71 replies to this topic

[LDW47]

 

 

 

Not exactly. The first of both the orange and early black GEM mounted C80s were on the Polaris mount and were designated only as a C80 on their OTA stickers. The alt-az version of the Vixen C80 were called the Firstscope 80 and had it on the sticker. The Super Polaris-C80s were designated as a SP-C80 on their stickers. What Bomber Bob called a C80P in post #15 and shows the sticker that says Premium 80 were only offered with a Alt- Az mount. They were the last of the 80mm Vixens and were offered as a upgrade to the Chinese models that were being offered in their place. 

 

I have a Black SP-C80 and a C80 Polaris and the Polaris model and like the Orange one shown above in post #39 has C80 on the sticker

 

Firstscope80-Sticker.jpg

This Firstscope 80 sticker is from a Vixen Alt-Az model and Russell shows the same type in post# 11 as well.

 

Premium80.jpg

The above ad was in an ad for mostly the Chinese models (like the one below)

Since it was an upgrade from the new Chinese offerings it no longer used the Firscope name.

 

Celestron-Fracs-97.jpg

This ad from Sept 1997 shows both Chinese and the last of the Vixens and that's the Premium 80 in the lower right.

 

What ads to the confusion is the Firstscope name was used for both the Alt-Az and GEM mounted Chinese models but never on the GEM mounted Vixens.

My 1997-1998 Chinese model sure didn't say First Scope, there may have been a few switch over models, as it moved from one country to the next, I believe they temporarily moved to Taiwan and quickly to China  My 80 mm Firstscope is an early 1990 model. As I say the optics in my Chinese model was even highly rated by Ed Ting who I consider a great reviewer and was confirmed by myself. Sorry I just didn't get into in depth wordings like yourself. Its been about a decade since I did my research on these scopes. My goal was to always get either the 102mm or 120mm model, I don't remember the size but all I could ever find was the 60mm model in those Japanese scopes. Clear Skies to you.  PS:  The optics, the quality of the optics all were the same and that pretty well carried into the Chinese models, at least with my 102 mm it did.

 

Edited by LDW47, 15 January 2025 - 10:30 AM.

[SoCalPaul]

Not exactly. The first of both the orange and early black GEM mounted C80s were on the Polaris mount and were designated only as a C80 on their OTA stickers. The alt-az version of the Vixen C80 were called the Firstscope 80 and had it on the sticker. The Super Polaris-C80s were designated as a SP-C80 on their stickers. What Bomber Bob called a C80P in post #15 and shows the sticker that says Premium 80 were only offered with a Alt- Az mount. They were the last of the 80mm Vixens and were offered as a upgrade to the Chinese models that were being offered in their place...

Thanks for this definitive information, Kasmos, very helpful.

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[Cavs56]

Mine is on the Vixen alt-az mount and is C-80. Supposedly one owner purchased before 1986.

Attached Thumbnails

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[Kasmos]

Mine is on the Vixen alt-az mount and is C-80. Supposedly one owner purchased before 1986.

Yeah, I had a feeling the earlier Alt-Az models didn't say Firstscope on them, but I didn't go thru my files. But also note that yours actually says CO-80. 

 

When I get the time I'll look thru my photo files and some of my old S&T magazines.

 

BTW, I don't know about the rest of it, but by that photo, yours appears to be in very fine condition.

[dave253]

I’ve owned 2 identical Vixen white tube Custom 80Ms.

 

The first one from about 1983/4, the second from a decade later. They were both very very good scopes, I still have the second one. We all know how good they are!

[Kasmos]

Well I did a little looking thru some old S&Ts and I pinned down a few things I already basically knew. The oldest ads for the Vixen refractors I found was in the August '83 issue and they were of course Orange Tube models, It and other ads also prove there was never a Alt-Az C80 offered in Orange. And as surprising as it might seem the Orange models were fairly quickly replaced by the Black tubes which were annouced as soon as Sept.1984 in the ad below.

 

Not only does it announce the color change to Black tubes, it also introduces the Alt-Az Mounted Firstscope!

So right from the begining it was called the Firstscope, but that doesn't tell us if that name was written the tube sticker.

 

Also by Dec. 1984 they were already announcing the Super Polaris Models

which makes me wonder how long the Black Polaris models were offered?

