251 replies to this topic

[Sarkikos]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but how much do you have to refocus between the Leica and the barlowed Baader, and in which direction relative to the Leica?

I don't recall.  I'd have to check the next time I have these out.

 

But since they are zooms, and each has a pretty wide continuum of focal lengths (magnifcations/exit pupils), there's not a lot of switching between them.  

 

Parfocalization - or not - among only three eyepieces is not a big deal for me.  The important thing is that each zoom eyepiece is parfocal within itself!     That's why I Barlow the Baader Zoom, otherwise, it's not going to be parfocal among its focal lengths for my eyes.

 

Mike

[Jon Isaacs]

Jon,

 

The title of this thread:  Anybody else do 90% of their observing with just 3 Eyepieces?

 

Do you spend 90% of your time observing the Veil nebula or splitting close doubles?

 

I won't repeat a description of the specific eyepieces I use, but I will point out that the several eyepiece and eyepiece/barlow combinations I have emphasized I use with my refractors are the eyepieces/barlows I use 90% of the time - consistent with answering the topic of this thread.

 

The other 10% of the time I may go intermediate between the most used magnifications, or higher, or lower/wider.  It just depends upon what mood am in and whether or not that mood includes certain targets that would benefit from framing in a wider TFOV or increased resolution with a larger image scale.  I generally do not spend a lot of time on the wider fields than what I indicated as my "lowest" because achieving those requires both a larger exit pupil (problematic due to my astigmatism) and provides a smaller image scale (prefer image scale of at least 30x) - as I've explained in earlier posts.

 

Dave

 

The Veil and close doubles are just examples of the end points.  I believe I pointed out I use 4-5 eyepieces ranging from 13mm-5mm when viewing smaller galaxies.  On a typical night, I will use 8 or 9 eyepieces ranging from ~30mm to 3.5 mm plus a 2x barlow more or less equally.  

 

Part of this probably has to do with using larger aperture scopes.  In the 16 inch, my low power is typically about 75x., high power, most nights I will hit 600x.  Crappy eyes but with no astigmatism makes large exit pupils practical.

 

Jon

[Redbetter]

I have to question the logic of the dew argument.  Instead of driving toward using fewer eyepieces, dew makes the actual use of more eyepieces helpful.  Dew was one of the concerns I had about using a Hyperion zoom since I never want to be overly dependent on a single eyepiece.

 

Dew is why I began using an insulated box when observing, so that eyepieces weren't exposed to the night sky and sub-cooling while not in the focuser.  For the 20" I keep my 5 ready eyepieces in the box for my most needed increments.  They are uncapped and ready to go.  When dewing is an issue I will swap out eyepieces to the next logical increment.  Meanwhile, I can activate a heating pack in the box to warm the cold eyepiece that has begun to dew.  I sometimes swap out my finder eyepiece the same way, and for the same reasons.

 

So when dew and frost are more of an issue, I will often end up adding a 6th eyepiece to the box at some point (typically a 13mm) and also employ the 11mm more than I normally would.  And I generally add a 7th somewhere in the session, a 24 Pan to swap out the 25 HD60 in the finder.  

 

But even without dew, the set of eyepieces used on any given night is dependent on the seeing and the aperture chosen, and that can slide a notch or two up or down.  I dial in for what is optimal for observing the various details of the targets.  With apertures under 5" that almost always involves a range on the high end, not some single fixed level.  Couple with that a low mag eyepiece (for finding and for large showpiece objects) and a mid magnification for framing/scale.

[AntaresPL]

I am about to complete my set of three ep for 8" Newtonian, but it would be 30-14/12,5- 7/6mm. 

[russell23]

I am about to complete my set of three ep for 8" Newtonian, but it would be 30-14/12,5- 7/6mm. 

That is great set.  40x, 86/96x, and 171/200x magnifications.   That is a nice spread.

[russell23]

I have to question the logic of the dew argument.  Instead of driving toward using fewer eyepieces, dew makes the actual use of more eyepieces helpful.  Dew was one of the concerns I had about using a Hyperion zoom since I never want to be overly dependent on a single eyepiece.

