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First "Space Night" at my son's school

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#1 Domdron

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Posted 15 March 2024 - 04:30 AM

Wednesday, my wife and I ran the first "Space Night" at my son's primary school in Kikuyu, Kenya. 30 families RSVPed, and I hoped to show first the Moon and then Jupiter before they set; then, for those stying longer, Orion Nebula. We had kept the event free because we wanted to make it as accessible as possible.
 
Before we started, my wife would do a little lesson in a classroom with a presentation about the telescope, how to use it, and a pre-recorded screencast using Stellarium to preview what we'd see. She also included a little quiz about planet sizes (Earth, Jupiter and Neptune) and distances from the sun, if we consider a model with the sun being of 1m diameter.
 
To show Jupiter without too much hassle, I had brought my tracking EQ mount, instead of the manual table-top that the 150p comes with. Additionally, I had set up 10x50 binos on a tripod for people to also view the Moon through it to compare, and also to show what one of the most affordable ways to get into the hobby looks like -- 10x50s and tripods are available locally quite easily, while most telescopes need to be imported, at usually significantly higher cost than in the West.
 
Later, once it got dark enough, we would use the binos to view e.g. the Pleiades, while others were looking through the scope at Jupiter.
 
So far the plan...
 
In the end, well more than 100 people turned out, because many families brought also all the siblings of the school's students. In this pic, only the first group is shown:
 
School "Space Night"
 
Despite having started early, while it was still dusk, we had to rush quite a bit to at least get everybody to see the Moon. We used a 16mm/82° eye piece for that.
 
The time-challenge was compounded by kids running across the field where we had connected several power extensions to the mount, often tripping over a cable and disconnecting the mount. Which meant reconnecting the cable, waiting for the mount's WiFI Dongle to come online again, reconnecting my phone, restarting tracking, possibly re-centering the Moon. This process to maybe 0.5-1 minute each time, and it happened probably 20 times or so.
 
Once we were through with that at around 8pm, most people had already left (small kids on a weekday...)
 
However, about 10-15 families still got some views of Jupiter, having added a 3x Barlow to the 16mm, and some people could still view the Pleiades through the binos.
 
And I have to say, despite all the stress caused by the big numbers and the frequent disconnects, the experience was exhilarating! Especially hearing some kids, being so amazed to see the Moon so clearly, with craters and mountains, shouting out avidly.
 
Some take-aways for next time:
  • The lesson was very well-received, especially the quiz whose answers were very surprising to most.
  • We should limit the number of people and requiring families to RSVP for all members.
  • Ensure beforehand that a long-enough single power extension is provided and is properly secured!
  • Also instead of inviting the whole school, probably do it by class, so that the "main attendees", the school kids, are of similar age and knowledge, and adjust the lesson and viewed objects accordingly.
  • Possibly work with others to bring more telescopes.
  • I had brought some led string lights to delimit the telescope area which would be off-limits except for the ones currently viewing. Next time bring red and dimmable ones for later, should we actually manage to look at DSOs.
 

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#2 mdowns

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Posted 15 March 2024 - 09:27 AM

Bravo,well done!


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#3 Domdron

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Posted 15 March 2024 - 09:51 AM

Bravo,well done!


Thank you ☺️

#4 Nankins

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Posted 15 March 2024 - 09:09 PM

Sounds like you had a lot of fun!  Kids can be both fun and hard to work with.


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#5 Domdron

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Posted 15 March 2024 - 11:21 PM

Sounds like you had a lot of fun!  Kids can be both fun and hard to work with.

100% on both points!


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#6 astrohamp

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Posted 16 March 2024 - 02:09 PM

Your preparation, presentations, and goals were excellent, commendable, and far reaching.  I am happy to read about enthusiastic and wowed participants. Thanks for the report.

 

Limiting attendance is a tough decision and you are among many who know the difficulties and disappointments this implies.

