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Altazimuth mount+ refractor without tremors?

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32 replies to this topic

#1 paulsky

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Posted 16 April 2024 - 04:06 PM

Hello,
Does anyone know if an altazimuth mount can really adequately support a 4" F/7 refractor, that is, allowing us to see the image without vibrations or tremors?.. With high magnification... 
Thank you
Paul



#2 ButterFly

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Posted 16 April 2024 - 04:48 PM

Did you have a particular altaz mount in mind, or is this a general question?  An adequate mount will do fine.  An inadequate one won't.  Posting a budget is also a good idea.

 

I use my Manfrotto 475B with an N12 head with my 120mm f/7.5 with a 3-6 Nagler for planets.  It's not good when it's windy.

 

If you want tracking and goto, a Skywatcher AZEQ5 will do fine. iOptron also makes a few.  Their strain wave mounts are incredibly light weight.



#3 cst4

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Posted 16 April 2024 - 05:12 PM

I use a SV M2 mount head... with the right tripod, it is absolutely vibration-free with my 4" F/7 at all magnifications the scope can muster.


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#4 Mark9473

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Posted 16 April 2024 - 05:15 PM

My Berlebach Planet + DiscMount DM6 do that admirably. Settling time after a hard knock is just a fraction of a second. That's with my APM 107mm apo or my Mewlon 210.

#5 Sketcher

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Posted 16 April 2024 - 05:21 PM

Does anyone know if an altazimuth mount can really adequately support a 4" F/7 refractor, that is, allowing us to see the image without vibrations or tremors?.. With high magnification... 

Of course, it's possible for an alt-az mount to adequately support a 4-inch f/7 refractor!  Below is a 6-inch f/6.5 refractor that's adequately supported by a (homemade) alt-az mount:

 

6 inch Alt Az

 

But my personal preference, by far, is to use a German Equatorial Mount (GEM) to support refractors for visual astronomical use -- regardless of magnification.  That 6-inch f/6.5 refractor once again:

 

6 inch On GEM In Colosseum
 

In my opinion (an opinion that few seem to share) alt-az mounts are better for terrestrial refractor use, but GEMs are better for astronomical refractor use.


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#6 pcrichmond

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Posted 16 April 2024 - 06:11 PM

I use a Sergio Bonilla dual alt/az with the SW 100/9 Evostar or a combo of a C6 and short tube 4" refractor for grab and go star hopping.

Settling time is minimal, really like it for an alt/az mount. Run it on an Ioptron tripod with 1.75" legs

For longer observing periods with the larger SW 4", I'll usually set up a Gem.


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#7 richardr

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Posted 16 April 2024 - 06:23 PM

I use an f/9 4" on a Stellarvue M002C with a Vixen wooden tripod and it is stable unless there is wind.  It is very stable with an f/6 3" telescope that is old and heavy(about 6.6lbs. without rings and vixen plate) or 10lbs. all up.)


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#8 John Huntley

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Posted 16 April 2024 - 07:52 PM

I use either a Skytee II or a Giro Ercole mount with my 100mm F/9, 102mm F/6.5 and 120mm F/7.5 refractors. I can usefully use 300x magnification with these setups.



#9 RazvanUnderStars

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Posted 16 April 2024 - 07:53 PM

"without vibrations or tremors" - the tripod is critical. A well made mount on a tripod too light will still vibrate.

In my case a Berlebach Planet is rock solid to keep my 120mm refractor.
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#10 Mike Q

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 04:29 AM

I use an iOptron AZ mount pro.  I put the tripod on the anti vibration hockey pucks and have no issue with vibrations at all.



#11 ancleto

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 07:41 AM

I use a Rowan AZ100 on a carbon fiber surveyor’s tripod. it’s big, it’s heavy…but it has very little vibration.

I use the rowan for a 127mm F/7.5 triplet refractor (25 lbs).

I have a Sergio B mount that works well for a little at80ed refractor or my c6. I take it camping or when I want a light, quick setup.


Edited by ancleto, 17 April 2024 - 07:31 PM.


#12 Scott99

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 11:31 AM

Hello,
Does anyone know if an altazimuth mount can really adequately support a 4" F/7 refractor, that is, allowing us to see the image without vibrations or tremors?.. With high magnification... 
 

Yes it can
 



#13 Lentini

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 11:54 AM

I have a 4" F/7.4 and a much more difficult 80mm F/15.

 

The two mounts I use are excellent for vibration free use for both. But I had to upgrade to these tripods to get to zero settle time. Bang on them, and they don't vibrate.

 

Note an extension pier even with these mounts and tripods still left a little wiggle with the F/15. So I use the F/15 with the DM4 and no extension pier. Rock solid.

 

Note that weight capacity and vibration resistance aren't linear. I had a carbon fiber tripod that could hold 65lbs... But the top of it had azimuth wiggle with longer scopes that these Oberwerks don't have.

 

But to your question...  Yes, the 4" F/7.4 is stable with or without extension piers on both of mine, and had been with many other alt-az mounts (and tripods) that I tried previously.