 

Dew is why I began using an insulated box when observing, so that eyepieces weren't exposed to the night sky and sub-cooling while not in the focuser.  For the 20" I keep my 5 ready eyepieces in the box for my most needed increments.  They are uncapped and ready to go.  When dewing is an issue I will swap out eyepieces to the next logical increment.  Meanwhile, I can activate a heating pack in the box to warm the cold eyepiece that has begun to dew.  I sometimes swap out my finder eyepiece the same way, and for the same reasons.

 

So when dew and frost are more of an issue, I will often end up adding a 6th eyepiece to the box at some point (typically a 13mm) and also employ the 11mm more than I normally would.  And I generally add a 7th somewhere in the session, a 24 Pan to swap out the 25 HD60 in the finder.  

 

But even without dew, the set of eyepieces used on any given night is dependent on the seeing and the aperture chosen, and that can slide a notch or two up or down.  I dial in for what is optimal for observing the various details of the targets.  With apertures under 5" that almost always involves a range on the high end, not some single fixed level.  Couple with that a low mag eyepiece (for finding and for large showpiece objects) and a mid magnification for framing/scale.

Dew really shouldn't have an impact on the number of eyepieces used either way.  Jon brought up dew in the context of the fact that he can have his eyepieces uncapped and on his tripod legs ready to go because he lives in a dry climate.  I live in a very wet climate and dew is major issue almost every night I go out. As is pollen many nights.  So I keep my eyepieces in their case with caps on and top of the case down, because even the case can start to accumulate moisture if I leave it open.  

 

What I think about dew and the number of eyepieces is that, if I happen to have a limited set of eyepieces I am using, then that limits wasted time fumbling around for the caps when swapping eyepieces because there is less eyepiece swapping.  Most caps are black and feeling around for those loose caps in an eyepiece case with gloves on sometimes takes time if the caps did not settle into the eyepiece's slot when I popped them off to use the eyepiece.  The dew is not a driving force for only using 3 eyepieces.    Living in a dew heavy climate makes swapping eyepieces a little more difficult and time consuming.  That's all - it doesn't stop me from using more than 3 eyepieces if I decide I want to.  

 

 

[Procyon]

Surprised you have issues with Pollen too in upstate NY. I currently live about 100 miles north of you and never had to deal with Pollen. Dew is a big problem here too though, but mostly in the fall and winter. Summer too I guess sometimes, especially near forests. Why I love Galaxy season in April and early May, I can just leave the eyepieces on the tripod. But nowadays I just put every eyepiece back in the case next to me when I switch ep's, to be sure.

Edited by Procyon, 17 May 2025 - 08:26 AM.

[russell23]

Surprised you have issues with Pollen too in upstate NY. I currently live about 100 miles north of you and never had to deal with Pollen. Dew is a big problem here too though, but mostly in the fall and winter. Summer too I guess sometimes, especially near forests. Why I love Galaxy season in April and early May, I can just leave the eyepieces on the tripod. But nowadays I just put every eyepiece back in the case next to me when I switch ep's, to be sure.

My car's wind shield is covered with pollen this time of year if I leave it out over night.  The pine trees around our house produce a lot of pollen - as do the dandelions this time of year.  I am surrounded by forest so that may explain the difference.  August through October is the other time the pollen gets bad here. 

[izar187]

The 3 ep's that I will be using for 90% of the scope time on my next excursion to darkerness, hopefully in the next few days,

will be in and out of cargo pockets on my person, to countermeasure the certainty of dew, and the forecasted prediction of frost.

[Jehujones]

The 3 ep's that I will be using for 90% of the scope time on my next excursion to darkerness, hopefully in the next few days,

will be in and out of cargo pockets on my person, to countermeasure the certainty of dew, and the forecasted prediction of frost.

What has it got in its nasty little pocketses?

 

  

[Redbetter]

Dew really shouldn't have an impact on the number of eyepieces used either way.  Jon brought up dew in the context of the fact that he can have his eyepieces uncapped and on his tripod legs ready to go because he lives in a dry climate.  I live in a very wet climate and dew is major issue almost every night I go out. As is pollen many nights.  So I keep my eyepieces in their case with caps on and top of the case down, because even the case can start to accumulate moisture if I leave it open.  