 

My last outreach had one youngling crawl though my cable management for viewing access despite my barriers.  Red Led lights to highlight instruments/table legs still wasn't enough, or bright enough.

 

Perhaps you can use the white light string to highlight the power cord, and a red one to 'delimit the scope area". 

 

If I may suggest a tighter limit circle. This allows those in the queue closest to being next up for observing to view and overhear what is going on at the telescope.  Your voice repetition of at scope 'learning' is useful and a trained, memorized, respectful teaching monologue spoken to each observer gives them their special attention.  I find being seated at eye level with the new observer and eyepiece height chosen for their height a good approach.  This does however put taller folks less at ease, having to stoop or kneel. Else I use a two step platform stool with high grab hoop.

 

Great effort and good show.  More hosts and scopes can be a good thing.


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#7 Domdron

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Posted 18 March 2024 - 01:12 AM

 

 

Your preparation, presentations, and goals were excellent, commendable, and far reaching.  I am happy to read about enthusiastic and wowed participants. Thanks for the report.

 

Limiting attendance is a tough decision and you are among many who know the difficulties and disappointments this implies.

 

My last outreach had one youngling crawl though my cable management for viewing access despite my barriers.  Red Led lights to highlight instruments/table legs still wasn't enough, or bright enough.

 

Perhaps you can use the white light string to highlight the power cord, and a red one to 'delimit the scope area". 

 

If I may suggest a tighter limit circle. This allows those in the queue closest to being next up for observing to view and overhear what is going on at the telescope.  Your voice repetition of at scope 'learning' is useful and a trained, memorized, respectful teaching monologue spoken to each observer gives them their special attention.  I find being seated at eye level with the new observer and eyepiece height chosen for their height a good approach.  This does however put taller folks less at ease, having to stoop or kneel. Else I use a two step platform stool with high grab hoop.

 

Great effort and good show.  More hosts and scopes can be a good thing.

Thank you for the suggestions, they're well taken. Actually we don't think of really limiting attendance, but spreading it over time; i.e. instead of having the whole primary school come at one night, spreading it out over several. Probably divided by grades, ie.e. grade 1, then 2, etc.

 

That would also allow to make the presentation and viewed objects more specifically adapted for the respective age.

 

We could also involve one of the few local astronomy orgs to bring another telescope; however that would come at a cost, and we wouldn't be able to keep it free.

 

OTOH, if we do the splitting by classes, and so multiply our time and effort running this, I might also not want to keep it free. Or maybe I could put a tipping jar and make contributions voluntary. 

 

Anyway, we'll figure something out.



#8 Domdron

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Posted 18 March 2024 - 01:18 AM

I had purposefully turned the scope so that the eye piece is easily reachable by the smaller kids by the way. It meant the taller ones and adults had to bend, but my tube rings aren't (yet) suited for adjusting very often -- just had them made locally, the locking mechanism, just a bolt and nut, can surely be improved.


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#9 Mike G.

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Posted 18 March 2024 - 07:54 AM

Great Job!  I do outreach frequently with our club and kids will definitely trip over cords, disconnect the electronics and pull scopes out of alignment (besides the ones that despite being told not to touch the scope, walk up and immediately grab the EP and try to move it to their eye).  For these reasons, I use batteries to power scopes and keep cords attached to tripod legs so they are not able to be tripped over.  Also, for scopes with drives, I leave the clutches a bit loose so someone grabbing it will move the scope, but not the mount.  Short stepladders with a top rail for a handhold work better than just a step stool - and an adult present to help the youngster to step up and attach his hands to the handrail instead of the scope. I don't think there is any known solution to keep kids from running around, we see that year after year. But it is always great fun to hear the response to someone seeing the Moon, Saturn or Jupiter for the first time.  I hope you continue to enjoy the outreach events!


