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Matched Pairs... testing required?

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#1 lizzyrose

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 12:48 PM

Hi All,

   I'm just stepping into the world of binoviewing.  I don't have binoviewers yet but am planning to get a pair of panoptic 24mm for binoviewing once I do.  I'm considering either the William Optics or the Maxbright II.

 

The question is... In your experience, how important is it to get a matched pair of eyepieces?

 

Company 7 provides a service where, if you bought your binoviewers from them, they'll send eyepiece sets to get tested to ensure they're matched.  Sounds like a good idea but they don't always have the lowest prices.  Is this service worth the $130 difference in price?  

 

Thanks for your input!

 

Edit: The difference in price would be from purchasing the binoviewers from Company 7


Edited by lizzyrose, 11 March 2024 - 12:49 PM.


#2 betacygni

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 12:59 PM

It makes zero difference, I’ve never encountered eyepieces that needed to be matched, even buying singles of vastly different vintages.
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#3 donniesoprano

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 01:30 PM

I've never found 2 of the same eyepiece that didn't work fine in a binoviewer...sometimes even different brands.

 

If you're talking about TV eyepieces, I wouldn't worry at all.

 

As mentioned above, I've never had an issue with ~40 pairs of eyepieces over the years from very expensive to very, very cheap ones.  A vast majority of these were bought singly on the used marked and were of unknown vintages.

 

ds


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#4 vtornado

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 01:36 PM

I only use cheap plossls in my WO binoviewers.  Some are different brands.  The diopter adjustment is usually enough to work out any difference. A few pairs aren't then I don't seat one of them all the way.



#5 havasman

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 01:45 PM

As above. But if your OCD won't let you skip the worry then just buy a couple of reputable new ep's from an astro vendor and you'll get the advantage of the maker's manufacturing standard executed around the same time.

 

FWIW, I have had very fine results in my Denkmeier binos for Ha solar with Vixen SLV's and long focal length TAO's.



#6 Bob4BVM

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 01:52 PM

I've never found 2 of the same eyepiece that didn't work fine in a binoviewer...sometimes even different brands.

 

If you're talking about TV eyepieces, I wouldn't worry at all.

 

As mentioned above, I've never had an issue with ~40 pairs of eyepieces over the years from very expensive to very, very cheap ones.  A vast majority of these were bought singly on the used marked and were of unknown vintages.

 

ds

Me too, exactly ---/\

I am almost exclusively bino now, never had issue with even different brands of same FL.

Tried Pan 24s once, excellent choice, but IMHO the microscope pairs from Zeiss and Leica are head and shoulders above all the rest for sharp, delicious views.

These are my current favorites:

 

Leica brass 1,25 bbls 3.jpg

Leica brass 1,25 bbls.jpg


Edited by Bob4BVM, 11 March 2024 - 03:05 PM.

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#7 RAKing

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 03:54 PM

I am using eyepiece pairs that were made in different decades with no problems!  cool.gif

 

I have a few TV T6 Naglers that I bought in 2008.  And when I came back to binoviewing last year, I just bought new T6 Naglers to pair them up again.  Same with my old 24mm Panoptic.  No problems whatsoever.

 

Many years ago, I had some pairs of CZJ orthos that were made in different eras (1970s and 1990s, IIRC) and with different materials.  They were the same focal lengths, and I never had any issues using them.

 

You don't have to waste your money.  Just order up a pair of eyepieces and use them.

 

Ron


Edited by RAKing, 11 March 2024 - 03:57 PM.


#8 lizzyrose

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 04:52 PM

Well that pretty much answers my questions.  It's unanimous..  Doesn't matter and not worth worrying about.  Thanks everyone!


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#9 Kutno

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 06:52 PM

 

 

If you're talking about TV eyepieces, I wouldn't worry at all.

 

 

This part, I wholeheartedly agree with.



#10 Kutno

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 06:56 PM

 

 

I have a few TV T6 Naglers that I bought in 2008.  And when I came back to binoviewing last year, I just bought new T6 Naglers to pair them up again.  ... No problems whatsoever.

