt LS60THa with B1200 but have not had a chance for first light.:

 

https://player-one-a...-camera-imx533/

 

I read this thread and just did what they said

https://www.cloudyni...ra-for-lunt-60/

 

This guy has a set up very similar to mine and his images are excellent, IMO.

https://www.astrobin...users/rigel123/

[fracville]

I bought one of these for my Lunt LS60THa with B1200 but have not had a chance for first light.:

 

https://player-one-a...-camera-imx533/

 

I read this thread and just did what they said

https://www.cloudyni...ra-for-lunt-60/

 

This guy has a set up very similar to mine and his images are excellent, IMO.

https://www.astrobin...users/rigel123/

Thanks so much Luigi !

[StargazerLuigi]

Hopefully the experts will find this thread and weigh in.

[MalVeauX]

Scope: Lunt LS60MT/B1200

Budget: $1000 area.

Experience with Imaging: None, to date I have been exclusively visual.

 

I am assuming a monochrome imaging camera with a reasonably large sensor (within budget) is preferable -- but since  I am only guessing, thought I'd ask some Ha solar imagers out there. I also wouldn't mind using the camera on planetary imaging as well, but solar is the priority. Any specific recommendations ?  Thanks in advance!

Hi,

 

It depends on if you want to critically sample (get as much resolution potential as you can). The IMX533 is the way to go there for this instrument with a 2x barlow. That's a critically sampled full disc.

 

If you don't want to mess around with maxing out the imaging train and sampling potential, the IMX429 is a good sensor that is inexpensive for a full disc at the native F7 of the scope with no barlow.

 

Very best,

[fracville]

Hi,

 

It depends on if you want to critically sample (get as much resolution potential as you can). The IMX533 is the way to go there for this instrument with a 2x barlow. That's a critically sampled full disc.

 

If you don't want to mess around with maxing out the imaging train and sampling potential, the IMX429 is a good sensor that is inexpensive for a full disc at the native F7 of the scope with no barlow.

 

Very best,

Thanks for your input Marty!

I'm in the camp of the former, and not the latter, as I'd love to capture as much resolution with a full disc image as possible.

Do you think the Saturn-M is the preferred option with the IMX533 sensor than say a ZWO ASI533MC Pro, or are they all pretty much the same with little performance difference  for this application?
 

[MalVeauX]

Hi,

 

The sensors are identical, Sony sensors. These distributors (ZWO, Player One, QHS, etc) don't make the sensors, they just make a USB interface and driver SDK based on the Sony sensor's instruction set and generally are all similar on ASCOM platforms. You may find tiny differences, but almost all of it is minutia or marketing publication stuff. Some of them are trying to use faster memory as the buffer to get an edge in speed (minimal increase). Player One has extra things like tilt and a better buffer, etc. I would argue to just get the most cost effective one that you can that is mono and not color. Last consideration is what software you use for acquisition. Some distributors are a bit more fussy with the software control outside of ASCOM (QHS for example) in some specific softwares. So personal preference there. Also, cooling has zero impact on this use, short exposure times, no impact on noise.

 

Very best,

Edited by MalVeauX, 25 February 2024 - 09:55 PM.

[fracville]

Hi,

 

The sensors are identical, Sony sensors. These distributors (ZWO, Player One, QHS, etc) don't make the sensors, they just make a USB interface and driver SDK based on the Sony sensor's instruction set and generally are all similar on ASCOM platforms. You may find tiny differences, but almost all of it is minutia or marketing publication stuff. Some of them are trying to use faster memory as the buffer to get an edge in speed (minimal increase). Player One has extra things like tilt and a better buffer, etc. I would argue to just get the most cost effective one that you can that is mono and not color. Last consideration is what software you use for acquisition. Some distributors are a bit more fussy with the software control outside of ASCOM (QHS for example) in some specific softwares. So personal preference there. Also, cooling has zero impact on this use, short exposure times, no impact on noise.

 

Very best,

Great stuff! Thank you!
 

[fracville]

Hi,

 

The sensors are identical, Sony sensors. These distributors (ZWO, Player One, QHS, etc) don't make the sensors, they just make a USB interface and driver SDK based on the Sony sensor's instruction set and generally are all similar on ASCOM platforms. You may find tiny differences, but almost all of it is minutia or marketing publication stuff. Some of them are trying to use faster memory as the buffer to get an edge in speed (minimal increase). Player One has extra things like tilt and a better buffer, etc. I would argue to just get the most cost effective one that you can that is mono and not color. Last consideration is what software you use for acquisition. Some distributors are a bit more fussy with the software control outside of ASCOM (QHS for example) in some specific softwares. So personal preference there. Also, cooling has zero impact on this use, short exposure times, no impact on noise.

 

Very best,

Marty, even in our Florida summers when solar imaging, the ACS on the Saturn-M SQR wouldn't offer any real world benefits?
 

[rigel123]

Marty, even in our Florida summers when solar imaging, the ACS on the Saturn-M SQR wouldn't offer any real world benefits?
 

I’ve imaged with the 533 when the temp of the sensor is 51C and no ill effects to the images.  A number of folks, I believe that includes Marty, wrap their scopes and cameras in reflective material mainly to control atmospheric turbulence around the scope which, judging by their images, works well for them.

