10 replies to this topic

[T~Stew]

When the last Geminids happened on a rare combo of new moon and clear skies I tried my hand with a couple cameras. I realized I didn't have a good combo, using the nifty fifty on one and a Rok 14mm SP F2.4. As expected I didn't get great results, and wow the Rok 14mm really showed off the tilt that sensor has after I modded it lol, will have to address that. But anyway I think I need a lens better fitted to meteors. Seems like 35mm f1.4's are popular? My main cams are Canon 6D and 7DII, I assume 6D to make use of maximum framing.

 

It'll probably be mostly for this purpose, so one of the full manual lenses like Rok/Samy would likely be fine. The 35/1.4 is pretty cheap. The XP/SP 35/1.2 is over double the price. Is going from 1.4 to 1.2 worth that much? Are other aspects of the XP/SP lens improved?

 

The Sigma 40mm f1.4 seemed to get some praise, but is out of production now? The Sigma 35mm f1.4 art is about the same price as the faster f1.2 Samy/Rok XP/SP, is the Sigma better quality or just paying for all the electronics I don't really need?

[slepage]

I have the 6D that I like to use for Meteor showers and summer Milky way images.  I'm not a huge fan of the 14mm, and the 35mm is not quite wide enough, but I find the 24mm perfect.  I have the Rokinon and I love that lens and not very expensive.

 

Steve

[Jim Waters]

but I find the 24mm perfect.  I have the Rokinon and I love that lens and not very expensive.

+1 for the 24mm lens.  Double check the infinity focus point on the Rokinon lens then check one more time.  Don't shoot wide open.  Shorter FL Rokinon lens have QC problems and some have lots of coma...  Check things out first.

[Jayhawk1989]

Another +1 for a 24 mm.  I have the Rokinon (moderate coma) but didn't "Check things out first" as Jim says.  If I did, the one I have would have been returned for another copy...just didn't know better at the time.

[Jim Waters]

Some say Samyang lens have less issues.  They are made by the same company.

[LeoUK]

Without wanting to over complicate things, the first consideration for imaging meteors is of course aperture, or "clear aperture" - scroll down to the tables on Roger Clark's site (section 1a).

 

Personally, I don't think that any one lens covers all situations, and I have used everything from 14-50mm over the years for meteors. Up till recently my favorite all round meteor/meteor/shower lens had been the 24/1.4, but now it's the 28/1.4 (Art), which gives a better compromise between aperture and focal length (longer FLs give more detail in individual meteors) than the 24/1.4 IMHO.

 

I also love the Tamron 35/1.4 SP which is excellent value for money, and very usable wide open. The 20/1.4 (Art) is also a good lens for meteors - I have 3 copies, and a copy or two of the 14/1.8, but the new 14/1.4 sounds even better! I'll buy one someday...

 

Don't forget you can always aim closer to the radiant to compensate for longer focal length. Shower members close to the radiant will tend to be shorter than those that appear further away, and larger physical aperture picks up meteors that might not be picked up by lenses with smaller apertures. Of course longer focal lengths can make it a bit trickier if you want to include some foreground.

[T~Stew]

Thanks all, giving me something to think about a little more.

Without wanting to over complicate things, the first consideration for imaging meteors is of course aperture, or "clear aperture" - scroll down to the tables on Roger Clark's site (section 1a).

Roger's site was what got me going as a beginner years ago, I've referenced his clear aperture numbers many times, that's the main reason I was looking at the 35mm 1.2 and 1.4 lenses vs the 14mm - 24mm etc.
 
However I guess the one I remember reading about most was the Sigma 28mm 1.4 seems EricTheCat sports this lens and does well with it. Maybe quoting one of his posts will alert him to chime in?
 

I already posted a few composite images in this thread here: https://www.cloudyni...3#entry13130911
 
I had cameras running almost the entire night.  One T8i with a 15mm f/2.8 lens and one with a 28mm f/1.4 lens.  The camera with the 15mm f/2.8 lens captured 134 frames with meteors.  The camera with the 28mm f/1.4 lens captured 326 frames with meteors.  Both cameras captured 5 meteors that left a persistent train.
 
Also I added a video to my youtube channel here that includes a slideshow of images, time-lapse of persistent trains and some video clips of meteors https://youtu.be/gfEIpE_5XYY
 
Here is a composite image I hadn't posted yet elsewhere on cloudy nights so I'll add it here.
 
Meteors-2023-12-14-Combine28mm2S.jpg
Camera: Canon Rebel T8i (modified)
Lens: 28mm f/1.4 sigma art
Exposures: 5sec at f/1.4 and ISO 3200

Here is a beautiful shot with the 28/1.4 wow! https://www.cloudyni...r-this-morning/
 
I wonder how the corner stars are on full frame though.

[LeoUK]

It's not bad at all wide open on FF, although not perfect. I had a look through footage I shot a few nights back for a good example - here's a (4k) screen shot. The bright star near the top right is slightly elongated, but it's barely noticeable.

I pointed Eric over here on another thread he posts on. Hopefully he'll see at least one of our posts. His fireball catch was a great one!

[EricTheCat]

Thanks all, giving me something to think about a little more.