 

 

 

I absolutely agree with this, too!


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#11 Kutno

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 07:40 PM

Well that pretty much answers my questions.  It's unanimous..  Doesn't matter and not worth worrying about.  Thanks everyone!

 

Not sure about unanimous.  You do get what you pay for, which is why I wrote what I wrote in posts 9 & 10, above.  When testing the binoviewing waters, a while ago, I started with pairs of Celestron Omni Plossls in 20mm, 15mm, 12mm, and 9mm focal lengths.  If memory serves me well, I could not get the 20mm and 12mm pairs to cooperate with each other.  The 15mms worked when I spun one or both of them around in the binoviewer's eyepiece holders.  Interestingly, only the 9mm Omni Plossls worked together without issues.  Now, when you get to Tele Vue Nagler, Radian and DeLite eyepiece pairs I use, their tolerances are such that I just have to drop them into a binoviewer and violà!  No issues with Tele Vues.  You can rely on their quality. 



#12 Bob4BVM

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 07:52 PM

Well, there are certain EPs which just do not work well for certain people in bino mode.

TVs are not immune to this.

It's the physiology of the individual, that i have learned from sharing bino viewing with lots of different folks at gatherings.  I typically get maybe one in 15 or 20 where i have to change EPs to make it work for them.  Humans are funny that way in their variety smile.gif

 

Based on these experiences, I would say the 2 most universally-reliable pairs seem to be the APM 30UFF s and the Zeiss E-Pl 10x/25's.  Not surprising since both were designed with binocular vision in mind.


Edited by Bob4BVM, 11 March 2024 - 08:02 PM.

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#13 donniesoprano

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 08:11 PM

I strongly disagree that you need expensive eyepieces, and all my current eyepieces are ‘cheap’….quite cheap actually.  Cheap binoviewers are a whole different story…

 

Just as (or maybe more) important is the binoviewer collimation and the eyepiece holders.  For example, my WO bv’s don’t center the eyepieces and I can run into problems with eyepieces of any price, type, or length if the eyepiece holders are rotated certain ways.  My MBii’s have zero problems with any eyepiece rotation in the diopters.  AFAIC, the MBii’s have some of the best ep holders you can get right now.

 

BV’s are not basic, simple devices.  There’s a lot of variability in a BV setup and eyepieces are only one of those variables.  Plus your setup and my setup are very likely different, perhaps significantly.

 

I mentioned my experiences above.  I’ve never had problems merging any eyepiece longer than 6mm that I can blame on the eyepiece….it’s always been something else, usually the eyepiece holders. 6mm and lower just gets too challenging for me, regardless of the BV.  It’s been at least a decade since I had BV eyepieces shorter than 12mm since I find barlows and powerswitches to be much more convinent.

 

ds



#14 Bob4BVM

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 09:49 PM

I strongly disagree that you need expensive eyepieces, and all my current eyepieces are ‘cheap’….quite cheap actually.  Cheap binoviewers are a whole different story…

 

Just as (or maybe more) important is the binoviewer collimation and the eyepiece holders.  For example, my WO bv’s don’t center the eyepieces and I can run into problems with eyepieces of any price, type, or length if the eyepiece holders are rotated certain ways.  My MBii’s have zero problems with any eyepiece rotation in the diopters.  AFAIC, the MBii’s have some of the best ep holders you can get right now.

 

BV’s are not basic, simple devices.  There’s a lot of variability in a BV setup and eyepieces are only one of those variables.  Plus your setup and my setup are very likely different, perhaps significantly.

 

I mentioned my experiences above.  I’ve never had problems merging any eyepiece longer than 6mm that I can blame on the eyepiece….it’s always been something else, usually the eyepiece holders. 6mm and lower just gets too challenging for me, regardless of the BV.  It’s been at least a decade since I had BV eyepieces shorter than 12mm since I find barlows and powerswitches to be much more convinent.

 

ds

Right again, you absolutely don't need hi-$ EPs !

