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Almost a BV disaster!

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#1 Kim2010

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 04:39 PM

OMG my heart skipped a beat!

 

So I have my brand new Maxbright II attached to my C8 using a 2" diagonal and the C8 2" SCT adapter. I am also using 2 Xcel LX 25mms. I am quite wary of the weight and so I am watching the scope while my C8 is doing a go-to slew. All of a sudden the BV went loose (OMG!!) and rotated and impacted the back plastic part of the EQ5 mount. I panicked and instead of immediately stopping the mount, I tinkered with the BV so that the mount can continue to slew. Fortunately, there wasn't any damage.

 

But how the heck do you prevent this from happening? The BV is so heavy that it is really prone to rotating because the screw/clamp on the 2" diagonal and even the C8 2" adapter can only hold weight up to a certain point. 

 

Anything I can do here?



#2 Kim2010

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 04:41 PM

And Thank God the BV did not slide off and fall to the concrete ground!!! THANK GOD!!! It was a warning though to make sure I do something to avoid this from happening again.


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#3 MarkMittlesteadt

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 04:46 PM

Perhaps drill and tap for additional EP clamping thumbscrews?


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#4 Mike G.

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 05:09 PM

get one of these:

https://agenaastro.c...sct-thread.html


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#5 Nerd1

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 05:16 PM

I second the clicklock, my Binoviewers fell out of the back of my scope. Lucky it was on ground that was like a pillow. No damage, but my heart was in my throat. After that I got the SCT clicklock back.

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#6 AstroApe

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 05:58 PM

This makes my pulse rate go up just reading it! Glad everything worked out for the best, Thank God is right. 

 

I had a 2" dielectric with eyepiece & Barlow spin around and smack the mount mid-slew once, scared the absolute crap outta me. Although I don't have one on any of my scopes, I know several club members & friends that do have the Baader Click-Lock and love 'em.


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#7 TOMDEY

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 06:08 PM

Modify the attachment to preclude that problem. Something like another/additional thumb screw or whatever makes sense there.     Tom


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#8 Kim2010

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 06:11 PM

This makes my pulse rate go up just reading it! Glad everything worked out for the best, Thank God is right. 

 

I had a 2" dielectric with eyepiece & Barlow spin around and smack the mount mid-slew once, scared the absolute crap outta me. Although I don't have one on any of my scopes, I know several club members & friends that do have the Baader Click-Lock and love 'em.

 

I guess these small disasters that could have been REAL disasters give us a warning to do something about it LOL! :)


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#9 donniesoprano

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 07:33 PM

Also always view from the right hand side or bias the BV to the right a little bit, so that an SCT threaded accessory would tighten with gravity instead of loosen.  I had a scare from that, too, and I suspect I’m not alone.

 

ds


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#10 Nerd1

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 07:37 PM

Also always view from the right hand side or bias the BV to the right a little bit, so that an SCT threaded accessory would tighten with gravity instead of loosen. I had a scare from that, too, and I suspect I’m not alone.

ds

That and I blue locktited my nosepiece on my diagonal.

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#11 cahanc

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 08:57 PM

I switched to Baader Click Locks on all my mounts and have never ever had a slip since installing them. Love them, very secure!! I have Denkmeier Super 27 with Denk 14mm EP's on Stellarvue 3" focuser and the click lock holds everything rock solid.


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#12 betacygni

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 11:24 PM

I’ve had the clicklock slip twice with my binoviewers, nearly causing disaster, I’m not a fan. What I’ve never had slip is old fashion set screws (no crazy smooth compression ring…), diagonal barrel marks be darned.

The most likely culprit is the interface between the visual back compression ring and the undercut on the diagonal. In some scope/diagonal combos this clamps down on the edge of this groove, rather then in the groove, setting up disaster. Another reason I hate compression rings, the wider surface area is much more likely to compress on this edge. I’d start by examining/measuring these two interfaces, and see how they are interfacing in a controlled environment (ie, with hands still on the diagonal!).

Edited by betacygni, 03 March 2024 - 11:26 PM.

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#13 tturtle

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 03:28 AM

The combination of an eq goto mount and a binoviewer is not something I am comfortable with since the binoviewer is so heavy and awkward balance wise. Your near disaster is one reason I prefer an alt az totally manual configuration where the BV rig is always oriented the same way as you move around the sky and, as noted, with the weight always tightening the connections.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 9EECE33E-D41B-4076-A7C4-7EF54B74B99C.jpeg

Edited by tturtle, 04 March 2024 - 03:37 AM.

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#14 Kim2010

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 07:18 AM

Also always view from the right hand side or bias the BV to the right a little bit, so that an SCT threaded accessory would tighten with gravity instead of loosen.  I had a scare from that, too, and I suspect I’m not alone.

 

ds

Ah very good idea! :)



#15 Kim2010

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 07:20 AM

The combination of an eq goto mount and a binoviewer is not something I am comfortable with since the binoviewer is so heavy and awkward balance wise. Your near disaster is one reason I prefer an alt az totally manual configuration where the BV rig is always oriented the same way as you move around the sky and, as noted, with the weight always tightening the connections.