 

What I think about dew and the number of eyepieces is that, if I happen to have a limited set of eyepieces I am using, then that limits wasted time fumbling around for the caps when swapping eyepieces because there is less eyepiece swapping.  Most caps are black and feeling around for those loose caps in an eyepiece case with gloves on sometimes takes time if the caps did not settle into the eyepiece's slot when I popped them off to use the eyepiece.  The dew is not a driving force for only using 3 eyepieces.    Living in a dew heavy climate makes swapping eyepieces a little more difficult and time consuming.  That's all - it doesn't stop me from using more than 3 eyepieces if I decide I want to.  

In a dew heavy environment, eyepieces dew quickly if left exposed to the sky.  That is my experience. And that means swapping out eyepieces has been necessary to continue observing.  Having a system for rotating eyepieces rapidly is convenient and works.  The eyepiece goes into the insulated ready/warming box as soon as it begins to show fogging, and will be back in service in 10 minutes or so, while I observe with another in the meantime (adjacent magnification increment).

 

While dew is not a frequent problem here at my primary site, dew and frost are still issues at times.   During the wet months, dew is an issue observing In the valley, including my back yard. And I have lived in areas where dew was a bigger problem.  Of course a case will accumulate moisture if left open; when conditions are dewy it happens rapidly, which is why I don't leave cases open, eyepieces exposed, or even in the focuser when I am not observing. 

 

Natural rotation of eyepieces when observing means that they get enough time in the warming box to be ready, rather than dewing frequently as I am trying to observe.  That natural rotation arises from wanting to see the various aspects of the things I am looking at, rather than taking a one-size-fits all approach that misses things.

 

So, whether there is dew or frost, I am not "fumbling around for the caps when swapping eyepieces."  The caps are in their eyepiece boxes, while the eyepieces are in the ready/warming box.  

[izar187]

What has it got in its nasty little pocketses?

 

  

String or nothing!

[Sarkikos]

I have to question the logic of the dew argument.  Instead of driving toward using fewer eyepieces, dew makes the actual use of more eyepieces helpful.  Dew was one of the concerns I had about using a Hyperion zoom since I never want to be overly dependent on a single eyepiece.

 

Dew is why I began using an insulated box when observing, so that eyepieces weren't exposed to the night sky and sub-cooling while not in the focuser.  For the 20" I keep my 5 ready eyepieces in the box for my most needed increments.  They are uncapped and ready to go.  When dewing is an issue I will swap out eyepieces to the next logical increment.  Meanwhile, I can activate a heating pack in the box to warm the cold eyepiece that has begun to dew.  I sometimes swap out my finder eyepiece the same way, and for the same reasons.

 

So when dew and frost are more of an issue, I will often end up adding a 6th eyepiece to the box at some point (typically a 13mm) and also employ the 11mm more than I normally would.  And I generally add a 7th somewhere in the session, a 24 Pan to swap out the 25 HD60 in the finder.  

 

But even without dew, the set of eyepieces used on any given night is dependent on the seeing and the aperture chosen, and that can slide a notch or two up or down.  I dial in for what is optimal for observing the various details of the targets.  With apertures under 5" that almost always involves a range on the high end, not some single fixed level.  Couple with that a low mag eyepiece (for finding and for large showpiece objects) and a mid magnification for framing/scale.

Active dew prevention at the focuser makes sense to me:  either a warming strip around the eyepiece or an eye cap on the eye lens of the eyepiece when it's in the focuser but not being viewed through, or both. 

 

But lately, I haven't been bothering with warming strips.  I just cap the eyepiece that's in the focuser when I step away from the scope and keep the other eyepieces in a closed equipment case.  This seems to be good enough if I observe for only two or three hours.  All-night sessions at dark sites are a thing of the past for me.

 

When I take an eyepiece out of the case, I bring the eye lens cap with it.  (I leave the field lens caps in the house.)  When the eyepiece is in the focuser, and I'm viewing through the eyepiece, I keep the cap in my pocket.  When I step away from the scope, I reach in my pocket, take out the cap and put it on the eyepiece.  Simple and easy.  No fumbling around for caps.

 

Sometimes, when I'm observing with a Dob, I'll place three or so eyepieces in the rack on the Dob mount.  I'll keep the eye caps on all of them until I'm ready to use one.  No field lens caps.  They are in the house.

 

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos, 17 May 2025 - 07:45 PM.

