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Black Forest Star Party (Cherry Springs SP, PA) September 6-8, 2024

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#126 impreza276

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 07:19 AM

I would say 3 tops for a friend or two, but not 5.  Mom and Dad could easily have 3 adult children for the "Family" option of 5.  The "Family" of 5 ticket option has been the traditional limit for many years.

I would imagine that the star party rarely gets families of five. In those cases, two adults in the family can buy the additional tickets.


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#127 bigbangbaby

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 07:57 AM

I’ve also advocated for reducing the number of tickets individuals can purchase. Just because five tickets was always the limit doesn’t necessarily make it a valid approach now. I also think organizers should consider working with state officials on reserving the public north side for star parties. It would eliminate overcrowding and possibly give imagers and visual astronomers dedicated areas. Interest in dark skies is obviously on the uptick in the area as evidenced by star parties selling out in minutes. Perhaps it’s time to think beyond what has become an outdated model. 


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#128 Skywatchr

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 08:29 AM

I would imagine that the star party rarely gets families of five. In those cases, two adults in the family can buy the additional tickets.

There have been a number of families with more than 5 members in the past that did indeed have to buy more tickets beyond the 5 limit by having the other part of the family "group" buy the additional ones necessary.  The Mr. and Mrs. must be on the same list so they cannot separately buy more tickets.


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#129 Skywatchr

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 08:38 AM

I’ve also advocated for reducing the number of tickets individuals can purchase. Just because five tickets was always the limit doesn’t necessarily make it a valid approach now. I also think organizers should consider working with state officials on reserving the public north side for star parties. It would eliminate overcrowding and possibly give imagers and visual astronomers dedicated areas. Interest in dark skies is obviously on the uptick in the area as evidenced by star parties selling out in minutes. Perhaps it’s time to think beyond what has become an outdated model. 

Ummm, no.The North side is public access period.  Plus there is zero infrastructure, no water, no electricity, and no toilets.  It is separate so people do not have to cross Rt44 which can be very dangerous.  Nothing is "outdated".  Trying to make it larger would be too overwhelming.  The talk of segregation is what is outdated, and quite distasteful.

The quick selling out is solely because of being 100% online, and eliminating mail-in.  Registration became too easy, and too easy to cheat hogging up tickets.


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#130 bigbangbaby

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 10:26 AM

Ummm, no.The North side is public access period.  Plus there is zero infrastructure, no water, no electricity, and no toilets.  It is separate so people do not have to cross Rt44 which can be very dangerous.  Nothing is "outdated".  Trying to make it larger would be too overwhelming.  The talk of segregation is what is outdated, and quite distasteful.

The quick selling out is solely because of being 100% online, and eliminating mail-in.  Registration became too easy, and too easy to cheat hogging up tickets.

Not sure I would label separating imagers and visual astronomers as "distasteful." What's distasteful is the acrimony between the two camps, which may or may not be resolvable with diplomacy and loosely enforced rules. What is outdated is doing everything the same way you always have except turning the registration process into a 30 minute crap shoot. It is precisely this close mindedness that will be the undoing of CS star parties.


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#131 George N

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 10:28 AM

Ummm, no.The North side is public access period.  Plus there is zero infrastructure, no water, no electricity, and no toilets.  It is separate so people do not have to cross Rt44 which can be very dangerous.  ......

I seem to remember that there *was* a discussion a few years ago about re-building the Park - swapping the functions of the North and South parts. That would take major construction - and maybe a multi-year effort, and lots of state $$. One of the limitations at Cherry Springs is the limited water supply - no chance for more wells - they even have to truck in the water for the main bathroom. ....and then of course there is the $$ issue - it's a state park - and any costs have to be justified within the State's park budget.

 

There is some additional land area available for 'development' on the South side (West of the vendor tent area for example) - but again, the limitation on 'people' is partly driven by water supply and other environmental considerations. Stellafane often has 4 times as many attendees - but also a much larger geographic area.

 

Additionally - <again> - it's a **state park** and families, youth groups, and 'the public' will always have the priority. Funding is driven by attendance figures. The park management is never going to do anything that gets thousands of state residents (especially locals) complaining to their assembly members - or anything to reduce attendance (which is the only thing that kept CSSP open a few years ago when there was a drive in the Assembly to close the place - to save $$). Personally - I just see any attempt by the Park Manager to deny public access to an entire state park for a summer weekend as a way to be looking for a new job.

 

On the "fair access to star party registrations" issue - nobody liked my 'lottery' idea, so I'm out of ideas. Every star party I've looked into has a 'family friendly' policy, including family reservations. Not only is the Park "family friendly" - one of the reasons for star parties is to appeal to newbies and family members. They are not events aimed exclusively at the 'dedicated astronomy hobbyist". A 'star party' is not an 'exclusive pristine observing session for the dedicated few'. If you want that - consider an event like David Levy's "Adirondack Astronomy Retreat".