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#10 Domdron

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Posted 18 March 2024 - 09:07 AM

Great Job! I do outreach frequently with our club and kids will definitely trip over cords, disconnect the electronics and pull scopes out of alignment (besides the ones that despite being told not to touch the scope, walk up and immediately grab the EP and try to move it to their eye). For these reasons, I use batteries to power scopes and keep cords attached to tripod legs so they are not able to be tripped over. Also, for scopes with drives, I leave the clutches a bit loose so someone grabbing it will move the scope, but not the mount. Short stepladders with a top rail for a handhold work better than just a step stool - and an adult present to help the youngster to step up and attach his hands to the handrail instead of the scope. I don't think there is any known solution to keep kids from running around, we see that year after year. But it is always great fun to hear the response to someone seeing the Moon, Saturn or Jupiter for the first time. I hope you continue to enjoy the outreach events!


No question that kids will keep running around 😁The idea is to make the setup a bit more robust, some of the connections came apart really easily.

#11 Domdron

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Posted 14 August 2024 - 08:46 AM

Slight update here: the kids had created some artwork in the following term, which was presented at an "art market" later. Some of them were inspired by the above event, and themed their paintings accordingly: 
 

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#12 maroubra_boy

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Posted 14 August 2024 - 04:23 PM

Congratulations on your successful astro night, Domdron! laugh.gif

 

Like others here, I too love doing outreach with kids.  There are many good suggestions that have been made.  A couple I would reinforce are:

 

* Use of a short step ladder (no more than three steps) but with a tall handrail.  You then ask the kids, and adults, to hold on to the handrail instead of the scope.  It is tricky to have people not grab at the eyepiece when they have no experience.  It is an understandable reflex too.  The trick is not to sound defensive or like you are scolding them.  And even if you do your "pre-scope" session, people will forget to not grab at the scope.  One way I do things is for everyone who first comes up to the scope, I quietly say to them "Don't grab at the scope but hold on to the handrail - your heart beat will make the telescope shake!".  It usually is enough.  Some people will then cautiously reach up to touch the eyepiece but quickly pull their hand away when they see the image shake.  This way you are disguising an instruction as tip that will improve the quality of their experience :)

 

The pics below show both a poor step ladder choice and a good one.  In the first one, you can see that the little kid is only just touching the handrail.  Once the telescope is pointed any higher the child will no longer be able to hold on to the hand rail.

 

* See if you can use batteries and not power cords.  Just too dangerous, not so much for your gear but more because it is a tripping hazard at night.  You shouldn't be asking people to watch out for a trip hazard at night.  If it is mains power that you require, then use a suitable inverter.  A modest 100W inverter would be all you need.  Something I also had to do.

 

SAFETY FIRST all the time.  Do all you can to keep your guests safe.  Sometimes it requires someone to point out some aspects from their experience.  You might think this is asking too much from you, but believe it or not it does help you simplify things and keeps YOU safe and your gear.

 

Alex.

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Edited by maroubra_boy, 14 August 2024 - 04:42 PM.

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#13 Domdron

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Posted 14 August 2024 - 04:41 PM

Thanks for the kind words and thoughts Alex. I don’t need a ladder for my scope as it’s small enough, my mount has a low profile because it’s a pier on flat (but wide) feet, and the scope is held by tube rings so it can be turned into a comfortable position.

And while a tripping hazard might be a problem in other settings, here this wasn’t a big deal. We were on the soft grass of the school’s sports field, where all those kids are falling all the time in the heat of their soccer or other games 😁

And about the eye piece, when doing slightly fewer numbers of people and everyone has more time, I think it’s worth letting them touch the eye piece, maybe try to optimise focus, and just get a literal feel for it. One of my goals is not only to show them sights, but also to let them really experience the telescope.

But those issues surely are worthy of careful consideration, and I appreciate your takes on them!

Edited by Domdron, 14 August 2024 - 04:44 PM.

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#14 maroubra_boy

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Posted 14 August 2024 - 08:16 PM

Domdron,

 

Most certainly have your guests focus the scope for their own eyes!  YES, YES, YES!

