12 replies to this topic

[Jethro7]

Hello Cners,

Most of my NVA endeavors are well satisfied with one of my APO's most notably my TSA 120, FS 76 and TS C-F 155, on occasion a 12.5" Dob OR C8 Edge HD rounds out the NVA scope line up. Over the last couple of years, I have been curious about using a small fast Newt. I don't know if others out there get Email or pop up ads from the Astro Toy companies but I do and at times it is actually a bit scary when the sale ads are tuned for equipment that you were just thinking about. Any way H.S. sent me a pop up sale ad for the Apertura Carbon Star 150 F/4 Newt. This little fast Newt checked off a few of the design specs that I desired. The carbon fiber tube is very ridged and the Carbonstar has a massive sturdy focuser and I knew that these two things alone would help stabilize the NV visual stack that occurs if you are using an afocal arrangement. Upon receiving and removing the Carbonstar 150 from the box, this Newt is a good looking scope and the manfacturing quality is excellent. The Carbon fiber tube is very ridged, the focuser is big and sturdy and operates very smoothly. The spider is also quite ridged and strong and should be stable. There is no need for flocking the internal tube is baffled and coated with a flat black non reflecting finish. Although there is no sign of who manufactured the Carbonstar 150, for Apertura, I am pretty confidant that it is a GSO product. The Newt came with parallax rings and two sturdy dove tail plates, a Vixen and Losmandy D style. The only real goof up on GSO's part, is this Newt came with a set of wrenches that I quess were ment for some other scope and did not fit anything on the Carbonstar, fortunately I have the tools and this was not an issue. I assembled the the scope and mounted it for collimation. Like my 12.5" Discovery Dob, I started out with the secondary mirror and barlowed laser and fine tuned it with a Cheshire. The collimation process was straight forward and text book at least I thought, more on that later. I remembered Cuive, having to fix the pinched primary optics in his Carbonstar and this being a quick easy fix, I decided to go ahead and remove the primary mirror cell and yep the mirror clips were very tight and I loosened the screws a bit and reattached the primary mirror cell  (I guess GSO does this for shipping) so I recollimated the Carbon Star. Then came the new Astro Toy curse  and I waited and I waited for clEar skies. After a few days I had partially cloudy skies and decided to give the Carbon Star a test drive. The first light was with my 26 Nagler without the light intensifier and the views were very weird, I thought, oh yeah, I need to put in the Paracorr, so I did so and tried to tune it and this corrected some things but the views were still weird. The issue is this fast Newt unlike my Dob, this Newt is very particular with collimation errors. Unfortunately my skies only gave me a short window and I spent most of the time window getting the Carbonstar collimated before the skies became completely overcast. I took my time and got the collimation done the best I could and then the new astro toy curse returned and I waited and I waited. Last night the skies cleared early in the morning and this was perfect with my favorite time of the year at hand with Sagitarius and the Summer Milkyway rising into view. I set everything up for NVA. the Collimation was still spot on and this little Newt does not disappoint. Using a PVS 14, TV 67mm plossl, 685nm IR Longpass and 2.5nm Ha filters. The views of the Milkyways star fields, Nebulae and prominent dust lanes are sharp and bright and I could easily view alot of Nebulocity around and between The Lagoon and Trifid Nebulae. The Pillars of Creation in the Eagle Nebula are too small to pick out with the 67mm plossel and next time I will try the 26 Nagler and see if I can see the Pillars. Anyway the bottom line is, I was able to answer my questions on how well a small fast Newt works for NVA. I'm not sure how fast this scope is operating with the PVS 14 but it is fast. The Apertura Carbonstar 150 F/4 does not disappoint and will be a compliment by providing an entirely different viewing experience from my APO's. 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 

 

 

 

 

 

The actual views are much better than my hand held phone images.

 

 

Edited by Jethro7, 20 May 2024 - 09:59 AM.

[Deadlake]

There is a Lazy review here as well

 

https://youtu.be/jNa...xAV8gJpb-zT5lE-
 

Did you  or get  the version that comes with the corrector?

 

Intersted to hear what Ray makes of his version as well.