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#132 George N

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 10:40 AM

Not sure I would label separating imagers and visual astronomers as "distasteful." What's distasteful is the acrimony between the two camps, which may or may not be resolvable .....

Wow! I'd have to cut myself in half! I've been doing both - often at the same time - since 1961. Half my friends do both, including at star parties. I'm not seeing a lot of 'acrimony' - yes, some annoyance, and a few with major 'issues'. I do think there's a need for some 'education' on light discipline - a fine example of what a star party can provide. I've had plenty of problems with fellow visual observers at Cherry Springs - like people setting up a C-8 right next to my 20-inch Dob - no idea how big a circle a 20-inch Dob sweeps out at night -- or people parking next to, or on top of, one of the observing pads - and then not using it!

 

Star parties going away? I don't think so. If anything, the numbers are increasing. Plus, if you attend a "star party" you need to realize that you will have to accept some 'compromise' on expected conditions - as expected when attending an event that is aimed at more than just the 'advanced and dedicated astro hobbyist' and one will be dealing with a collection of several hundred people packed together.

 

If -- you want better conditions at Cherry Springs - do what many do -- arrive several days early or stay a few days later. Or come on a weekend with some moon late or early - or even better - mid-week. Plus, you don't lose any $$ if bad weather forces a cancelation.

 

I've done some of my best visual observing (and imaging) at Cherry Springs before/after a star party (maybe 20% the number of people on the field) or mid-week nights - when I've been totally alone. Some friends were at CSSP just recently - had 'moon' after around 1:30 or 2am - some transparency issues from smoke - but generally a fine time. I wish I could have joined them!


Edited by George N, 31 July 2024 - 10:51 AM.

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#133 Skywatchr

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 10:55 AM

I seem to remember that there *was* a discussion a few years ago about re-building the Park - swapping the functions of the North and South parts. That would take major construction - and maybe a multi-year effort, and lots of state $$. One of the limitations at Cherry Springs is the limited water supply - no chance for more wells - they even have to truck in the water for the main bathroom. ....and then of course there is the $$ issue - it's a state park - and any costs have to be justified within the State's park budget.

 

There is some additional land area available for 'development' on the South side (West of the vendor tent area for example) - but again, the limitation on 'people' is partly driven by water supply and other environmental considerations. Stellafane often has 4 times as many attendees - but also a much larger geographic area.

 

Additionally - <again> - it's a **state park** and families, youth groups, and 'the public' will always have the priority. Funding is driven by attendance figures. The park management is never going to do anything that gets thousands of state residents (especially locals) complaining to their assembly members - or anything to reduce attendance (which is the only thing that kept CSSP open a few years ago when there was a drive in the Assembly to close the place - to save $$). Personally - I just see any attempt by the Park Manager to deny public access to an entire state park for a summer weekend as a way to be looking for a new job.

 

On the "fair access to star party registrations" issue - nobody liked my 'lottery' idea, so I'm out of ideas. Every star party I've looked into has a 'family friendly' policy, including family reservations. Not only is the Park "family friendly" - one of the reasons for star parties is to appeal to newbies and family members. They are not events aimed exclusively at the 'dedicated astronomy hobbyist". A 'star party' is not an 'exclusive pristine observing session for the dedicated few'. If you want that - consider an event like David Levy's "Adirondack Astronomy Retreat".

Well stated George!  The "State Funding" comes out of the pockets of State Residents in taxes. Taxes that are already the 2nd highest in this Nation.  People from out of state have zero skin in the game, yet still think they can have a "say" in how money is spent.

 

With the ease of ticket hogging now coming to light, your idea of a lottery is beginning to sound more appealing, and more fair to the potential attendees. 

It seems too many individuals scoff at the Families as if they should be ignored, and/or driven away.


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#134 Skywatchr

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 11:36 AM

I just got word the ticket limit will be added to the faq.  I just checked and it was added.  And it is now a 4 ticket limit for one single order.

 

"How many tickets may I purchase?

 

You may purchase up to 4 tickets on any single order. For larger quantities you will have to enter a second order."

 

So if you want more, you need to take the time to add another order.  That will help others have time in between to get their orders in before any "second order" gets placed by one person.  But you still must be on your toes either way. grin.gif


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#135 reddog1972

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 12:58 PM

I just bought all 500 tickets - I'll now have the field to myself for two nights :-)


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#136 Skywatchr

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 01:49 PM

I just bought all 500 tickets - I'll now have the field to myself for two nights :-)

Think so, eh?  What about the bear, coyote, fox, skunks, etc.  They don't need tickets. lol.gif


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#137 reddog1972

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 02:16 PM

Think so, eh?  What about the bear, coyote, fox, skunks, etc.  They don't need tickets. lol.gif

None of them white lights or bright red headlamps :-)


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#138 George N

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 02:57 PM

None of them white lights or bright red headlamps :-)

That's because they don't need lights. They all can smell 'astronomers' and their donuts.....  ;)
~
No lights needed for the bear to crush you while taking yer donuts - the foxes and coyotes don't need lights to clean up what the bears leave behind.......