For years i  only had a few pairs of decent plossls for my BVers

One of my BV heads has a 1-2x magnifying front end and like a powerswitch is very convenient.
Fact is, the perceived FoV seems so much wider in bino-vision that 50* AFoV plossls are just fine.

 

Back when i was still using  BVers,  in my big dob I found a barlow helped as well. So my lowest FL pair is also 12mm. Below that merging becomes a headache in even a good BVer as the mag goes up merge becomes ever more critical.  There is that plus a few other shortcomings,  inherent to a device which attempts to split the image plane into two images, not simple and not easy to do well for sure.

 

At some point these the limitations to a BVer start to become more obvious. Not saying they are not worth using, to the contrary they open up a whole new observing experience which i feel no one should miss.  

 

There is this other path to two-eyed observing which pretty much eradicates all the usual limitations and drawbacks of a BVer, but judging by its rarity i'd have to say it may not be for everyone.

Having gone a long, long way down that rabbit hole i can attest it is a whole 'nother experience. ...Entirely.

 

CS

Bob


Edited by Bob4BVM, 11 March 2024 - 09:52 PM.


#15 RAKing

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Posted 12 March 2024 - 10:14 AM

 

 

Just as (or maybe more) important is the binoviewer collimation and the eyepiece holders.  For example, my WO bv’s don’t center the eyepieces and I can run into problems with eyepieces of any price, type, or length if the eyepiece holders are rotated certain ways.  My MBii’s have zero problems with any eyepiece rotation in the diopters.  AFAIC, the MBii’s have some of the best ep holders you can get right now.

 

 

ds

 

I agree with you regarding the MB II eyepiece holders.  I think Baader took what they started on the Mark V and refined them for the MB II.

 

I like the little levers on the eyepiece holders - and the little "nubs" on the diopter adjusters. They are better ergonomically and more "user friendly" than the plain barrels on my Mark V.

 

Ron


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#16 Highburymark

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Posted 16 March 2024 - 09:28 AM

Me too, exactly ---/\
I am almost exclusively bino now, never had issue with even different brands of same FL.
Tried Pan 24s once, excellent choice, but IMHO the microscope pairs from Zeiss and Leica are head and shoulders above all the rest for sharp, delicious views.
These are my current favorites:

Leica brass 1,25 bbls 3.jpg
Leica brass 1,25 bbls.jpg


Hi Bob - like your barrel adapters. Just wondering whether you made them yourself or bought them from somewhere? I have a couple of pairs of Leica microscope eyepieces with tape wrapped round the barrels for 1.25” binoviewer use. They work very nicely but it would be good to find a more permanent solution.
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#17 lizzyrose

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Posted 20 March 2024 - 08:15 PM

Interested as well

#18 Bob4BVM

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Posted 20 March 2024 - 09:21 PM

Hi Bob - like your barrel adapters. Just wondering whether you made them yourself or bought them from somewhere? I have a couple of pairs of Leica microscope eyepieces with tape wrapped round the barrels for 1.25” binoviewer use. They work very nicely but it would be good to find a more permanent solution.

I posted on the project a while back, probably somewhere in a thread on microscope EPs..

 

I have adapted a few pairs and other single u-scope EPs this way, been a long time since i used tape or 35mm film cans... so kludgy.

 

So, what you do is go to the plumbing section at a hdwr store, look for 1-1/4 inch sink drain extension tube. Not the chrome ones, keep looking til you find the brass ones, solid brass, not some plated junk. The exten tubes come in various lengths, buy the longest ones they have so you get more raw material. The tubes are exactly 1.25" OD, some have a little expanded section at one end, you won't be using that part.

 

Measure the length you need for the EP at hand. Cutting is best done on a lathe but you can use a hacksaw if you're careful, it's just easier to get a square end cut on a lathe. I actually chuck it up in my wood lathe, score it almost all the way thru, and then carefully finish the cut with a hacksaw

I suppose a large tubing cutter would work as well.