[GeezerGazer]

....The Apertura Carbonstar 150 F/4 does not disappoint and will be a compliment by providing an entirely different viewing experience from my APO's. 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 

 

I pre-ordered the CS 150, receiving it in March.  I find it easy to collimate and a delight to use mounted to my HAZ31 mount.  I use it in prime focus with my Mod 3C NVD.  I took several images through it on 12 April, three of which you can find near the top of my NV Phonetography album, of the Jellyfish, Monkeyhead and Rosette nebulae, here:  https://www.cloudyni...59-geezergazer/

 

I certainly agree with you concerning the build quality of the CarbonStar.  It seems very well made and resolves many of the issues that typically plague the less expensive f:4 Newts that are intended for photography.  I purchased it for its FL, light weight and diminutive size.  I added a handle, a dovetail stop, and an aperture mask to cover the primary mirror clips.  But the above listed photos were taken before the aperture mask was installed.  

 

My Ackermann .73x reducer/corrector adjusts the focal ratio to f:2.8 with very satisfactory coma correction, and at f:4, an MPCC performs OK to minimize coma.  So far, I'm also very satisfied with the CarbonStar 150.  

 

The CarbonStar seems to hold collimation quite well.  I travel 40 miles to my green zone observing site, which means the scope is jostled during loading and transport, but it typically needs just minor adjustment, if any. 

The secondary mirror adjustment is done with OEM Allen screws.  I replaced them with Bob's Knobs for convenience.  With the new knobs in place, the front OEM cover does seat properly, so I have left it off.  This is of no concern to me, because I have fashioned a soft case for the scope so it is protected from contaminants and bumps during storage and transport. 
Ray

Edited by GeezerGazer, 20 May 2024 - 12:38 AM.

[Jethro7]

I pre-ordered the CS 150, receiving it in March.  I find it easy to collimate and a delight to use mounted to my HAZ31 mount.  I use it in prime focus with my Mod 3C NVD.  I took several images through it on 12 April, three of which you can find near the top of my NV Phonetography album, of the Jellyfish, Monkeyhead and Rosette nebulae, here:  https://www.cloudyni...59-geezergazer/

 

I certainly agree with you concerning the build quality of the CarbonStar.  It seems very well made and resolves many of the issues that typically plague the less expensive f:4 Newts that are intended for photography.  I purchased it for its FL, light weight and diminutive size.  I added a handle, a dovetail stop, and an aperture mask to cover the primary mirror clips.  But the above listed photos were taken before the aperture mask was installed.  

 

My Ackermann .73x reducer/corrector adjusts the focal ratio to f:2.8 with very satisfactory coma correction, and at f:4, an MPCC performs OK to minimize coma.  So far, I'm also very satisfied with the CarbonStar 150.  

 

The CarbonStar seems to hold collimation quite well.  I travel 40 miles to my green zone observing site, which means the scope is jostled during loading and transport, but it typically needs just minor adjustment, if any. 

The secondary mirror adjustment is done with OEM Allen screws.  I replaced them with Bob's Knobs for convenience.  With the new knobs in place, the front OEM cover does seat properly, so I have left it off.  This is of no concern to me, because I have fashioned a soft case for the scope so it is protected from contaminants and bumps during storage and transport. 
Ray

Hello Ray,

I had been debating back and forth about getting a fast astrograph Newt for a couple of years. The Takahashi Epsilon was one. Excellent scopes but on the expensive side and have read that the Epsilons are a challenge to collimate. The CS 150, is not hard to collimate, I just found that I need to take a little more time collimating the CS 150. 

I had considered  one of those Sharpstars but it seems that you either get a good one or a bad one.  You are right, the CS 150  seemed to check off several blocks of importance at a decent price. I will agree that a Mod 3 in  prime focus would be better suited for NVA, with a Newt. The stack works fine but the light train stack gets rather ridiculously long on a Newt. The carbon fiber tube was one of the main points of interest to me to support that long light train stack, there is too much flex and vibration with the cheaper steel tube newts. Also the light weight and length of the OTA allows me to use the CS 150 on a light weight mount like a DSA DSV - 2 or even my DSA DSV- M ultra light mounts and this was one of the other points of importance. 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 

 

Edited by Jethro7, 20 May 2024 - 09:55 AM.