I might use my 8SE mount in the future, but I guess that wouldn't hold up as well. Any good Alt-Az with goto that can hold this weight up?



#16 donniesoprano

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 07:23 AM

I’ve had the clicklock slip twice with my binoviewers, nearly causing disaster, I’m not a fan. What I’ve never had slip is old fashion set screws (no crazy smooth compression ring…), diagonal barrel marks be darned.

The most likely culprit is the interface between the visual back compression ring and the undercut on the diagonal. In some scope/diagonal combos this clamps down on the edge of this groove, rather then in the groove, setting up disaster. Another reason I hate compression rings, the wider surface area is much more likely to compress on this edge. I’d start by examining/measuring these two interfaces, and see how they are interfacing in a controlled environment (ie, with hands still on the diagonal!).

It is for this reason that I removed the rings from several components that I use.  The tapers and undercuts cause fits (pun) with compression rings….and the compression ring’s ONLY benefit that I’m aware of is that it prevents marks on the mating piece from setscrews.  I don’t care about setscrew marks on eyepieces, dovetails, etc.  I want things secure because I USE them instead of just coddle them indoors.

 

ds


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#17 Eddgie

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 08:37 AM

Like betacygni, I too have had the Clicklock let BVs slip and my own recommendation is to go with something with three clamping screws and my recommendation for binoviewers is this specific visual back. This is the only thing I trust for using a binoviewer on small SCT that is GEM mounted. 

 

https://www.astro-physics.com/adasct

 

Now there are three screws, and it is incumbent on the user to ensure that all three are tight, but the knobs are a good size to allow getting good pressure, and the three contact points provide the absolute best grip you will get on the nose of a 2" diagonal short of doing custom modifications. Astro Physics used to sell the Mark V, and they know what it takes to hold a binoviewer.

 

The 3.25" version for the C11 and C14 was likewise the only one I would recommend for these larger scopes. This is the best C11 and C14 visual back made, bar none. Note the large diameter of the thumb Screws. This might be an upgrade you can make to your existing diagonal if there is space to allow for the diagonal rotation due to the large diameter of the thumb knob.  

 

https://www.astro-physics.com/adasctlc

 

 

 

The problem with the 8SE is that it will only really accommodate the C8 or other small SCT and you don't get the ability to use it with your refractor. I would only recommend them if you can't afford anything better

 

While I have in the past recommended the Mini-Tower Pro, or even better, the Az Mount Pro (which is what I use today), these days, I would recommend getting a strain wave mount like the AM5 or the HAZ31. I often think about replacing my Az Mount Pro with an AM5, but I am waiting for more competition in the market.  The AM5 works in both GEM and Alt Az mode, so if you were going to image with it, this would be a better choice than the HAZ31, which might work on a wedge, but was intended specifically as Alt Az. These days, I would say that the AM5 would be my top choice, though I would lose some of the features of the Az Mount Pro.  With any of these mounts, unless your mount is a pier mount, you would need a semi-pier. 

 

I use the Az Mount Pro though, and I like.  I really like the built in rechargeable battery and wi-fi. While it is not super stable with my 130mm refractor, I find it to be good enough for my own needs.

 

                                                 

 

                                                     Photoline on mount Resize.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, if your budget allows, get a mount that can accommodate your refractor tool.  For any of these, you would likely need a semi pier for the refractor but all of these mounts are very light. Personally though, I would stretch the budget and save as necessary to get a strain wave mount. 


Edited by Eddgie, 04 March 2024 - 08:51 AM.

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#18 Kim2010

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 08:46 AM

Like betacygni, I too have had the Clicklock let BVs slip and my own recommendation is to go with something with three clamping screws and my specific recommendation for binoviewers is this specific visual back

 

https://www.astro-physics.com/adasct

 

The problem with the 8SE is that it will only really accommodate the C8 or other small SCT and you don't get the ability to use it with your refractor. I would only recommend them if you can't afford anything better

 

While I have in the past recommended the Mini-Tower Pro, or even better, the Az Mount Pro (which is what I use today), these days, I would recommend getting a strain wave mount like the AM5 or the HAZ31. I often think about replacing my Az Mount Pro with an AM5, but I am waiting for more competition in the market.  The AM5 works in both GEM and Alt Az mode, so if you were going to image with it, this would be a better choice than the HAZ31, which might work on a wedge, but was intended specifically as Alt Az. These days, I would say that the AM5 would be my top choice, though I would lose some of the features of the Az Mount Pro.   

 

I use the Az Mount Pro though, and I like.  I really like the built in rechargeable battery and wi-fi. While it is not super stable with my 130mm refractor, I find it to be good enough for my own needs.

 

                                                 

 

                                                     attachicon.gif Photoline on mount Resize.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, if your budget allows, get a mount that can accommodate your refractor tool.  For any of these, you would likely need a semi pier for the refractor but all of these mounts are very light. Personally though, I would stretch the budget and save as necessary to get a strain wave mount. 

