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Absolutely unbelievable -- Apple iPhone etc.

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#51 Tom T

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 03:34 PM

IMO, tying yourself into a single vendor/reseller is a risky business. Although from a world wide stand point Cingular is probably one of the best.

Also, IMO, until someone can touch actual working product - it's vapor. But, Macworld is indeed a good place to debut it. OTOH, I've seen things at CES and E3 that never made it any further... (I do think this will make it to market, let me be clear on that however...)

Will it sell - well, bluntly, probably not to me (and I suspect to others) unless some of those negatives and concerns are addressed.

Of course, it's 2007, and I still haven't bothered to hop on the ipod bandwagon either. I'm not particularly fond of proprietary devices and software - unless they provide functionality I can't get elsewhere, or are at a lower cost point. Granted, the Ipod has come a long way, but they lost me at the outset and never got me back. There are other devices that play my music files just fine. But then again, ipods certainly are the kleenex (ie name brand) of the industry.

You are absolutely correct - 10 million units in a year and a half is nothing. With the hype around this product (and cell phones in general), I imagine they will make that in the first year.

OTOH, I strongly doubt companies like Sony-Ericsson, motorola and Nokia are going to be sitting back doing nothing this whole time. One of the reasons the Ipod was a success because they went into a market with few players. And what players there were, had little experience.

This is a totally different story. It will be interesting to watch how it plays out.

Apple TV is a more interesting product to me, but I already have a Tivo. Heck, I already have an MP3 player, a digital camera and several devices capable of browsing the internet too.

:shrug:

I guess for me, its coming back to the fact that even Jobs said the killer app was going to be; making phone calls. I already have a device that makes phone calls just fine. Why do I need to lay out $600 and $60 dollars a month for that? Now if I could get it for $250, and $30 bucks a month - hey then sign me up....

I don't mean to rain on peoples parades but after some additional thought, I just honestly don't understand why people are so taken with this device.... I mean, yeah, it's cool - but revolutionary? No. Evolutionary - maybe.

Guess I've officially hit old fogie.

T

#52 Tom T

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 03:40 PM

The interface, integration, and execution are already way beyond what the other have (or will have) for some time to come.


It looks slick. But until it hits the market, :shrug:

Speaking of batteries, this is another aspect alone that is such a big step forward over the others. With the current dev's 1 hour on a charge is about as good as it gets. That's useless. The claims are 5 hours with this thing and I have no reason to doubt that strongly given past experience with their stuff. But even if it only goes 2.5hrs, that's a big advancement over the current ones I'm using.


FWIW, I easily 5+ hours of continuous browsing on my nokia n770 (and BTW - I'm so impressed with it, I'm giving serious thought to getting the just released upgrade the n800) - so while I don't work in the phone industry, 5 hours of connectivity doesn't really impress me all that much.

I do wonder how easy the battery is to replace when it finally dies tho...

T

#53 Tom T

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 07:23 PM

hmmm

http://news.bbc.co.u...ess/6250511.stm

One would have thought they would have had that covered...

#54 Tom L

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 08:06 PM

We can only imagine(or not) what the next generation of iphone will be.


Well, I'll bet it atleast has a GPS receiver in it to name just one...

#55 Tom L

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 08:30 PM

Tom, Cisco is the Silicon Valley gorilla...they'll win this and make Apple look stupid doing so...but they'll also make themselves look stupid. Too bad they didn't think of it...

Here's the lesson learned from Microsoft, don't buy the first 3 revisions of the iPhone...wait until the 3rd revision...and even then, give them 3 months to fix it...then you'll start to see a product emerge that will continue to define the industry for the next 20 years.

And for those that decided to take my MS comment and try to run with it...thank them for creating the "personal computing" industry next time you see them. I actually like to thank Lotus 1-2-3 for creating an application that was actually usable on a PC (IBM compatible or not) with DOS 1.0 and useful and helpful in my day-to-day job back in the early 80's.

This thread is about innovation...it comes in many different shapes and forms. Innovation normally comes from one person...put a bureaucracy behind that person and you see what happens (MS of the 90's)...it also almost killed Apple because they were thinking inside the box (we all remember the "NeXT" computer!). The iPhone may fall flat on it's face but atleast it is pushing the technological envelope....you think the 2-finger touch screen is passe? Try to program it!

#56 llanitedave

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 11:15 PM

It doesn't look to me like Cisco vs Apple is going to be a problem in the long run. Apple knows they need to pay, and is willing to pay. Cisco is willing to be paid. It's just a matter of timing and amount. Jobs didn't want to wait for all the legalities in order to make the announcement. Cisco didn't want to make it look as if they're a pushover.

They'll work it out. It will never go to trial.

