1034 replies to this topic

[vineyard]

What about in terms of seeing more challenging objects? I'm in Bortle 9 so NV opens up a lot of impossible objects with glass only. Would the SmartEye go even further because it stacks? That is, could we potentially see things that not even PVS-14 NV would allow?

You can get stacking with NV if you use something like Astroshader on an iPhone,  You do need tracking for that (but you'd need that for any stacking).  There are some lovely examples of stacked NV images on the NV forum.

 

Galaxies are not a great target for NV (I think). The SE with a longer FL OTA would likely show more details. Correct me if I'm wrong on this...

No I think NV also does excellent things with galaxies - the NV forum has some good examples.

 

I have an NV and have been thinking about the SE, but I'm coming out on the side of passing on this version of the SE:

 

1.  NV can give instant viewing, and tracking - SE only with tracking.

2.  NV can be used 1x, 3x 5x etc - SE only with a scope.

3.  NV doesn't do colour, but to me that's not enough of an advantage to justify an SE (monochrome viewing of objects can be beautiful to see the structure - and most of the time for nebulae you're going to see red for HA anyway!)

 

Having said that, if there was a version of the SE with (a) less coma in the EP (is 90 degree really needed - I'm quite happy with a Nagler's 82 degrees - would an 82 degree SE have significantly less coma?) and (b) a larger (APS-C or 4:3) sensor that could justify being used as an imaging camera backup (a 533 sensor is too small in FOV especially with wider field scopes), then I'd reconsider.  

 

I should also caveat that for EAA I have a Dwarf 3 which tbh is remarkable - no mount needed and much cheaper.

 

Having said that, full kudos to Pegasus for having pioneered this.  I'm looking fwd to future iterations.

[steveincolo]

You can get stacking with NV if you use something like Astroshader on an iPhone,  You do need tracking for that (but you'd need that for any stacking).  There are some lovely examples of stacked NV images on the NV forum.

 

No I think NV also does excellent things with galaxies - the NV forum has some good examples.

 

I have an NV and have been thinking about the SE, but I'm coming out on the side of passing on this version of the SE:

 

1.  NV can give instant viewing, and tracking - SE only with tracking.

2.  NV can be used 1x, 3x 5x etc - SE only with a scope.

3.  NV doesn't do colour, but to me that's not enough of an advantage to justify an SE (monochrome viewing of objects can be beautiful to see the structure - and most of the time for nebulae you're going to see red for HA anyway!)

 

Having said that, if there was a version of the SE with (a) less coma in the EP (is 90 degree really needed - I'm quite happy with a Nagler's 82 degrees - would an 82 degree SE have significantly less coma?) and (b) a larger (APS-C or 4:3) sensor that could justify being used as an imaging camera backup (a 533 sensor is too small in FOV especially with wider field scopes), then I'd reconsider.  

 

I should also caveat that for EAA I have a Dwarf 3 which tbh is remarkable - no mount needed and much cheaper.

 

Having said that, full kudos to Pegasus for having pioneered this.  I'm looking fwd to future iterations.

Me, I'm perfectly happy with the AFOV of a Panoptic or Delite.   I even still use my Radians and Plössls!  But I think Pegasus' choice of the IMX533 makes a lot of sense.  With a larger sensor, there'd be significantly more pixels than the OLED on silicon display, so there'd be downsampling.  (Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be a zoom feature.  You could imagine a gesture like pressing and rotating the crown together to be used for zooming).  The IMX533 3008x3008 square sensor is an excellent match for the 2560x2560 OLED square display, giving a little space for cropping due to field rotation or drift.  

Edited by steveincolo, 13 July 2025 - 07:00 PM.

[BrentKnight]

I'm also not sure why the SE does not have a zoom feature when used as an eyepiece.  Of course when the image is captured to media, it can be zoomed (cropped).  Rarely would I need to look at the entire FoV of a tiny galaxy - even with just the 533 sensor.

 

Maybe this will be a feature added in a future software update?

[turtle86]

Galaxies are not a great target for NV (I think). The SE with a longer FL OTA would likely show more details. Correct me if I'm wrong on this...

 

Agree.  I find that NV helps with galaxies a small amount but for me aperture and dark skies help a lot more. Of course, for something big like Andromeda, you don't even need much aperture since you can get a stunning view with just binoculars from dark enough skies.

 

Emission nebulae are definitely better targets for NV than galaxies. From what I've already seen in other posts here (including some nice images of M51 and M101), the SE would certainly show more galaxy detail than NV.  That's to be expected, since NV is real time whereas it sounds like the SE is integrating multiple images over time on a tracking mount.  Pretty cool though that you can view the image through the virtual eyepiece and don't have to futz with the usual hassles of AP.  As I said, NV and the SE are nice complements to one another and I see a SE in my future.

[Terry Maurice]

Thanks Brian__A, that is all very helpful. 