[GeezerGazer]

Jethro, 

I purchased my Mod 3C, in late 2016, specifically to use in prime focus.  I have never been disappointed.  And although I purchased it exclusively for visual use, I now use it almost exclusively for phonetography.  

 

Since 2018, I have used an Ackermann reducer (.73x) coma corrector (commonly referred to as an ASA reducer/corrector) purchased from TS in Germany, with my f:4 newtonians which makes them +/- f:2.8.  This gives a bigger FoV at the faster focal ratio with excellent correction, which I mostly use for nebulae.   It wouldn't serve as well for an afocal system.

 

BUT, if you ever decide to modify your NVD for prime focus and find need of one, I recommend checking the Starizona Nexus for your CarbonStar.  It is a modest refinement of what I use and is less pricey. 

 

DeadLake, I did not buy the dedicated CC for the CarbonStar.  I already had a MPCC and my Ackermann reducer/corrector, so wanted to try them before buying another CC.  For my purposes, the MPCC performs fine at f:4 ...those 3 CarbonStar images of the Jellyfish, Rosette and Monkey Head, in my NV Phonetography album, were all taken at f:4 using the MPCC. 

Edited by GeezerGazer, 20 May 2024 - 03:25 PM.

[79Vette]

Jethro, Geezer, or anyone else who has this scope, how do you like it for visual use?

 

I currently have a 10" F5 Dob that is great, but too big for me to set up most nights.  My backyard is Bortle 8 and my neighbor used IR floodlights for their security cameras, so I cannot observe from my home even with NV.  Anymore I find the big Dob is mostly used for public outreach 

 

I also have an 81mm F7 refractor (William Optics Zenithstar, 559mm focal length) which is a fine scope, but I find the aperture to be somewhat limiting except for lunar and NV use.  I am considering the Carbonstar 150 as a replacement for the refractor (or maybe an addition...).  My 10" Dob is wildly better for lunar and planetary viewing when compared to the small refractor just due to the much larger image scale, so I am hoping the Carbonstar would be somewhere in between (better than the 81mm frac but not nearly as good as the 254mm dob).

 

I mostly enjoy low power views of large emission nebula, and the Carbonstar 600mm focal length is close enough I expect it would give similar image scale to my current refractor.  Hopefully with better brightness and less background noise.  I have a PVS14 so I can only use afocal if that matters.  

 

A Paracorr is out of the budget, but I could probably fit a Baader MPCC into the budget with the Carbonstar.  I have never noticed coma in my F5 scope, though I am sure is is there to some extent.  Will the F4 Carbonstar be significantly more noticeable? 

 

A 6" newt is about the sweet spot for what I am willing to transport and set up for a night, and I am hoping it will provide significantly better views than my 81mm refractor both with and without NV.  My experience with the 10" dob indicates that aperture is king and I am pretty optimistic for how the 6" Newt will perform.  Do you think I am setting my expectations too high?  Or is this a better "do-everything" scope than my small refractor if I am OK with the size?

 

 

I know its really hard to take photos at the eyepiece, but these are some images from my refractor with a PVS14 and 2.5 nm HA filter.  The eyepiece views are less bright, but have similar contrast and better sharpness (I dont have a mount for my phone and my shaky hands blur the phone pictures).  This is what I want to beat with the Carbonstar, while retaining some level of decent performance when used without the NV on planets/globs/open clusters

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Edited by 79Vette, 16 June 2024 - 01:46 AM.

[GeezerGazer]

Jethro, Geezer, or anyone else who has this scope, how do you like it for visual use?

 

Will the F4 Carbonstar be significantly more noticeable? 

 

Do you think I am setting my expectations too high?  Or is this a better "do-everything" scope than my small refractor if I am OK with the size?

 

 

.... these are some images from my refractor with a PVS14 and 2.5 nm HA filter.   This is what I want to beat with the Carbonstar, while retaining some level of decent performance when used without the NV on planets/globs/open clusters

Yes, the CarbonStar's 6" aperture and f:4 focal ratio will provide a noticeably brighter image than your 81mm f:7 refractor.  Since you use an afocal setup already, you know that the stack weight is substantial.  The focuser on the CarbonStar "should" be able to handle it.  You need input from someone who already uses this scope in afocal.  I only use my CarbonStar in prime focus.  A little story here:  In 2017, I had a 6" f:4 Orion Newtonian.  In 2018, I purchased a .73x Ackermann reducer/corrector (similar to the Starizona Nexus) and used it in prime focus with the 6" Newt.  I ultimately decided to stick with prime focus.  Later that year, I felt constrained by the 6" aperture and 600mm focal length, so I purchased an 8" f:4 Newt, and used it as my primary, all-around scope until this Spring, when I downsized, back  to a 6" Newt... the CarbonStar.  And although I purchased my NVD for visual use in 2016, I now use it almost exclusively for phonetography.  My goals with NV changed for various reasons, just as yours might change in time.  