 

This is really important!  I always ask if the image is in focus for them and show them how to adjust the focus for themselves.  That is something I feel is really important.  It is stupid and arrogant of anyone to to think that an imaged focused to their own eyes is all that is required for anyone else to view through their scope.  These same people wouldn't accept it for themselves and would focus whatever scope they look through, but somehow they won't allow anyone to focus their scope!  I cannot understand this one.  This is something that has been discussed in this forum before and believe it or not there are several people here on CN who will not allow anyone to focus the scope!

 

There will be people, kids and adults, who are too shy or feel that they might damage the telescope if they try to focus.  We cannot help that.  We can only speak quietly to them and encourage them.

 

Little kids in particular can find it difficult to look into an eyepiece.  It is not something that we do in our everyday experiences.  For kids and adults that struggle to look into the eyepiece, I say "Look into the little glass window" - I am surprised at how effective this is at having people adjust their posture and head to look square on into the eyepiece laugh.gif  Some little kids still struggle.  If it is something bright we are looking at like the Moon or a planet, I ask the child's parents if I can touch the child's head to help position them so I can see the image of the Moon on the child's pupil.  The Moon and planets are bright enough to allow this to happen.

 

My comment about not touching the scope is entirely about the reflex reaction to grabbing at the scope, not about focusing!  I had wanted to mention focusing in my first post here but forgot in making that post.

 

The tripping hazard isn't about the kids getting hurt.  It is about an adult tripping and breaking a hip in the fall.  I saw an adult trip over a stone just poking out of the ground, an elderly man, and they struck their head on the ground and had blood pouring down their face.  His family had to take him to hospital.  It isn't acceptable for a child to be tripped and hurt at any time either.  Especially when it is because of us, and not a football.  Plus it is a mains electrical cable - it is not meant to be walked on or damaged.

 

Safety first, my friend smile.gif  It doesn't take away from the experience.  On the contrary, if there is no risk to be mindful of as a guest then their experience will be even better.


Edited by maroubra_boy, 14 August 2024 - 08:16 PM.

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#15 Domdron

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Posted 15 August 2024 - 02:26 AM

Domdron,

 

Most certainly have your guests focus the scope for their own eyes!  YES, YES, YES!

 

This is really important!  I always ask if the image is in focus for them and show them how to adjust the focus for themselves.  That is something I feel is really important.  It is stupid and arrogant of anyone to to think that an imaged focused to their own eyes is all that is required for anyone else to view through their scope.  These same people wouldn't accept it for themselves and would focus whatever scope they look through, but somehow they won't allow anyone to focus their scope!  I cannot understand this one.  This is something that has been discussed in this forum before and believe it or not there are several people here on CN who will not allow anyone to focus the scope!

 

There will be people, kids and adults, who are too shy or feel that they might damage the telescope if they try to focus.  We cannot help that.  We can only speak quietly to them and encourage them.

 

Little kids in particular can find it difficult to look into an eyepiece.  It is not something that we do in our everyday experiences.  For kids and adults that struggle to look into the eyepiece, I say "Look into the little glass window" - I am surprised at how effective this is at having people adjust their posture and head to look square on into the eyepiece laugh.gif  Some little kids still struggle.  If it is something bright we are looking at like the Moon or a planet, I ask the child's parents if I can touch the child's head to help position them so I can see the image of the Moon on the child's pupil.  The Moon and planets are bright enough to allow this to happen.

This is a great idea, will try that next time, thanks!

 

My comment about not touching the scope is entirely about the reflex reaction to grabbing at the scope, not about focusing!  I had wanted to mention focusing in my first post here but forgot in making that post.

The tripping hazard isn't about the kids getting hurt.  It is about an adult tripping and breaking a hip in the fall.  I saw an adult trip over a stone just poking out of the ground, an elderly man, and they struck their head on the ground and had blood pouring down their face.  His family had to take him to hospital.  It isn't acceptable for a child to be tripped and hurt at any time either.  Especially when it is because of us, and not a football.  Plus it is a mains electrical cable - it is not meant to be walked on or damaged.