I will probably see if I can get an AM5 in a year :)


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#19 denis0007dl

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 09:04 AM

OMG my heart skipped a beat!

 

So I have my brand new Maxbright II attached to my C8 using a 2" diagonal and the C8 2" SCT adapter. I am also using 2 Xcel LX 25mms. I am quite wary of the weight and so I am watching the scope while my C8 is doing a go-to slew. All of a sudden the BV went loose (OMG!!) and rotated and impacted the back plastic part of the EQ5 mount. I panicked and instead of immediately stopping the mount, I tinkered with the BV so that the mount can continue to slew. Fortunately, there wasn't any damage.

 

But how the heck do you prevent this from happening? The BV is so heavy that it is really prone to rotating because the screw/clamp on the 2" diagonal and even the C8 2" adapter can only hold weight up to a certain point. 

 

Anything I can do here?

Many users claims slip issues of their equipment including binoviewers out from ClickLock systems.

 

I personally dont like ClickLock systems at all (had also bad experiences at past several times), and instead ClickLock sytem Im using any 3 screws system with compression ring, and despite almost everday usage, have ZERO issues.

 

Last example is my ClickLock system from my APM 152mm APO telescope showed here

https://www.cloudyni...ake/?p=13288928

 

with custom build 3 screws with compression ring h showed here

https://www.cloudyni...ake/?p=13288934

 

If I were having SCT, I would definetly using some adapter like that like Eddgie linked here

https://www.astro-physics.com/adasct

 

or cheaper version here 

https://www.teleskop...-receptacle-240

 

or would find some adapter to directly connect binoviewer to SCT body!

 

Kind regards,

Denis


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#20 RAKing

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 09:28 AM

You can count me in the "ClickLock Doubters Club".  Not only have I had a couple of surprise releases over the years, but I also had one LOCK UP and fail to release.  I finally had to unhook my BV and use a strap wrench to unscrew the Clicklock from the scope.  It wasted an observing session, but I was finally able to get to the back of the ClickLock and break it loose.

 

For my scopes, I prefer the Ultra Low Profile Baader visual back.  Not only does it have three screws for tightening your diagonal, etc. - it's also thinner and doesn't eat up backfocus distance.

 

It's Baader Part# T2-32 2458196, and it has M60/68mm threads.

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

 

PS - EQ mounts are fine and I have been using them for decades.  But one tip might help - Always keep your hand close to the "payload" at the back of your scope when you are slewing to the next object.  This is NOT the time to turn your back to the scope and look at your notes, etc.  

 

TSA-120 Baader VB.JPG


Edited by RAKing, 04 March 2024 - 09:35 AM.

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#21 denis0007dl

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 09:33 AM

You can count me in the "ClickLock Doubters Club".  Not only have I had a couple of surprise releases over the years, but I also had one LOCK UP and fail to release.  I finally had to unhook my BV and use a strap wrench to unscrew the Clicklock from the scope.  It wasted an observing session, but I was finally able to get to the back of the ClickLock and break it loose.

 

For my scopes, I prefer the Ultra Low Profile Baader visual back. 

 

1. Not only does it have three screws for tightening your diagonal, etc. -

 

2. it's also thinner and doesn't eat up backfocus distance.

 

It's Baader Part# T2-32 2458196, and it has M60/68mm threads.

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

 

attachicon.gif TSA-120 Baader VB.JPG

THAT!


Edited by denis0007dl, 04 March 2024 - 09:39 AM.

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#22 denis0007dl

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 09:39 AM

You can count me in the "ClickLock Doubters Club".  Not only have I had a couple of surprise releases over the years, but I also had one LOCK UP and fail to release.  I finally had to unhook my BV and use a strap wrench to unscrew the Clicklock from the scope.  It wasted an observing session, but I was finally able to get to the back of the ClickLock and break it loose.

 

For my scopes, I prefer the Ultra Low Profile Baader visual back.  Not only does it have three screws for tightening your diagonal, etc. - it's also thinner and doesn't eat up backfocus distance.

 

It's Baader Part# T2-32 2458196, and it has M60/68mm threads.

 

Cheers,

 

Ron

 

PS - EQ mounts are fine and I have been using them for decades.  But one tip might help - Always keep your hand close to the "payload" at the back of your scope when you are slewing to the next object.  This is NOT the time to turn your back to the scope and look at your notes, etc.  

 

attachicon.gif TSA-120 Baader VB.JPG

I also love Baader Ultrashort 3 screws adapter which I recently applied to my Sharpstar 94EDPH, and here is MOD I made

 

https://www.cloudyni...mod/?p=13037307


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#23 Kim2010

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 10:19 AM

Does the Baader Part# T2-32 2458196 screw on the back of my C8 directly?



#24 denis0007dl

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 10:21 AM

That you will need to find what threads your SCT have, do idea if they differ from producton run and/or size....

#25 Kim2010

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Posted 04 March 2024 - 10:22 AM

I guess the TS one with 2 thumbscrews will do for me :)




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