 

File ends to remove all burrs and square up as necessary. Polish brass with fine 400g wet/dry paper. Both those operations are immensely easier in a lathe.

 

Now you have your brass barrel cut, time to fit it to the EP. Tube ID is still just a smidge large for the u-scope EPs, what i do is 3 small strips of elec tape, vertically spaced evenly on the EP, then a bit of E6000 over the tape strips, the brass then slips snugly over for a perfectly concentric fit. E6000 is dry in a hour or two, good to go.

 

WIll see if i can find that other thread

 

Bob

 

here you go, see post# 261:

https://www.cloudyni...escopes/page-11


Edited by Bob4BVM, 20 March 2024 - 09:31 PM.

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#19 CrazyPanda

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Posted 21 March 2024 - 10:00 AM

The question is... In your experience, how important is it to get a matched pair of eyepieces?

 

Not important. Using zoom eyepieces I found I was able to accommodate a surprising FL gap even at the shorter focal lengths where the magnification difference would be greater. I can't remember the exact difference I was able to accommodate but it was enough that there is no way anyone should worry about matched pairs.


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#20 vahe

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Posted 23 March 2024 - 11:59 AM

If you want to buy a pair of eyepieces for binoviewing it is always safer to get them both at the same time and from the same place to avoid surprises.

.

As for surprises, that happened to me a long time ago. I had one Nagler T1 9mm, a year or two later when I bought my binoviewer I ordered a second Nagler T1 9mm. Surprise, surprise, one was volcano top style the other has deeply recessed eye lens, the problem: one was made in Japan and the other was from Taiwan.

Fortunately the place that I bought my 9mm agreed to take back one and give me a second identical version, I kept the Taiwan version.

.

Vahe



#21 Vansh

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Posted 23 March 2024 - 09:34 PM

For my binoviewer I use the following eyepieces interchangeably:

 

* Super Plossl 25mm

* Orion Sirius Plossl 25mm

* Meade MA 26mm

 

Yes, the MA 26mm seems to be pretty much the same as the 25mm's. (In direct measurement, by putting them in the same telescope and taking pictures of a faraway object, they measured within 2% of each other, basically within the measurement error, as opposed to the expected 4% difference.) My eyes can't tell the difference between them. So yeah, I think as long as they're reasonably similar it'll be alright.



#22 luxo II

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Posted 04 April 2024 - 10:46 PM

The question is... In your experience, how important is it to get a matched pair of eyepieces?

IMHO this is not important at all - you're assuming the optical parameters of your two eyes are identical. In reality most people have significant differences between their eyes, yet their brain manages to compensate and fuse the images from the two. I'd suggest for many  it might actually be better if the eyepieces aren't matched and you figure out which one works best with each eye.

 

Mine are so different with a patch over 1 eye and looking at a target, then repeat with the other eye, the image scale is quite distinctly different, implying their focal lengths differ, and in a binoviewer I'd use a 25mm for the left eye and a 20mm for the right.


Edited by luxo II, 05 April 2024 - 06:53 PM.


#23 cahanc

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Posted 12 April 2024 - 05:45 PM

I have never had a problem with eyepieces made in different years or bought at different times.  I wouldn't think the $130- would be worth it, better spent on new eyepiece?



#24 niallk

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Posted 19 April 2024 - 06:32 PM

... not important. Just 2 eps of the same make + model. Be grand....

#25 faackanders2

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Posted 20 April 2024 - 06:15 PM

IMHO this is not important at all - you're assuming the optical parameters of your two eyes are identical. In reality most people have significant differences between their eyes, yet their brain manages to compensate and fuse the images from the two. I'd suggest for many  it might actually be better if the eyepieces aren't matched and you figure out which one works best with each eye.

 

Mine are so different with a patch over 1 eye and looking at a target, then repeat with the other eye, the image scale is quite distinctly different, implying their focal lengths differ, and in a binoviewer I'd use a 25mm for the left eye and a 20mm for the right.

different magnifications for each eye may give you a headache?




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