 

 

Terry,

 

Unfortunately I only got to play with mine for a few hours before the weather and travel plans interfered.  However, I did use it with my Celestron EdgeHD 8 both without and with the focal reducer.  All setting being the same, the reducer produces a better stacked image faster.  As for the difference between the eyepiece view and internally saved stacked image, the saved image (and saved subs) will result in a better image after processing.  For comparison, this is a smart phone snapshot of the eyepiece view (M57):

M57_Eyepiece snapshot_50pct.jpg

 

vs. the saved stacked image.:

M57_SmartEye_Stacked_50pct.jpg

 

 

 

[vineyard]

Me, I'm perfectly happy with the AFOV of a Panoptic or Delite.   I even still use my Radians and Plössls!  But I think Pegasus' choice of the IMX533 makes a lot of sense.  With a larger sensor, there'd be significantly more pixels than the OLED on silicon display, so there'd be downsampling.  (Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be a zoom feature.  You could imagine a gesture like pressing and rotating the crown together to be used for zooming).  The IMX533 3008x3008 square sensor is an excellent match for the 2560x2560 OLED square display, giving a little space for cropping due to field rotation or drift.  

Concur on the FOV.  I've not looked through an SE so don't know how important 90 degree is for a virtual reality experience, but smaller FOV still feels pretty real for me.  I'd happily trade a smaller FOV for less coma.

 

That's interesting on the matching between the OLED and the sensor - maybe that explains it.  But it handicaps the use of the SE as a pure astro camera - if you have a smaller focal length scope as recommended for AP, most people would use a larger FOV.  And if it's limited as a backup AP camera, then I'd say ditch the cooling (making it cheaper and lighter, less power hungry, and less aurally noisy) - modern zero amp-glow sensors are very good without cooling (I've been v surprised by the uncooled Dwarf3 even at temperatures clocked at >30C).  I suspect a 428 sensor would perform v well and with bigger FOV.  Or even an old 294 sensor (w cooling).  (And that's disregarding whether other OLED screens are possible - I don't know anything about that!)

 

I had asked that Q about the ability to zoom w the crown elsewhere - I guess the answer is no then (currently) so thanks for clarifying that.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a v interesting piece of kit - especially if you don't already have NV or another smart scope.  But for me, I'm going to wait for a better v2.

Edited by vineyard, 14 July 2025 - 05:22 AM.

[steveincolo]

Concur on the FOV.  I've not looked through an SE so don't know how important 90 degree is for a virtual reality experience, but smaller FOV still feels pretty real for me.  I'd happily trade a smaller FOV for less coma.

 

That's interesting on the matching between the OLED and the sensor - maybe that explains it.  But it handicaps the use of the SE as a pure astro camera - if you have a smaller focal length scope as recommended for AP, most people would use a larger FOV.  And if it's limited as a backup AP camera, then I'd say ditch the cooling (making it cheaper and lighter, less power hungry, and less aurally noisy) - modern zero amp-glow sensors are very good without cooling (I've been v surprised by the uncooled Dwarf3 even at temperatures clocked at >30C).  I suspect a 428 sensor would perform v well and with bigger FOV.  Or even an old 294 sensor (w cooling).  (And that's disregarding whether other OLED screens are possible - I don't know anything about that!)

 

I had asked that Q about the ability to zoom w the crown elsewhere - I guess the answer is no then (currently) so thanks for clarifying that.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a v interesting piece of kit - especially if you don't already have NV or another smart scope.  But for me, I'm going to wait for a better v2.

Another possible reason for using the IMX533 is, with its size, there’s usually little or no vignetting.  So less need for flats, keeping the system simpler.  

 

IMX533 is perfectly adequate as a starter AP camera, too.  You can search Astrobin by equipment; you’ll find thousands of images using it, some of them even pretty good!  

 

It could be that cooling was necessary anyway, with a CPU inside the device along with the sensor. 

Edited by steveincolo, 14 July 2025 - 07:51 AM.

[sixela]

From what I've already seen in other posts here (including some nice images of M51 and M101), the SE would certainly show more galaxy detail than NV.

You need roughly 5-10 minutes of integration before that's even going to begin being true (having both a SmartEye and a NVD)...if you use the correct filters and a NVD with enough sensitivity in blue and very good SNR.

To me it's no contest -- the NVD wins on galaxies unless you're prepared to be reaaaaally patient with the SmartEye, enough to show faint tidal tail and pull even these out of the noise.

The SmartEye is fun mainly (only?) because of colour, and that's important for globs, open clusters and planetary nebulae. But I *observe* with one scope and the NVD while the SmartEye is on another scope doing its thing.

As for emission nebulae in mono: the NVD will beat the pants off the SmartEye with respect to faint extensions that you can see unless you want to image for really long (i.e. much, much, much more than 10 minutes), and that usually means starting to dither manually if all you have is a tracking mount and a SmartEye...unless you go to a full gear capable of autoguiding and dithering, but let's just say that an ASIair based imaging setup isn't exactly the same experience as looking through a NVD.

Edited by sixela, 15 July 2025 - 08:07 AM.

[plav1959]

Just wondering if anyone out there is using a smarteye with an AM5N with SkySafari and if this removes the need for a laptop for alignment?

[John59]

Just wondering if anyone out there is using a smarteye with an AM5N with SkySafari and if this removes the need for a laptop for alignment?

Try this link.  It worked for me and no PC needed.

I have the AM5 but the method should be the same for AM5N.

 

https://www.youtube....wkpHjUDb5t5rgLA

 

The Space Koala did a great job of step by step instruction to connect all three together.

pay close attention to IP addresses for your device as they vary from unit to unit