Safety first, my friend smile.gif  It doesn't take away from the experience.  On the contrary, if there is no risk to be mindful of as a guest then their experience will be even better.

 

Well, here in Kenya, there are so many safety hazards of all kinds that this would honestly be my least worry lol.gifbawling.gif

It's much more likely to be involved in an accident on the way to or from the school, sadly.

 

Also the some of those cable connections are so loose that any slight trip would disconnect them rather make the person trip (which has happened numerous times, as mentioned above).


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#16 epee

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Posted 23 August 2024 - 07:52 AM

If your mount uses 12-volt DC switching to battery power you can prevent at least most of the disconnections. I like the Talentcell for capacity and lack of bulk. It can be velcroed to the mount.

https://www.amazon.c...24417388&sr=8-4

 

I've also had kids and adults kick my mount stepping up to get a look; so I spend most of my time with one hand on the mount and leaning on it.


Edited by epee, 23 August 2024 - 07:55 AM.

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#17 gfamily

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Posted 23 August 2024 - 08:08 AM

Thanks for the kind words and thoughts Alex. I don’t need a ladder for my scope as it’s small enough, my mount has a low profile because it’s a pier on flat (but wide) feet, and the scope is held by tube rings so it can be turned into a comfortable position.

In the outreach we've done at our local schools and scouts/guides groups, we've placed a school chair at the eyepiece facing away from the telescope.
That way, the children kneel on the seat, with their hands on the back of the chair. This gives them stability without feeling they need to grab the eyepiece.
It also helps shorter children to be able to look down into the eyepiece (mostly we take our small refractor and our medium Mak, so both would be used with a diagonal).
I've recently resurrected a 45° erecting diagonal so I'll try that next time we're asked out.

Edited by gfamily, 23 August 2024 - 08:09 AM.

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#18 Domdron

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Posted 23 August 2024 - 10:35 PM

If your mount uses 12-volt DC switching to battery power you can prevent at least most of the disconnections. I like the Talentcell for capacity and lack of bulk. It can be velcroed to the mount.
https://www.amazon.c...24417388&sr=8-4

I've also had kids and adults kick my mount stepping up to get a look; so I spend most of my time with one hand on the mount and leaning on it.

Yeah using a battery can solve the tripping, and in fact I’ve just gotten a small solar setup. The battery is a 50AH AGM one, so not quite so sleek as the model you linked. But such is mostly not available here in Kenya, or only at ridiculous prices. If ordering from abroad, most don’t ship to here in the first place (like the one you linked), or again at very high cost.

Edited by Domdron, 23 August 2024 - 10:35 PM.


#19 Domdron

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Posted 23 August 2024 - 10:40 PM

In the outreach we've done at our local schools and scouts/guides groups, we've placed a school chair at the eyepiece facing away from the telescope.
That way, the children kneel on the seat, with their hands on the back of the chair. This gives them stability without feeling they need to grab the eyepiece.
It also helps shorter children to be able to look down into the eyepiece (mostly we take our small refractor and our medium Mak, so both would be used with a diagonal).
I've recently resurrected a 45° erecting diagonal so I'll try that next time we're asked out.


Yes that works well, I’ve done this at our last session with the neighbour’s kids. But as mentioned, I don’t actually have a problem with them touching the eye piece, eg to try to optimise focus. But yes they shouldn’t need to touch it for stability.

#20 HenrySpence

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Posted 11 September 2024 - 01:01 PM

Your preparation, presentations, and goals were excellent, commendable, and far reaching.  I am happy to read about enthusiastic and wowed participants. Thanks for the report.

 

Limiting attendance is a tough decision and you are among many who know the difficulties and disappointments this implies.

 

My last outreach had one youngling crawl though my cable management for viewing access despite my barriers.  Red Led lights to highlight instruments/table legs still wasn't enough, or bright enough.