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#14 John Huntley

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 12:58 PM

This combo was really rock solid - T-Rex + Tak FC100-DL:

 

taktrex03.JPG

 

taktrex04.JPG

 

 


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#15 Lookitup

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 01:05 PM

Tak 100Df with NOH CT-30. Not "rock" solid though due to the light weight CF tripod. Panning and focusing is less than 1/2 a sec.

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#16 db2005

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 02:30 PM

Very capable Alt-az mounts do exist, but the irony in the current market is that strong EQ mounts tend to be less expensive than strong Alt-Az mounts, especially if you want slow-motion controls, which you probably want for high magnification observation

 

And for heavy scopes most alt-az mounts require counterweights, meaning that they negate one of the key advantages of alt-az mounts: low weight.

 

I've owned several alt-az mounts over the years, and my favorites by far are the Vixen Porta II and the Vixen APZ. The Porta II isn't beefy enough for a 4" f/7 IMO, but the APZ is significantly stronger.


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#17 Lookitup

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 02:43 PM

Tak DF on TS-Optics Tri-Pier and Supermount M Standard without any tremors.cool.gif

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Edited by Lookitup, 17 April 2024 - 07:01 PM.


#18 Scott99

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 04:02 PM

 

 

And for heavy scopes most alt-az mounts require counterweights, meaning that they negate one of the key

Discmounts, Supermount no counterweights and work great waytogo.gif  But I agree, if I'm using counterweights, I'll be using a traditional EQ mount.  In fact I've got Teegul, DM6, and W-Master, all three with no possibility of counterweights smile.gif

 

One thing I'm still learning is the effect of the unbalanced load on tripods.  It means you need to use a larger, beefier tripod for the same load.  Tripods can take more weight when it's balanced evenly.


Edited by Scott99, 17 April 2024 - 04:24 PM.

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#19 Lookitup

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 05:33 PM

Discmounts, Supermount no counterweights and work great waytogo.gif  But I agree, if I'm using counterweights, I'll be using a traditional EQ mount.  In fact I've got Teegul, DM6, and W-Master, all three with no possibility of counterweights smile.gif

 

One thing I'm still learning is the effect of the unbalanced load on tripods.  It means you need to use a larger, beefier tripod for the same load.  Tripods can take more weight when it's balanced evenly.

Actually M12 counter-weight works with my M Standard. Here is a pic with the M10 bar only with M12 adapter.

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#20 dryfly

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 05:34 PM

I had a DM-4 on a Berlebach Uni-24 for my Tak FC100-DF and it was so solid a hurricane couldn't budge it.  I also used it on a AZ Mount Pro, and found that mount very good as well.  Lastly the Super Mounts W and M mounts are excellent as well.  

 

Mike


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#21 Lookitup

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 05:45 PM

I had a DM-4 on a Berlebach Uni-24 for my Tak FC100-DF and it was so solid a hurricane couldn't budge it.  I also used it on a AZ Mount Pro, and found that mount very good as well.  Lastly the Super Mounts W and M mounts are excellent as well.  

 

Mike

I did like the DM4 a bit better vs the M Standard with the Tak DF and binoviewer. Favorite so far is the NOH CT-30 and soon the CT-20. With a ED125 the NOH was clearly more stable. CS Pete

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#22 sevenofnine

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 06:40 PM

Consider this one by Sky-Watcher. It has both EQ & Alt/Azimuth plus dual encoder technology borg.gif

 

https://www.skywatch...products/az-eq5.


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#23 ABQJeff

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Posted 18 April 2024 - 09:31 AM

Consider this one by Sky-Watcher. It has both EQ & Alt/Azimuth plus dual encoder technology borg.gif

 

https://www.skywatch...products/az-eq5.

+1 and dual scope capability to boot.

 

Or better yet if you REALLY want a rock solid mount for a 4” scope: the Az/Eq-6.

 

And a Panther TTS-160 will also be rock solid (not to mention the Mammoth TTS-300!)

 

Bottom line, there are many alt-az mounts that can hold a 4” refractor rock steady, like it isn't even there.  But there is a cost and convenience price to pay for the biggest of them.

 

Most people get a 4” refractor for grab and go.  That necessitates a smaller mount as well, and thus the real challenge you are facing.  “Is there a light weight grab and go mount that can hold a 4” refractor rock steady?” I think is the real question.  And even there yes; above recommended Rowen AZ100, M2C, Losmandy AZ8, etc. are all good mounts (be sure to put on a steady tripod).



#24 Scott99

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Posted 18 April 2024 - 10:39 AM

Actually M12 counter-weight works with my M Standard. Here is a pic with the M10 bar only with M12 adapter.

that is cool!  So Supermount CAN use a CW shaft if needed waytogo.gif



#25 PatientObserver

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Posted 18 April 2024 - 04:43 PM

Actually M12 counter-weight works with my M Standard. Here is a pic with the M10 bar only with M12 adapter.


I may need to look into a counterweight bar for my S-Mini.


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