[MalVeauX]

Marty, even in our Florida summers when solar imaging, the ACS on the Saturn-M SQR wouldn't offer any real world benefits?
 

No. So far, no data supports anything like that. The cooling system drops the temperature which in theory may prolong its life, but frankly, we're not running these very hot for extended periods, daily, so without data that's just a nice thought. In reality, you will easily move on to newer tech by the time this "gets too hot" ever in use behind solar filter systems. The heat is not significant. Florida ambient temperature is not much more special than anything else. These sensors don't bat an eyelash at a 20~30 degree difference in temp (F). I run several sensors near 120F for sessions and you'd never know it. Cooling on these sensors is for noise suppression with long exposures, where the heat from the long exposure has impact. This isn't the case with short exposure and so there's nothing that shows that cooling short exposures helps noise profiles. Will it hurt to have cooling? No. It's just extra cost and an extra wire to run it. So if you don't care about the cost, you can do it and never worry about it. But ultimately there's just not a compelling reason to use cooling for this unless you're actually experiencing over heating issues (but this would more likely be due to the optical pathway and insufficient filtration for managing thermal throughput, but that would generally only come from a large aperture with a short focal length).

 

I do cover my cameras with something to block direct sunlight to them, especially my black body cameras. This has nothing to do with noise and everything to do with how insanely hot a black piece of metal will get sitting in direct sunlight. I cover mine with a cloth or cover just to avoid direct sunlight. Less burned fingers.

 

Very best,

Edited by MalVeauX, 25 February 2024 - 10:43 PM.

[fracville]

I’ve imaged with the 533 when the temp of the sensor is 51C and no ill effects to the images.  A number of folks, I believe that includes Marty, wrap their scopes and cameras in reflective material mainly to control atmospheric turbulence around the scope which, judging by their images, works well for them.

 

 

No. So far, no data supports anything like that. The cooling system drops the temperature which in theory may prolong its life, but frankly, we're not running these very hot for extended periods, daily, so without data that's just a nice thought. In reality, you will easily move on to newer tech by the time this "gets too hot" ever in use behind solar filter systems. The heat is not significant. Florida ambient temperature is not much more special than anything else. These sensors don't bat an eyelash at a 20~30 degree difference in temp (F). I run several sensors near 120F for sessions and you'd never know it. Cooling on these sensors is for noise suppression with long exposures, where the heat from the long exposure has impact. This isn't the case with short exposure and so there's nothing that shows that cooling short exposures helps noise profiles. Will it hurt to have cooling? No. It's just extra cost and an extra wire to run it. So if you don't care about the cost, you can do it and never worry about it. But ultimately there's just not a compelling reason to use cooling for this unless you're actually experiencing over heating issues (but this would more likely be due to the optical pathway and insufficient filtration for managing thermal throughput, but that would generally only come from a large aperture with a short focal length).

 

I do cover my cameras with something to block direct sunlight to them, especially my black body cameras. This has nothing to do with noise and everything to do with how insanely hot a black piece of metal will get sitting in direct sunlight. I cover mine with a cloth or cover just to avoid direct sunlight. Less burned fingers.

 

Very best,

Thanks again to all in helping this newbie solar imager get off and running ... chances are it won't be the last you hear from me!

Edited by fracville, 26 February 2024 - 12:25 AM.

[MalVeauX]

Where in Central Florida are you?

 

I'm over near Trenton/CedarKey.

 

Very best,

[fracville]

Where in Central Florida are you?

 

I'm over near Trenton/CedarKey.

 

Very best,

Hey Marty, I'm in Clermont -- an area (in)famously known for replacing orange groves with more subdivisions.

 

Cheers,

Tom

[KevinFH]

One thing I have heard (read?) is that different brands may not all be purchasing the same grade of the sensor.

Not all pixels work on brand new sensors.  The fewer the bad pixels, the more Sony can get for them.

While the above may be true, I don't think I ever noticed an image problem and thought: "**** ZWO bought those cheap sensors from Sony".

[Ani_101]

Hi, I have a 533Mc pro and a 174mm for nighttime imaging. The 533mc pro is the main camera and the 174mm is the guide scope for night time imaging. I would like to re-purpose these for solar imagain (H alpha and CaK). 

 

would one be better than the other for either Ha or Cak, or using both at the same time. The scopes are lunt 60mm Ha Single stack (for now, hopefully DS shortly) scope with B1200 and an 70mm F6 Doublet for the Cak.

 

Are there any other cameras that would be better suited that I can maybe add on at a later point of time?

[stargazer julie]

Hi, I have a 533Mc pro and a 174mm for nighttime imaging. The 533mc pro is the main camera and the 174mm is the guide scope for night time imaging. I would like to re-purpose these for solar imagain (H alpha and CaK). 

 

would one be better than the other for either Ha or Cak, or using both at the same time. The scopes are lunt 60mm Ha Single stack (for now, hopefully DS shortly) scope with B1200 and an 70mm F6 Doublet for the Cak.

 

Are there any other cameras that would be better suited that I can maybe add on at a later point of time?

You may want to start your own thread but a mono camera is best.  You can try both, but the 174mm might be the one you will prefer. With these two cameras, you may not need to purchase an additional camera. Of course, the 533mm would offer the best of both worlds.  Double stack is nice, maybe look for a used double stack, even a 50mm, rather than an additional camera. Just my opinion.