 

The CarbonStar is a good all-round scope for use with NV, especially since you observe mostly bright and large nebulae.  In afocal with a TV 55/67, you'll have a maximum FoV at ~f:1.6.  In afocal with an f:4 scope, the TV 55/67 does show aberrations in the outer FoV.  I no longer use my NVD in afocal, so again, you need input from someone who uses this scope in that way.  

 

Since you are interested in taking photos, I'd strongly recommend converting to prime focus and looking at the Starizona Nexus .75x reducer/corrector, which is a refinement of what I have been using since 2018.  It should perform fine with your 10" scope as well.  IMHO, prime focus is easier to use for phonetography, providing a shorter stack and cleaner images with fewer aberrations.  You might want to PM Gavster who used NV in afocal for years, but, now uses prime focus for a lot of his photography.  His opinions should be helpful if taking photos is something you want to pursue.  

Have fun deciding!  

Edited by GeezerGazer, 17 June 2024 - 02:05 AM.

[Jethro7]

Hello 79Vette,

Jethro, Geezer, or anyone else who has this scope, how do you like it for visual use?

The Carbonstar works just fine for visual.

 

I currently have a 10" F5 Dob that is great, but too big for me to set up most nights.  My backyard is Bortle 8 and my neighbor used IR floodlights for their security cameras, so I cannot observe from my home even with NV.  Anymore I find the big Dob is mostly used for public outreach 

That would make me move. Still debating heading to Chiefland, or Bonifay Florida. Both Bortel 2

 

I also have an 81mm F7 refractor (William Optics Zenithstar, 559mm focal length) which is a fine scope, but I find the aperture to be somewhat limiting except for lunar and NV use.  I am considering the Carbonstar 150 as a replacement for the refractor (or maybe an addition...).  My 10" Dob is wildly better for lunar and planetary viewing when compared to the small refractor just due to the much larger image scale, so I am hoping the Carbonstar would be somewhere in between (better than the 81mm frac but not nearly as good as the 254mm dob).

Nebulae is where Carbonstar truly excels. As well as the Milkyway starfields and dust lanes. I have been enjoying using the Carbonstar and my Tak FS 76 DS side by side mounted on my Desert Sky Astro DSV-2. This set up is still quite light and the difference in views between these scopes offers a whole different viewing  experience.

 

I mostly enjoy low power views of large emission nebula, and the Carbonstar 600mm focal length is close enough I expect it would give similar image scale to my current refractor.  Hopefully with better brightness and less background noise.  I have a PVS14 so I can only use afocal if that matters.  

Nebulae is the Carbonstars thing. Dont feel that you are missing out by not having a Mod 3 . the PVS 14 afocally also has its advantages. I still may buy a mod 3 at some point but it's not a priority. 

 

A Paracorr is out of the budget, but I could probably fit a Baader MPCC into the budget with the Carbonstar.  I have never noticed coma in my F5 scope, though I am sure is is there to some extent.  Will the F4 Carbonstar be significantly more noticeable? 

you will  need a coma corrector of some type. You figure when using a PVS14 afocally with a TV 55/67mm plossl, you will be operating pretty fast with the carbonstar.  How ever even with a Coma corrector and PVS 14, you still have some aberrations near the field edge but for low power views of Nebulae I have not found this to be a big problem.

 

A 6" newt is about the sweet spot for what I am willing to transport and set up for a night, and I am hoping it will provide significantly better views than my 81mm refractor both with and without NV.  My experience with the 10" dob indicates that aperture is king and I am pretty optimistic for how the 6" Newt will perform.  Do you think I am setting my expectations too high?  Or is this a better "do-everything" scope than my small refractor if I am OK with the size?

