19 replies to this topic

[fieldsweeper]

Hello,

 

 

I was looking at buying a used MX+ and it said on the ASI documents the Paramount MX+ works with it, but now I am seeing everywhere that aside from this mount being crap and seemingly having a lot of issues, I am also reading it practically just doesn't work with the ASI air? 

is that true?  Anyone currently using it like that?   If not, what are you using to be completely wireless and easy to use much like the asi air? 

 

Starting to wonder if it would be a waste of money buying a used Paramount MX+?

Thanks in advance. 

[Dan Crowson]

No clue on the ASI air but if it supports ASCOM mounts, it should work. I would wonder if it attempt to add sync points versus offsets - something you can't do if you have a T-Point model in place.
 
You should read up more on the mount. I have a feeling there are few people that would want to pair up an ASI air with a Paramount versus using more full featured software and automation tools. You also have to keep in mind that people without issues (the vast majority of users) tend not to post. If you go onto any telescope hosting site, the buildings are filled with red Paramounts and white AP mounts and some newer PlaneWave L-Series. My Paramount MX+ has been running remotely since 2016.

Dan

[Elusivephotons]

I wouldn't even attempt to run a Paramount with an ASI Air. They are exactly opposite design philosophies. One is highly technical, the other is 'press play'. You'd be asking for problems.

The Paramounts are extremely capable mounts though but you need to want to learn the software ecosystem. (The SkyX for control and Voyager/NINA for automation)

[fieldsweeper]

I wouldn't even attempt to run a Paramount with an ASI Air. They are exactly opposite design philosophies. One is highly technical, the other is 'press play'. You'd be asking for problems.

The Paramounts are extremely capable mounts though but you need to want to learn the software ecosystem. (The SkyX for control and Voyager/NINA for automation)

How easy is it to get one running with NINA? is that a bit more plug and play?  

[HeavenlyFox]

No clue on the ASI air but if it supports ASCOM mounts, it should work. I would wonder if it attempt to add sync points versus offsets - something you can't do if you have a T-Point model in place.
 
You should read up more on the mount. I have a feeling there are few people that would want to pair up an ASI air with a Paramount versus using more full featured software and automation tools. You also have to keep in mind that people without issues (the vast majority of users) tend not to post. If you go onto any telescope hosting site, the buildings are filled with red Paramounts and white AP mounts and some newer PlaneWave L-Series. My Paramount MX+ has been running remotely since 2016.

Dan

Small correction: since ASIAir is Linux-based, it has no ascom support. Instead it uses INDI I believe.

 

According to their doc, paramount indi driver communicates to TheSky rather than the mount directly. So you still need a computer. In that case, why use ASIAir in the first place?

[Elusivephotons]

How easy is it to get one running with NINA? is that a bit more plug and play?

I'm not sure, I don't use NINA. I use Voyager/SkyX.

[th3r3ds0x]

Pretty sure TheSky is required to communicate with a Paramount. I use SGP to run my sessions but an ascom driver is required to make the connection between TheSky and other software, SGP, PHD, etc...

[mikeyL]

I run a Paramount MyT with TheSkyX and NINA. I think it is an easy setup, but I guess it is hard to judge that from someone else's perspective. For a frame of reference I am a retired engineer so I am comfortable with teaching myself how to best use new pieces of equipment and software. In my setup TheSkyX runs as the planetarium software and connects via an ASCOM driver to NINA. NINA provides the hardware connections, plate solving, and sequencing to allow for unattended imaging throughout the night. Of course, you can do a number of similar things with just TheSkyX itself, minus the sophisticated and flexible image sequencing. As stated above, running a Paramount is going to be greatly facilitated by having TheSkyX, although perhaps the ASCOM driver can be used by itself and for no cost? I do not know as I have had TheSkyX as part of my original MyT purchase back in 2015. Running a Paramount without TheSkyX somewhere in the chain though is the opposite of a plug and play endeavor though I expect, assuming it can be done. On the other hand, there are lots of cool features of TheSkyX that enhance the pointing and guiding of mounts that use it, so I would not consider running a Paramount mount without it in any case.

 

I can state though that a used MX+, unless it has been abused in some way, should be an excellent mount that would be able to provide top level pointing and tracking for years to come. My MyT is 9 years old and has been wonderful for me. 

 

The reality of this hobby is that it is still an endeavor that requires one to be able to integrate different pieces of software and hardware often from different manufacturers to get the best results. You need to be patient and willing to learn what works and what doesn't,although you can greatly benefit from an active community of users willing to share their expertise and experience. You are taking the right step here by inquiring here before just buying some gear to find out it doesn't work the way you thought after the fact.