#57 StarWars

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 11:24 PM




Cisco is suing Apple Inc. over iPhone trademark violations... :o

Will the iPhone fade away like the Newton?? :bawling:

http://www.engadget....gement-ruh-roh/

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#58 basel10

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 07:19 AM



Cisco is suing Apple Inc. over iPhone trademark violations... :o

Will the iPhone fade away like the Newton?? :bawling:

http://www.engadget....gement-ruh-roh/


One can only hope

#59 ClownFish

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 07:46 AM

"One can only hope "

Why is that? Is there something wrong with competition?

CF

#60 Tom T

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 09:57 AM

This thread is about innovation...it comes in many different shapes and forms. Innovation normally comes from one person...put a bureaucracy behind that person and you see what happens (MS of the 90's)...it also almost killed Apple because they were thinking inside the box (we all remember the "NeXT" computer!). The iPhone may fall flat on it's face but atleast it is pushing the technological envelope....you think the 2-finger touch screen is passe? Try to program it!


Innovation, while important, isn't the end all be all. It's only part of the process.

IMO, a simple "Build it and they will come" approach has issues in practice.

T

#61 Tom T

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 10:03 AM

Can it be a clone if it's announced first? The LG KE850 bears a resemblance to "The device which might be known as iPhone".

It will be interesting to see the exact specs on this one.

#62 ClownFish

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 10:42 AM

The image only shows the dialer, and clock. I would want to see it's messaging and certainly it's web surfing ability before I'd make a comparison. It certainly would not have the touchy-feely of the new "iPhone" multi-touch display. Like you, I would like to see more though.

CF

#63 azsrr

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 03:28 PM


Ok Tom we are revoking your invitation to the party at Steve Jobs' house.

#64 Tom T

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 06:06 PM

:lol:


#65 Tom T

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:32 AM

No third party software.

So much for an astro program... (and other things...)
DOH!!!

Well that effectively curbed any lingering lust I had for this thing...


#66 ClownFish

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 04:36 AM

I'm starting to agree. While I apreciate how the strict control of software greatly stabilizes the hardware (remember the first Mac back in 1986 - they were as stable as a rock!), I now want expandability and adaptability, and this thing is just a tad too restricted for my tastes. I'll stick with an iPod and bare-bones cell phone for now. Actually I have so far resisted the cell-phone craze and do not have one, so just my iPod will do for now.

David Pogue has a list of other things this new phone will not do.. it's not nice.

You can find it here.

CF

#67 hfoster

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 07:13 AM

No third party software.

So much for an astro program... (and other things...)
DOH!!!

Well that effectively curbed any lingering lust I had for this thing...


:rant: Tight control is common in the cell phone industry. I have a very capable Motorola that my carrier has defeatured! It has bluetooth, yet I can't transfer pictures to my computer, or transfer mp3s from the computer, wirelessly. To transfer an mp3 I have to take the teeny transflash card out of the phone, put it in an SD adapter, put that in a USB adapter, plug that in and then copy the file to it. The process is just as clunky in reverse for uploading pictures. Of course I could buy music or videos or transfer my pictures to my computer, over their network for a fee. The business model is to lock the user into using the software and data transfer capabilities of the carrier and charge them for doing so. Darn capitalism!

Henrietta

#68 Tom T

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 09:07 AM

:rant: Tight control is common in the cell phone industry.


Huh?

I'm confused.

I have at least a *dozen* third party programs programs loaded on my low end Sony Ericsson (which I use as a simple pre-loaded phone through Cell One - I detest monthly payments). The Palm Treos run Palm OS or Windows Moble, and will run anything available for those platforms. (A buddy has astromist on his.)

I'm with Peter. At this point I'm looking for expandability and adaptability. I'd rather just pop for the Nokia n800 (no monthly fees), or a new PDA and keep my current cell. (I wish palm would come out with a new machine...)

T

#69 Tom T

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 09:52 AM

I'm starting to agree. While I apreciate how the strict control of software greatly stabilizes the hardware (remember the first Mac back in 1986 - they were as stable as a rock!), I now want expandability and adaptability, and this thing is just a tad too restricted for my tastes. I'll stick with an iPod and bare-bones cell phone for now. Actually I have so far resisted the cell-phone craze and do not have one, so just my iPod will do for now.

David Pogue has a list of other things this new phone will not do.. it's not nice.

You can find it here.

CF


Another discussion...
here

#70 hfoster

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 10:21 AM



:rant: Tight control is common in the cell phone industry.


Huh?

I'm confused.

I have at least a *dozen* third party programs programs loaded on my low end Sony Ericsson (which I use as a simple pre-loaded phone through Cell One - I detest monthly payments). The Palm Treos run Palm OS or Windows Moble, and will run anything available for those platforms. (A buddy has astromist on his.)