~

....and I don't think the skunks need lights to do what they do..... to clear out the last astronomer standing!
~
 -- anyway -- enjoy your star party......  cool.gif


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#139 impreza276

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 03:20 PM

Finally, some use for my bear costume!


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#140 Skywatchr

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Posted 01 August 2024 - 05:32 AM

Finally, some use for my bear costume!

Just hope you don't smell like you're in heat!  lol.gif


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#141 AstroBruce

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Posted 01 August 2024 - 08:56 PM

Many states have a reservation system that allows residents to make reservations a month or so ahead of non-residents. Since Cherry Springs is a state park, could that also work for a star party?

 

Bruce



#142 CometChaser2013

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Posted 04 August 2024 - 07:18 PM

Probably don't need to remind anyone reading here that tickets for BFSP 2024 will go on sale Tuesday August 6th at 8:00 pm, but just in case...

 

Tickets can be purchased here: https://www.eventbri...ts-957332275607

 

If needed, this link can also be found here: https://bfsp.org/register/

 

Please check out the site beforehand as there is important information in the FAQ section that will make purchasing your ticket easier and will give you the rules and guidelines.

Regards,

Team BFSP


Edited by CometChaser2013, 04 August 2024 - 07:56 PM.

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#143 Menefist

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Posted 05 August 2024 - 04:58 PM

I know what you guys are doing right now,

setting up you alarms, cleaning the bottom of your mouse, switching to ethernet cable instead of WiFi, calling out from work tomorrow, setting up that EventBrite account.... 

Tell me I am wrong


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#144 bigbangbaby

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Posted 05 August 2024 - 05:15 PM

This has become silly, and not in a good way.  The best thing that can happen is people who really want to attend get shut out and complain loudly to the organizers to change this hopelessly broken registration process. 



#145 impreza276

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Posted 05 August 2024 - 05:30 PM

This has become silly, and not in a good way.  The best thing that can happen is people who really want to attend get shut out and complain loudly to the organizers to change this hopelessly broken registration process.


What would you suggest they do? This situation is happening everywhere
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#146 impreza276

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Posted 05 August 2024 - 05:32 PM

I know what you guys are doing right now,

setting up you alarms, cleaning the bottom of your mouse, switching to ethernet cable instead of WiFi, calling out from work tomorrow, setting up that EventBrite account.... 

Tell me I am wrong


I'm in the gym working out my index finger, which has been twitching since the day was announced.
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#147 Menefist

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Posted 05 August 2024 - 05:38 PM

This has become silly, and not in a good way.  The best thing that can happen is people who really want to attend get shut out and complain loudly to the organizers to change this hopelessly broken registration process. 

Times are a-changin', there are more people in the hobby.

It is what it is. I bet another party can be created near by on private land. I've been private-partying since the day i got a scope, paying local farmers to let me set up on their property. 

 


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#148 bigbangbaby

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Posted 05 August 2024 - 06:44 PM

This:

 

 

What would you suggest they do? This situation is happening everywhere

 

https://www.random.org/#draws 

 

Here’s how to do it:

 

Open pre-registration for a week (or longer) to collect candidate attendees. Take names and personal info but no money at this time. Use the drawing tool to pick 500 attendees. Notify them that they are “in” and are given a reasonable amount of time to respond. Failure to respond gives up their spot to next on an overflow list. It seems hardly more difficult than it is with Eventbrite, eliminates the feeding frenzy and is fair to all, not just those with itchy trigger fingers and speedy internet connections.


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#149 mrmusclesrocks

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Posted 05 August 2024 - 07:46 PM

Any guesses on how fast it will sell out? lol.gif

 

I think it's going to be gone after around 30 min. 


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#150 Menefist

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Posted 05 August 2024 - 09:06 PM

This:

 

 

 

https://www.random.org/#draws 

 

Here’s how to do it:

 

Open pre-registration for a week (or longer) to collect candidate attendees. Take names and personal info but no money at this time. Use the drawing tool to pick 500 attendees. Notify them that they are “in” and are given a reasonable amount of time to respond. Failure to respond gives up their spot to next on an overflow list. It seems hardly more difficult than it is with Eventbrite, eliminates the feeding frenzy and is fair to all, not just those with itchy trigger fingers and speedy internet connections.

I don't agree. This is not a public service, a public housing lottery or Diversity Visa Program. This is a professional event, I think the event planners should work towards making this more exclusive, optimize the set up that they already have, providing better amenities, better services, more enforced rules, better food.
Higher entry prices? if it helps providing a more refined event and less "less-interested" attendees..... I am all up for it.

 

Any guesses on how fast it will sell out? lol.gif

 

I think it's going to be gone after around 30 min. 

1 hour and 15 minutes


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