Roger's site was what got me going as a beginner years ago, I've referenced his clear aperture numbers many times, that's the main reason I was looking at the 35mm 1.2 and 1.4 lenses vs the 14mm - 24mm etc.
 
However I guess the one I remember reading about most was the Sigma 28mm 1.4 seems EricTheCat sports this lens and does well with it. Maybe quoting one of his posts will alert him to chime in?
 

Here is a beautiful shot with the 28/1.4 wow! https://www.cloudyni...r-this-morning/
 
I wonder how the corner stars are on full frame though.

Hello,
I don't have a full frame camera to show corners on that.  Currently I use a Canon Rebel T8i (22.30mm x 14.90mm sensor).

 

Here is how stars look in the corners at full res using Aberration Inspector in PixInsight on an image that was just screen stretched and nothing else.

 

Sigma 28mm f/1.4 art lens wide open at f/1.4.  Untracked 5sec exposure at ISO 3200. 

 

Source image for comparison:

 

Overall I think it is a great lens.  There are some aberrations when running it wide open.  To my eye the star shapes are not noticeable once an image is resized for normal viewing.  There is some vignetting and I sometimes use ABE or DBE to help with that.

 

I expect a full frame camera wouldn't do as well.

[T~Stew]

Hello,
I don't have a full frame camera to show corners on that.  Currently I use a Canon Rebel T8i (22.30mm x 14.90mm sensor).

 

Here is how stars look in the corners at full res using Aberration Inspector in PixInsight on an image that was just screen stretched and nothing else.

 

Sigma 28mm f/1.4 art lens wide open at f/1.4.  Untracked 5sec exposure at ISO 3200. 

Inspection-IMG_4763.jpg

 

Source image for comparison:

IMG_4763SS.jpg

 

Overall I think it is a great lens.  There are some aberrations when running it wide open.  To my eye the star shapes are not noticeable once an image is resized for normal viewing.  There is some vignetting and I sometimes use ABE or DBE to help with that.

 

I expect a full frame camera wouldn't do as well.

Thanks so much for the info and image. Yeah, those corners don't look too bad for wide open 1.4 and when downscaled a bit the blocky stars will look better (atleast they don't have big wings or something). However its a bit concerning thinking about how much more it will degrade over a full frame.

 

Now I have plenty of crop frames as well (7DII is my main camera), so I don't have to use full frame. But I hate to give up the wider framing when I have the option.

 

So I guess there are some more things to consider. The Sigma 28/1.4 definitely is on my finalist list. I could just use it on my 7DII, or 6D + crop it if it gets too bad.

 

Would it be worth stopping it down to get better full frame corners vs wide open and cropping?

 

Or would there be a better contender for full frame coverage?

 

For something cheaper like the Samyang lenses, I had even thought about a pair of them, running dual cameras and lenses to cover a wider view, and stitch the images together. I have two 7DII bodies, and wouldn't be opposed to also picking up a second 6D for dual full frame cams, they can usually be found pretty cheap nowadays on ebay. However two Sigma's might be too $$ for me just as hobby, so probably won't do that. But just something to keep in mind, instead of trying to spend more for one good full frame lens, for the same price maybe two Samy/Rok shooting together would do as well or better? I could machine a bracket to mount the cameras in an appropriate position. Thoughts?

[EricTheCat]

Thanks so much for the info and image. Yeah, those corners don't look too bad for wide open 1.4 and when downscaled a bit the blocky stars will look better (atleast they don't have big wings or something). However its a bit concerning thinking about how much more it will degrade over a full frame.

 

Now I have plenty of crop frames as well (7DII is my main camera), so I don't have to use full frame. But I hate to give up the wider framing when I have the option.

 

So I guess there are some more things to consider. The Sigma 28/1.4 definitely is on my finalist list. I could just use it on my 7DII, or 6D + crop it if it gets too bad.

 

Would it be worth stopping it down to get better full frame corners vs wide open and cropping?

 

Or would there be a better contender for full frame coverage?

 

For something cheaper like the Samyang lenses, I had even thought about a pair of them, running dual cameras and lenses to cover a wider view, and stitch the images together. I have two 7DII bodies, and wouldn't be opposed to also picking up a second 6D for dual full frame cams, they can usually be found pretty cheap nowadays on ebay. However two Sigma's might be too $$ for me just as hobby, so probably won't do that. But just something to keep in mind, instead of trying to spend more for one good full frame lens, for the same price maybe two Samy/Rok shooting together would do as well or better? I could machine a bracket to mount the cameras in an appropriate position. Thoughts?

 

I don't like to stop down at all when going for meteors.  Choosing between stopping down and cropping I would crop if necessary.  That's just me.  However, if your camera can do well at higher ISO than mine then stopping down isn't a bad solution.  I usually run at ISO 3200 on my 28mm and ISO 6400 on my 15mm f/2.8.

 

I almost always run the lens wide open so I don't have a lot of stopped down images to look at.  I found this one at f/2.5 with a few things in the way from when I was checking for aurora the other night.  I might be able to do some testing this weekend at various f stops.

 

5sec f/2.5 ISO 3200

 

Edited by EricTheCat, 07 March 2024 - 04:00 PM.