 

ZWO has some excellent products, and seems to be one of the companies that is innovating quite aggressively in the astrophotography space, but they are definitely looking to keep the supported hardware and software in the ZWO ecosystem. So I would think an ASI Air is going to pair more completely with an AM3 or AM5 for instance. In any case though I think being ready to dive in and learn new things instead of looking for an immediate plug and play solution is going to be beneficial the farther you decide to delve into the hobby of astrophotography. In my experience I have had to treat improved capabilities and competency in astrophotography as a journey and not a destination.

 

ML

[555aaa]

TheSkyX with the Paramount mount gives you automated modeling, ProTrack for unguided imaging, and satellite tracking.

[Cliff Hipsher]

Hello,

 

 

I was looking at buying a used MX+ and it said on the ASI documents the Paramount MX+ works with it, but now I am seeing everywhere that aside from this mount being crap and seemingly having a lot of issues, I am also reading it practically just doesn't work with the ASI air? 

is that true?  Anyone currently using it like that?   If not, what are you using to be completely wireless and easy to use much like the asi air? 

 

Starting to wonder if it would be a waste of money buying a used Paramount MX+?

Thanks in advance. 

I have no experience with that particular mount but I do have two Air computers controling an iOptron GEM45 and a ZWO AM3.  I am also running a test bed buillt around a Bee Link minicomuter running Windows 11 Pro, ASCOM, NINA, and PHD2.   I checked the Air mount compatibility list and Air supports the "Bisque Paramount+The SkyX."  Exactly what that means I have no clue, but I will say if I could afford a Software Bisque mount I would not be using an ASI Air to control it..  Another point is, if you get an Air you are stuck using ZWO cameras and accessories.

 

Having said all of that, my brief but continuing forray into the ASCOM ecology has led me to the discovery that Windows RDS (Remote Desktop Sharing) is not necessary.  I am currently using Google Desktop sharing and it is a no brainer.  I can fire up the Bee LInk, let it boot, and then I click the Chrome Remote Desktop icon on my task bar and boom, I'm looking at the Bee Link Desktop.  I can run the ZWO ASCOM Server, Stellarium, NINA, and PHD2 with the click of a mouse.  I am still learning my way around but this is like Air on steroids.. 

 

The only real downside is that where Air gives you dew heater control and power for their cooled cameras, a Bee Link is just a computer. I has plenty of USB ports but no 12VDC outputs so cable management isn't.  The only remaining issue is how/where to mount the Bee Link...

Edited by Cliff Hipsher, 23 May 2024 - 07:09 PM.

[pterodyne]

you absolutely need theskyX running to make a paramount work.  So the asi air is a no go unless you have a computer for the mount running theskyX.  If you have that, then yes the asiair can run everything else, and control the paramount.  I wouldn't do it. 

 

I have a paramount MX, and I run kstars/indi/theskyx. It does all work, but the skyx is a large beast of a program, and really meant to run everything.  I love kstars/indi/ekos, but want to get rid of the paramount so I can make things easier.  My system is all remote, so getting all the different software working together and automated is a PITA.   But really legacy monolithic apps like TSX I have a philosophic issue with.  Equipment should be connected via indi or ascom.  Control software is up to the user.  Tpoint is nice, but not unique to paramount. Most software can build models. I don't see the benefit. And last rant TSX is the WORST skychart! I hate it. I know people love it, so I expect some responses here, but I just don't get it.  Bloated stars lacking in sufficient control to dial it in. Slow interface, especially over remote control. Ugh.  Just no.

 

 

 

Anyway my .02 for what it's worth.

 

 

Bryan

Edited by pterodyne, 23 May 2024 - 10:06 PM.

[rkaufmann87]

Reading your post it sounds like you are new to AP but you are willing to buy a used high quality mount which is always wise. If that is correct and ASI is willing to support you  then yeah move forward. 

[Max Coe]

TSX really isn't such a beast. In fact, it's my favorite. I don't think that it is any more difficult to learn than ASIAir, and all of the information that you need to learn it properly is found in one location. With the AA, you need the official instructions, hours and hours of reading a couple of different forums, a really good 3rd party website and some luck. It does an OK job of running ZWO cameras. Running mounts...not so much. It absolutely crushed my Feathertouch one night while trying to do a polar alignment. I now run my AM5 from TSX, which is dirt simple since they both speak LX200. 

[Dennis_Oz]

I am puzzled by your findings that the MX+ is crap, as when I did some research prior to purchasing mine back in 2020, all the on-line reviews that I looked at were very favourable.

 

Since acquiring the mount, apart from a S Hemisphere PEC Bug, it has been a wonderful mount and the SB documentation sets a benchmark as the gold standard in my opinion.

 

I do find the SB Support Forum less capable than I would have expected for such an expensive mount.