[AntaresPL]

My solution for dew problem is keeping eps in my pockets while not observing. The warm of my body will keep them slightly warmer than stored outside openly. Another solution is insulated box or case for eps as you mentioned above. Haven't tried it out yet, but I might try it in the future. Warming strip I use only for my secondary mirror. The biggest problem in my 8" Newtonian is main mirror. It likes to get dewy, but I have been using plastic bag to cover my mirror at the end of the tube to protect dew going into the tube from outisde. 

Edited by AntaresPL, 18 May 2025 - 02:07 AM.

[Dobs O Fun]

Let's stay on topic please, which is: Anybody else do 90% of their observing with just 3 Eyepieces?

Not dew.

Please and thank you.

[Sarkikos]

Dew really shouldn't have an impact on the number of eyepieces used either way.  Jon brought up dew in the context of the fact that he can have his eyepieces uncapped and on his tripod legs ready to go because he lives in a dry climate.  I live in a very wet climate and dew is major issue almost every night I go out. As is pollen many nights.  So I keep my eyepieces in their case with caps on and top of the case down, because even the case can start to accumulate moisture if I leave it open.  

 

What I think about dew and the number of eyepieces is that, if I happen to have a limited set of eyepieces I am using, then that limits wasted time fumbling around for the caps when swapping eyepieces because there is less eyepiece swapping.  Most caps are black and feeling around for those loose caps in an eyepiece case with gloves on sometimes takes time if the caps did not settle into the eyepiece's slot when I popped them off to use the eyepiece.  The dew is not a driving force for only using 3 eyepieces.    Living in a dew heavy climate makes swapping eyepieces a little more difficult and time consuming.  That's all - it doesn't stop me from using more than 3 eyepieces if I decide I want to.  

You only have one eyepiece in the focuser at one time - unless you're binoviewing.    In any case, I don't leave the eyepiece cap in the case.  I put it in my pocket.  The eyepiece that is in the focuser will always have its cap either in my pocket or on the eyepiece itself.  So, no chance of eyepiece caps being mixed up, or having to search for the cap in the case.

 

Also, I keep the caps for the field lenses of the eyepieces in the house.  I make an exception when the field lens is very close to the end of the eyepiece barrel.  Then I have the field lens cap on the eyepiece when it's in the case, to prevent the lens from being scuffed or dirtied by the foam in the eyepiece case.

 

I always take my gloves off when handling eyepieces, filters or other delicate equipment.  In fact, I usually don't wear gloves at all - even though I have Reynaud's - because the gloves get in the way.  In my experience, it's very fiddly and frustrating to have to keep pulling the gloves off and putting them back on.  So, I don't wear gloves during an observing session.  (Same reason why I usually keep my eyeglasses on.)  Instead, I keep electric warming devices in my left and right pockets of my jacket, and warm my hands with them when my hands start to get cold.

 

I follow this same protocol when I'm observing with only three eyepieces - which is probably most of the time, easily 90%.  Most of my observing now is what many would call "grab and go."  The number of eyepieces doesn't make a difference.

 

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos, 18 May 2025 - 11:21 AM.

[Procyon]

I don't leave the eyepiece cap in the case.  I put it in my pocket.  

 

Lol, why not? I used to be a cap in the pocket type of guy, nowadays, I like hearing the caps drop in the correct eyepiece hole when I grab an eyepiece from the case. But the little suckers always find a way to go in a different hole or just roll off anywhere else but their hole. By the way, I have a feeling the mods will click on the self destruct button for these posts. 

 

Also, I keep the caps for the field lenses of the eyepieces in the house.  I make an exception when the field lens is very close to the end of the eyepiece barrel.  Then I have the field lens cap on the eyepiece when it's in the case, to prevent the lens from being scuffed or dirtied by the foam in the eyepiece case.

 

Mike's gone off the eyecap reservation trail lol. 

 

I always take my gloves off when handling eyepieces, filters or other delicate equipment.  In fact, I usually don't wear gloves at all - even though I have Reynaud's - because the gloves get in the way.  In my experience, it's very fiddly and frustrating to have to keep pulling the gloves off and putting them back on.  So, I don't wear gloves during an observing session.  (Same reason why I usually keep my eyeglasses on.)  Instead, I keep electric warming devices in my left and right pockets of my jacket, and warm my hands with them when my hands start to get cold.

 

The only gloves I can work with are the ones where the finger slots snap back and attach to a velcro. Very practical during winter.