I'm with Peter. At this point I'm looking for expandability and adaptability. I'd rather just pop for the Nokia n800 (no monthly fees), or a new PDA and keep my current cell. (I wish palm would come out with a new machine...)

T


I beg your pardon. Perhaps my carrier, Verizon, is the only one that locks down the phones in this manner.

H.

#71 Tom T

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 12:08 PM

No need for a pardon, I'm just confused. (A common state with me lately unfortunately.)

Maybe we're just talking about different things. I think my providers parent company is Verizon (but I could very well be mistaken).

I think that if they were to really lock it down, they'd disable the ability to have any form of access at all.

Am I misunderstanding?

#72 Steph

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 12:13 PM

Some of the big companies, Cingular and Verison for sure but probably others, tend to program the phones before they're sold so that the user is locked out of the ability to load software or ringtones or stuff from third-party sites. They only let you use THEIR website to get that stuff, for a price of course. You can get hacking software to override the lock-out, I don't know how well it works (but will find out shortly :wron:).

How all that is done, I have no clue, not being all that technically ept. I just know it's a known widespread problem. :shrug:

#73 Tom T

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 12:40 PM

All of the phones??

Seriously - What would be the point of buying ANY smart phone if you couldn't load your own software?

#74 azsrr

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 12:43 PM

Some of the big companies, Cingular and Verison for sure but probably others, tend to program the phones before they're sold so that the user is locked out of the ability to load software or ringtones or stuff from third-party sites. They only let you use THEIR website to get that stuff, for a price of course. You can get hacking software to override the lock-out, I don't know how well it works (but will find out shortly :wron:).

How all that is done, I have no clue, not being all that technically ept. I just know it's a known widespread problem. :shrug:


This has been particularly an issue with Bluetooth. For example, on my (discarded) Treo 650, Cingular disabled Dial-Up Networking -- you could not use DUN on your laptop with the Treo via Bluetooth, thus making it difficult or impossible to use your cell phone, via Bluetooth, to access the web from your laptop. Why? Dunno, but most of the websites/blogs said Cingular's real target was to force you to transfer files to your Treo using Cingular's website & file transfer system (which costs $), rather than just a simple Bluetooth connection. Yes, you could just haul out a USB cable and do it, but this is an example of a carrier disabling some of the phone's features in order to force you to do something that would cost money.

This was hacked, of course, and you can pretty easily now find on Google several programs that will allow to use DUN/bluetooth with your laptop/650. The hacks sometimes work, sometimes not.

I had a similar issue with my Razr and the Motorola Phone Tools. That phone was with Verizon. Verizon would disable all non-Verizon-website methods of transferring files to the phone, even though the hardware was perfectly capable of doing it. Of course, there were hacks, and complaints, and eventually Verizon caved.

http://cavemonkey50....la-phone-tools/

My current device (other than the Razr) is a Blackberry 8700c with Cingular. Cingular has some odd system of locking out certain software you might wish to load onto your 8700c. There is an entire website dedicated to listing what is locked out and what is not.

My wife's phone, a Razr with Verizon, will not synch using Bluetooth with her car (Lexus 400h). Just can't do it, because of Verizon's crippled Bluetooth (I have forgotten the details, but it has something to do with Verizon's implementation of OBEX). The hardware is perfectly capable of doing it, but the car synching is a collateral casualty of Verizon's attempt to control how you get data off of and onto the phone.

To get my wife's phone book onto her car, I have to delete all of my contacts from my Cingular phone, then synch my wife's Outlook onto my Cingular phone, go out and synch it with her car using Bluetooth, then delete all of her stuff from my phone and re-sync it with my own Outlook.


I'm glad to see public opinion moving against the iPhone. DO NOT BUY ONE. DO NOT GET IN LINE IN FRONT OF ME. heh heh



#75 Steph

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 12:57 PM

All of the phones??

Seriously - What would be the point of buying ANY smart phone if you couldn't load your own software?


Whether it's all phones on the carrier or not, I don't know. Probably, or at least all that would have any software capability, but I have no basis for that.

As for why buy a smart phone -- 'cause they look cool and have enough features on their own without needing third-party software for those that just want the basics? :shrug: I use my phone for calling folks...period. I don't use it for all the other stuff. Occasionally I might take a pic. I'd *like* to change ringtones 'cause the defaults suck on all carriers. (Well, Sprint had a decent one...but I digress. ;))

But I just bought a Krzr to move to Verizon from Cingular when that contract expired, and after rebates it's only $50. Don't really care about all the fancy features and don't intend to load it up with stuff, I just think it looks cool and I like that it's small and light. But I would like to add simple, non-"top 50 rap-chart-topper" ringtones and maybe some pics to use as wallpaper, and for that, I gotta hack the basic software. :p


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