 

In terms of The Sky X Pro, it meets my needs and integrates well with the MX+ which I set up and tear down for each session. The T-Point Run and Advance Polar Alignment takes some 30-40 mins at the start of each session, but I start this in twilight so don't mind that overhead.

 

With a typical 70-100 point T-Point run I can run unguided at 2350mm FL for 60 secs and obtain nice, round stars.

 

Dennis.

Edited by Dennis_Oz, 24 May 2024 - 01:10 AM.

[mikeyL]

Echoing what Max and Dennis have said, I think TheSkyX has an undeserved reputation for being hard to learn and complicated. I find it is mostly intuitive, and as stated above since it is designed by the same company that makes the MX+ it has some great integration and top level features like TPoint and ProTrack that can be utilized to give you amazing pointing accuracy and improved tracking results. It is now a very mature piece of software as well, tracing its origins back to the start of the company before 2000.

 

In my setup I run on a portable pier that is sandbagged in place more or less permanently, and I have even found that I can run a TPoint model that I can reuse even when my telescope/camera gear was removed from the mount and then replaced. And in any case, TPoint runs quickly and is automated so running a new model of a decent size especially with a modern fast readout CMOS based camera is fast and easy. My opinion would be to get the used MX+ and TheSkyX and dig in and learn how to run that setup. With that setup you should have a reliable mount for years to come, and you can always find assistance on forums like this if you are stuck getting something to work...

 

ML

[asl547]

The following is from a post that I made on the Software Bisque forum two years ago. I haven’t attempted since then to see whether ZWO has taken steps to fix the problem noted there.

 

There apparently is a bug in the INDI driver for TheSkyX in the ASIAir that was fixed on the INDI platform but ZWO has not updated the driver to the current INDI version.

 

[Cloudy Nights is blocking me from referencing a previous Cloudy Nights post where the details of the bug in the Indi driver were explained by someone else who debugged it.]
 

Paramount owners have reported inability to control their Paramount using the ASIAir, and the cause apparently is this bug that ZWO has failed to correct. Because of these reports I personally have not tried to use my ASIAir (which I have successfully used with a different much smaller portable mount) to control my MyT.

Edited by asl547, 27 May 2024 - 02:31 PM.

[Jeff_Richards]

Am I missing something? I thought the whole idea of the Air was to have just a single unit on the scope controlling scope, camera, guider, and focuser. But this is not possible with a Paramount...you still need a PC or at least a RaspberryPi to run TSX and the Air has to be connected to that device.

[Max Coe]

The AA is a computer that needs to communicate with another computer, usually a phone or tablet, because the AA has no user interface. Two devices are required, whether one operates it remotely or not. TSX runs on one computer, which can be physically small. I operate my aging but excellent Paramount ME remotely with a long cable and a small, cheap laptop. Hardware-wise, this is about the same price as an AA+ and a cheap tablet, but the ZWO software is included, whereas TSX updates cost bucks. TSX controls mount, guider and camera if you wish. I prefer Sharpcap for some purposes, but that's just me. My AA+ controls my ZWO cameras and tries to control the mount. It does not control my QHY or SBIG cameras, because it doesn't know how. It does not guide my AM5 very well (1.2 - 1.5" typically) and it has been known to have an occasional expensive oops while slewing. So, I use three computers with the AM5: the laptop to run the mount, with the AA+ and the tablet to run the cameras.  Note: most AM5/AA+ users that I talk to have fewer issues with that combo than I do. My AM5 just has a lot of periodic error, and the AA+ struggles with it. YMWV.

     I would not connect an ASIAir to a Paramount for any reason. TSX is superior in every respect, and requires less hardware to operate.

Edited by Max Coe, 27 May 2024 - 08:28 PM.

[Cliff Hipsher]

I run an iOptron GEM45 and a ZWO AM3 with ASI Air Plus computers for the specific reasons of not running ASCOM and having everything I need in one iittle read box.

 

Both mounts guide just fine.

 

 

[Sacred Heart]

How easy is it to get one running with NINA? is that a bit more plug and play?  

I use my ME with NINA.  If I remember right you download either a driver from ascom for the Sky X / Paramount or from Bisque.  Then once installed, run Sky X as administrator for first time and only one time. Then you should be good to go.

 

You could also just use Sky X as long as Sky X has the camera control, imaging package.  Then you can guide / image / anything you want.

 

With Paramounts you do need Sky X software for the mount to run.  With Sky X you can do an automated mapping run in T Point for all sky pointing and polar alignment.  What I do is, use Sharpcap polar alignment tool, adjust mount to excellent, then run T Point for pointing model  and the polar alignment info comes back as no adjustment needed.

 

Hope that helps,  Joe