Could it really have only been only for 2 or 3 months?

 

The Dec 84 issue had a Celestron double page ad with several Black tube telescopes and the Super Polaris with Sky Sensor.

In the same issue this ad from Advark Optical used the photo from that ad and list the 80 and 90mm refractors with SP in their names. 

 

BTW, my SP-C80 came with a instruction booklet copyrighted 1991 and the Alt-az model was still called the Firstscope.

Edited by Kasmos, 20 January 2025 - 05:02 AM.

[Terra Nova]

Well I did a little looking thru some old S&Ts and I pinned down a few things I already basically knew. The oldest ads for the Vixen refractors I found was in the August '83 issue and they were of course Orange Tube models, It and other ads also prove there was never a Alt-Az C80 offered in Orange. And as surprising as it might seem the Orange models were fairly quickly replaced by the Black tubes which were annouced as soon as Sept.1984 in the ad below.

 

New-Color-9-84-700.jpg

Not only does it announce the color change to Black tubes, it also introduces the Alt-Az Mounted Firstscope!

So right from the begining it was called the Firstscope, but that doesn't tell us if that name was written the tube sticker.

 

Also by Dec. 1984 they were already announcing the Super Polaris Models

which makes me wonder how long the Black Polaris models were offered?

Could it really have only been only for 2 or 3 months?

 

The Dec 84 issue had a Celestron double page ad with several Black tube telescopes and the Super Polaris with Sky Sensor.

Super-Polaris-Xmas-84.jpg

In the same issue this ad from Advark Optical used the photo from that ad and list the 80 and 90mm refractors with SP in their names. 

 

BTW, my SP-C80 came with a instruction booklet copyrighted 1991 and the Alt-az model was still called the Firstscope.

Aardvark Optical Co.! Yet another astro company I either don’t remember or have never heard of. Back in the days of paper catalogs, magazine ads and drop shipping via an intermediary there were so many of them! I guess the internet and more ready access put an end to it? Lots of consolidation now. 

[SoCalPaul]

Well I did a little looking thru some old S&Ts and I pinned down a few things I already basically knew. The oldest ads for the Vixen refractors I found was in the August '83 issue and they were of course Orange Tube models, It and other ads also prove there was never a Alt-Az C80 offered in Orange. And as surprising as it might seem the Orange models were fairly quickly replaced by the Black tubes which were annouced as soon as Sept.1984 in the ad below.

 

New-Color-9-84-700.jpg

Not only does it announce the color change to Black tubes, it also introduces the Alt-Az Mounted Firstscope!

So right from the begining it was called the Firstscope, but that doesn't tell us if that name was written the tube sticker.

 

Also by Dec. 1984 they were already announcing the Super Polaris Models

which makes me wonder how long the Black Polaris models were offered?

Could it really have only been only for 2 or 3 months?

 

The Dec 84 issue had a Celestron double page ad with several Black tube telescopes and the Super Polaris with Sky Sensor.

Super-Polaris-Xmas-84.jpg

In the same issue this ad from Advark Optical used the photo from that ad and list the 80 and 90mm refractors with SP in their names. 

 

BTW, my SP-C80 came with a instruction booklet copyrighted 1991 and the Alt-az model was still called the Firstscope.

Awesome information, thanks for sharing all this!

 

I originally owned the black tube version on Polaris mount several decades ago. I recently acquired an orange tube version. It's satisfying to own a piece of Celestron history and it performs like a champ, but the black tube looks much better. :-)

 

Paul

[Bob S]

I don't remember Aardvark Optical Co. at all, but the ad was interesting. I have two black tube Vixen/Celestron C80's, one on the alt-az and the other on the Polaris mount. They both have great optics and are readily available for grab n go observing. They do give 80mm refractors a good name.

[Kasmos]

It didn't seem very likely that the Black Polaris model was only offer a few months,

so last night I did a little more digging into some old ads and found a partial answer to that mystery.

 

I've never seen an ad by Celestron themselves showing a Black Tube Polaris C80

But, the two ads below from two retailers were in the Sept. 86 issue of Sky & Telescope.