I very happy that Apertura came out with a mid level 6" astrograph Newt that gives a cheaper alternative to the Tak Epsilon and the TS Boren Simon astrograph Newts. The Carbon star is built sturdy and after adding the included rings and dovetail bars, it is still very light, which allows me to mount the Newt successfully on my light weight DSV-2 mount. I can't answer your question about the Carbonstar being a "do everything scope" because expectations are a personal thing. If you have been into the astro hobby for a while and have owned a number of different scopes, you will have pretty good idea of what your views will look like and the expectations comes down to the hope of quality views that a new scope is going to give and the Carbonstar does not dissapoint. Are the Views with the Carbonstar better than the views from my Tak TSA 120 or FS 76 DS.  The answer is not nessessarily, the views are just different. Yes the views are brighter and the Carbonstar has a wider FOV and this will also be brighter with your WO 81 scope.  The Carbonstar is a compact light weight and effective scope for NVA as well as conventional viewing.

 

 

I know its really hard to take photos at the eyepiece, but these are some images from my refractor with a PVS14 and 2.5 nm HA filter.  The eyepiece views are less bright, but have similar contrast and better sharpness (I dont have a mount for my phone and my shaky hands blur the phone pictures).  This is what I want to beat with the Carbonstar, while retaining some level of decent performance when used without the NV on planets/globs/open clusters

 

The images are nice. Everyone who is into NVA and captures images with a phone knows that the actual views through the eyepiece are much better. 

 

For larger open Cluster the Carbonstar would be a good choice but when it comes to viewing planets and globulars, the Carbonstsr would not be my choice. The scope choice for these targets most deffinatly rest with my Tak TSA 120 or if my sky conditions are excellent, I would like I committed a travesty by not using my 12.5" Dob. When your skies are quiet and clear, aperture is king for the moon and planets.

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

Edited by Jethro7, 17 June 2024 - 06:44 PM.

[sixela]

An MPCC is definitely in the "not good enough" category especially on an f/4 scope -- lots and lots of spherical aberration i.e. fat stars. A TS Maxfield coma corrector really is the minimum.

[Bearcub]

Ive heard ritchey-chretien was very sensitive to collimation out of all telescope types.. if thats true maybe its not the best tool for simple people? Maybe what ive read isnt accurate?

[sixela]

These are not Ritchey-Chretien telescopes (not even the Epsilon and clones with hyperbolic primary mentioned in the thread).

Edited by sixela, 19 June 2024 - 02:01 AM.

[Jethro7]

Hello CNers,

I just received a call from Highpoint Scientific and was informed that Apertura, is sending out an upgrade kit for the Carbonstar 150 to all that purchased this scope. That's kind of cool that this kit is being sent to out for free. Oft times, these Astro companies are more than happy to put together an upgrade kit and send you an Ad so you can purchase it. High five Apertura.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

[GeezerGazer]

I also got a call from High Point.  The upgrade kit consists of a larger locking knob for the focuser, a new, injection molded light shield for the bottom of the primary cell (to replace the 3D printed light shield), and something else that is supposed to prevent the primary mirror from being pinched or prevent over-tightening the mirror clips.  The kit is expected to ship in about a month or so.  

 

I still very much like the CarbonStar 150, both for its appearance and performance.  

 

I do not recommend the Baader MPCC for the CarbonStar when used for photos.  It performs "almost" satisfactorily, but leaves residual coma at the outer edge... which may be acceptable for visual use, especially if you already have the MPCC.  Even my .73x Ackermann reducer/corrector leaves some outer field distortion, but it's acceptable to me for the bigger FoV (reduces the effective FL of the scope to ~450mm).  It would be interesting to see if the Nexus .75x reducer/corrector performs better than the older TS Ackermann.

 

Below are two examples of the CarbonStar used with the MPCC for phonetography, showing the outer field distortions, some of which may have been due to pinched optics.  After these images were taken in April, I removed the cell and adjusted the mirror clips, loosening them just a bit.  But the outer ~10% to 15% does show distortion.  Clicking on the images shows the date/time and camera settings at the bottom of the photo.

Ray 

 

Rosette

 

Monkey Head

Edited by GeezerGazer, 10 August 2024 - 12:10 PM.