 

Perhaps you can use the white light string to highlight the power cord, and a red one to 'delimit the scope area". 

 

If I may suggest a tighter limit circle. This allows those in the queue closest to being next up for observing to view and overhear what is going on at the telescope.  Your voice repetition of at scope 'learning' is useful and a trained, memorized, respectful teaching monologue spoken to each observer gives them their special attention.  I find being seated at eye level with the new observer and eyepiece height chosen for their height a good approach.  This does however put taller folks less at ease, having to stoop or kneel. Else I use a two step platform stool with high grab hoop.

 

Great effort and good show.  More hosts and scopes can be a good thing.

Yes, I agree with you. But in general it is nice to hear that people organize such things. Nowadays it is rare and parents usually do not pay attention to their children. They just give them a phone and go about their business. The child does not develop and then, like many others, they will look for writing services for school, like https://ca.edubirdie.com/ or others. I always support such events. It is fun and useful. Moreover, as many as 30 families came - just wow. I would have come too if I could.


Edited by HenrySpence, 11 September 2024 - 01:04 PM.

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#21 Domdron

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Posted 11 September 2024 - 03:23 PM

Thank you Henry for the nice words. We’re definitely going to do this again, with learnings applied, when the weather gets a bit more reliable around here.

#22 Chris K

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Posted 18 September 2024 - 07:31 PM

Thanks for the kind words and thoughts Alex. I don’t need a ladder for my scope as it’s small enough, my mount has a low profile because it’s a pier on flat (but wide) feet, and the scope is held by tube rings so it can be turned into a comfortable position.

And while a tripping hazard might be a problem in other settings, here this wasn’t a big deal. We were on the soft grass of the school’s sports field, where all those kids are falling all the time in the heat of their soccer or other games

And about the eye piece, when doing slightly fewer numbers of people and everyone has more time, I think it’s worth letting them touch the eye piece, maybe try to optimise focus, and just get a literal feel for it. One of my goals is not only to show them sights, but also to let them really experience the telescope.

But those issues surely are worthy of careful consideration, and I appreciate your takes on them!

I love the whole story. Isn't it all worth it when a young person gasps at what they see in the eyepiece?

 

I'm of the same frame of mind. When our club does outreach I bring a small refractor (72 or 60) for multiple reasons. They're easy to point. And therefore when each person takes a turn I make have them start from scratch. I point the scope away from the moon or planet. Then I ask them to find the red dot in the finder. Then I tell them to grab the handle and put the red dot onto the target. Then I say, "now look in the eyepiece". Sometimes I even defocus for the older kids or adults.

 

Time and again they say "I see it!" or "I did it!". To which I say congratulations, now you know how to use a telescope. 

 

I really want them to go home and say "I used a telescope" or "I worked a telescope". Take away the intimidation and make them realize it's in reach.

 

About then I ask them to describe what they see. Especially when it's Jupiter since I know the moons are within the view.

 

When they're done, I ask them if they have binoculars in the back of their closet or if they can borrow them from someone because binoculars are two telescopes in your hands and you can point them at the moon any day or night. (but never the sun)

 

Keep up the great work, it's worthwhile. For International Observe the Moon Night, we also gave out certificates of completion. Could be a nice thing for the kids.


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#23 Domdron

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Posted 18 September 2024 - 10:28 PM

Thanks Chris, good idea with the small refractor. Unfortunately the mentioned Newtonian and binoculars are everything I have so far, but I could probably collaborate with others who have such.

The certificates are also nice; I thought of taking a phone pic of the observed object, with not too much brightening, so that it somewhat resembles the view (ie like a sketch, but I’m no good at that), and sending them out later (digitally or printed, depending on the group size and the kids’ access to devices).
  • Chris K likes this

#24 No N in collimation

No N in collimation

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Posted 21 September 2024 - 12:52 AM

It's also an extremely poor choice of which step to stand on. If she were one rung lower she wouldn't have to bend her knees like that. 

 

 

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