 

 The above ad from New York Camera lists 3 options (numbered by me), for the Achromat C80s

I think we can safely assume that #1 is the Polaris Model

(The above image was numbered incorrectly when first posted and has now been edited 1-22-25) 

 

And this one from New England Astro-Optics does the same but is in a different order,

and this time #2 is surely the Polaris Model.

 

So it's fairly evident that Celestron offered the Black Tube C80 on both EQ mounts for a time.

How long they offered it both ways will probably be harder to pin down.

 

An example of Celestron doing something similar was in the Feb. 85 issue in the ad for the new 8" and 6" Newts. 

The 8" came standard on a Super Polaris mount but the 6" came with the Polaris but had the SP as an option.

Edited by Kasmos, 22 January 2025 - 02:37 PM.

[Kasmos]

I was just reviewing the Celestron Firstscope 80 thread that's also running right now and I saw something that I noticed in some Lumicon ads (from '86 and I believe also in '85). In those ads they listed the Alt-Az C80 as a CB80.

 

I wondered if it was their own designation for ordering or a mistake for CO-80 but then I saw this:

https://www.cloudyni...-80/?p=12355668

 

My guess is that Moonburn's scope has CB-80 on the decal. I'm going to go thru my photo files and see if I have a record of any other Firstscopes that have that designation as well.

[grif 678]

It didn't seem very likely that the Black Polaris model was only offer a few months,

so last night I did a little more digging into some old ads and found a partial answer to that mystery.

 

I've never seen an ad by Celestron themselves showing a Black Tube Polaris C80

But, the two ads below from two retailers were in the Sept. 86 issue of Sky & Telescope.

 

NY-Cam-C80-List.jpg

The above ad from New York Camera lists 3 options (numbered by me), for the Achromat C80s

I think we can safely assume that #2 is the Polaris Model

 

NewEng-C80-List-500.jpg

And this one from New England Astro-Optics does the same but is in a different order,

but again #2 is surely the Polaris Model.

 

So it's fairly evident that Celestron offered the Black Tube C80 on both EQ mounts for a time.

How long they offered it both ways will probably be harder to pin down.

 

An example of Celestron doing something similar was in the Feb. 85 issue in the ad for the new 8" and 6" Newts. 

The 8" came standard on a Super Polaris mount but the 6" came with the Polaris but had the SP as an option.

Looking at that price label, wonder where they got the  List Price  from. I guess was just a number grabbed out of the air, just to make us think we were getting a good deal.

[Kasmos]

Correction:

Today I noticed I made a mistake numbering the first image in post #60 so it has now been corrected.

[upwinddan]

What is "P"? I knew L, M, S, and SS for long, medium, short, and super-short f/ratios. Mine was known as the a80m by Vixen. f/11.4. Celestron by Vixen Firstscope 80 (C80). So I don't think Celestron offered the 80L which was f/15. Did they? PS on my Celestron either the word Vixen or the maker's mark is stamped in several places. The only thing different is the finish.

 

Pain sucks, glad that's over!

 

-drl

The “P” is for the Polaris mount. 

[ericb760]

Correction:

Today I noticed I made a mistake numbering the first image in post #60 so it has now been corrected.

I'm still not sure I understand the difference between the C80 and the Firstscope 80.

[upwinddan]

Looks like I mislabeled my scope on a previous post. See attached photo. Mine came with the alt/az mount originally, but I wasn’t crazy about the mount. I moved the OTA to a Polaris mount where it has happily remained. 

Attached Thumbnails

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[Bomber Bob]

What is "P"? I knew L, M, S, and SS for long, medium, short, and super-short f/ratios. Mine was known as the a80m by Vixen. f/11.4. Celestron by Vixen Firstscope 80 (C80). So I don't think Celestron offered the 80L which was f/15. Did they? PS on my Celestron either the word Vixen or the maker's mark is stamped in several places. The only thing different is the finish.

 

Pain sucks, glad that's over!

 

-drl

Celestron just HAD TO vary the Vixen labeling scheme (referring to V's 1980s Labels):

 

(mount type) - (scope model) -->  P(olaris) - C(elestron)80 / P-C80 [I don't recall seeing any labeled this way.],  S(uper) P(olaris)  /  SP-C80

 

But, at least that gives you a clue for orphaned OTAs.  More Confusing:  my PREMIUM 80.  Original Mount??  No Clue.  I call mine a C80P, which is more in line with Takahashi's scheme, which DOES make sense -- Celestron 80 Premium.  I mean... Really?  It's just a C80 with better coatings...

 

 

So... does First Scope 80 equal FS-C80??

 

[Yes!  Cabin Fever is setting in.]

Edited by Bomber Bob, 23 January 2025 - 02:39 PM.

[Kasmos]

I'm still not sure I understand the difference between the C80 and the Firstscope 80.

Celestron just HAD TO vary the Vixen labeling scheme (referring to V's 1980s Labels):

 

(mount type) - (scope model) -->  P(olaris) - C(elestron)80 / P-C80 [I don't recall seeing any labeled this way.],  S(uper) P(olaris)  /  SP-C80

 

But, at least that gives you a clue for orphaned OTAs.  More Confusing:  my PREMIUM 80.  Original Mount??  No Clue.  I call mine a C80P, which is more in line with Takahashi's scheme, which DOES make sense -- Celestron 80 Premium.  I mean... Really?  It's just a C80 with better coatings...

 

Celestron P-80 A03.jpg

 

So... does First Scope 80 equal FS-C80??

 

[Yes!  Cabin Fever is setting in.]

From what I've researched, this is pretty much how they (Vixen Models Only), were decaled and categorized:

 

Firstscope 80

Alt-Az Mount (Black) The most common designation for the Alt-Az model

 

CB-80

Alt-Az Mount (Black) not many examples are known of these.

This designation was used in the Lumicon ads in the mid 80's

and there have only been a few posted on Cloudy Nights

 

https://www.cloudyni...elestron-cb-80/

https://www.cloudyni...ere-these-made/

 

CO-80

Alt-Az (Black) Another unusual designation and an example is shown in post #53

 

C80 

Polaris Mount  (Orange and Black Models)

Lower cost option to the SP-C80 within the Black models but it's unknown for how long.

Orange C80s never came on a Super Polaris mount

 

SP-C80

Super Polaris Mount (Black Only)

 

Premium 80

Alt-Az Mount Only (Black) Last of the Alt-Az models shown in some1996-'97 ads as a step up option to the new Chinese models 

 

Caveats:

I'd have to go back and check some samples I saved, but some Alt-Az models may have come with a C80 decal on the OTA.

This might be a case of Celestron or Vixen grabbing whatever OTA that was on hand at the time it was packaged.

Also, In some cases the mount on a particular scope might have been swapped out later by the owner.

Edited by Kasmos, 24 January 2025 - 03:54 AM.

[photoracer18]

Here is a photo I just posted in a companion thread of my own Celestron C80. Don’t know actual production date or a range thereof. Just posted a request for that information.

 

No Sun warning anywhere on the OTA:

The other 2 black scopes have the Circle-V of Vixen the orange one does not. If you can't find one on any other label on the orange one then while its from Japan its not a Vixen.

[Kasmos]

The other 2 black scopes have the Circle-V of Vixen the orange one does not. If you can't find one on any other label on the orange one then while its from Japan its not a Vixen.

It's common knowledge that the Orange C80s are Vixens. The V on the bottom of the focuser in post #20 is on a orange one.

 

You might want to take a look at this thread and read the first paragraph in the first post. 

https://www.cloudyni...ange-refractor/

 

 

BTW, I have a Orange C60 and it's all Vixen

[SoCalPaul]

It's common knowledge that the Orange C80s are Vixens. The V on the bottom of the focuser in post #20 is on a orange one.

 

You might want to take a look at this thread and read the first paragraph in the first post. 

https://www.cloudyni...ange-refractor/

 

 

BTW, I have a Orange C60 and it's all Vixen

Same in my post #39, circle-V sticker on the bottom of the focuser, on an orange tube edition.

 

Thanks for the link to that other thread. I'm pleased to see that there is die-hard fandom for these beauties.

 

Now if the fires and wind would quit, maybe we could get out and observe here in the LA region. 

 

Paul

[SoCalPaul]

Oh man, did not know that Tasco also rebranded Vixen products, this is so cool! I would buy it, if the barn wasn't already crowded...

 

https://www.facebook...50756114500619/

 

Paul