 

I follow this same protocol when I'm observing with only three eyepieces - which is probably most of the time, easily 90%.  Most of my observing now is what many would call "grab and go."  The number of eyepieces doesn't make a difference.

 

We want to know which 3 ep's you use.   And how you transport them too.  

 

Mike

[payner]

If Tele Vue had differing polish standards between lines that would be quickly recognized. They know that and know that would not be a smart move, by smart people, for their company’s reputation. 

[Sarkikos]

 

I don't leave the eyepiece cap in the case.  I put it in my pocket.  

 

Lol, why not? I used to be a cap in the pocket type of guy, nowadays, I like hearing the caps drop in the correct eyepiece hole when I grab an eyepiece from the case. But the little suckers always find a way to go in a different hole or just roll off anywhere else but their hole. By the way, I have a feeling the mods will click on the self destruct button for these posts. 

 

Also, I keep the caps for the field lenses of the eyepieces in the house.  I make an exception when the field lens is very close to the end of the eyepiece barrel.  Then I have the field lens cap on the eyepiece when it's in the case, to prevent the lens from being scuffed or dirtied by the foam in the eyepiece case.

 

Mike's gone off the eyecap reservation trail lol. 

 

I always take my gloves off when handling eyepieces, filters or other delicate equipment.  In fact, I usually don't wear gloves at all - even though I have Reynaud's - because the gloves get in the way.  In my experience, it's very fiddly and frustrating to have to keep pulling the gloves off and putting them back on.  So, I don't wear gloves during an observing session.  (Same reason why I usually keep my eyeglasses on.)  Instead, I keep electric warming devices in my left and right pockets of my jacket, and warm my hands with them when my hands start to get cold.

 

The only gloves I can work with are the ones where the finger slots snap back and attach to a velcro. Very practical during winter.

 

I follow this same protocol when I'm observing with only three eyepieces - which is probably most of the time, easily 90%.  Most of my observing now is what many would call "grab and go."  The number of eyepieces doesn't make a difference.

 

We want to know which 3 ep's you use.   And how you transport them too.  

 

Mike

 

Cap in the pocket for easier access when I'm observing.  Why get up and open up the case when you don't need to?

 

I only take out what I actually need.  You don't need the field lens caps during an observing session.  Dew doesn't fall up. 

 

Fingerless gloves are not practical for observers with Raynaud's.  The coldest part of my hands are the fingers.  Fingerless gloves are useless for me.  

 

I listed my three eyepieces way back in post #139. 

 

35 Ultrascopic, 30 UFF or 28 UWA

Leica Zoom

Baader Zoom + 2.25x Barlow

 

Actually, I use the Svbony 3-8mm Zoom more often in the third slot. 

 

I "transport" them - carry them from my house to the yard - in a small equipment bag.  

 

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos, 18 May 2025 - 09:30 PM.

[Procyon]

Cap in the pocket for easier access when I'm observing.  Why get up and open up the case when you don't need to?

 

I only take out what I actually need.  You don't need the field lens caps during an observing session.  Dew doesn't fall up. 

 

Fingerless gloves are not practical for observers with Raynaud's.  The coldest part of my hands are the fingers.  Fingerless gloves are useless for me.  

 

I listed my three eyepieces way back in post #139. 

 

35 Ultrascopic, 30 UFF or 28 UWA

Leica Zoom

Baader Zoom + 2.25x Barlow

 

Actually, I use the Svbony 3-8mm Zoom more often in the third slot. 

 

I "transport" them - carry them from my house to the yard - in a small equipment bag.  

 

Mike

I always bumble them up in my pockets, have case on floor or chair next to me, why get up like you said lol, meant gloves that allow you to lift the finger section off for a few seconds to use them for something specific than place the cotton finger section back over your fingers, 35 Ultrascopic very interesting! Good stuff.

Edited by Procyon, 18 May 2025 - 09:40 PM.

[Sarkikos]

I always bumble them up in my pockets, have case on floor or chair next to me, why get up like you said lol, meant gloves that allow you to lift the finger section off for a few seconds to use them for something specific than place the cotton finger section back over your fingers, 35 Ultrascopic very interesting! Good stuff.

Yes, I've used that type of glove, too.  I've tried them all, even gloves that have electric heating.  None really work well for me.  I'm seeing a rheumatologist now.  I didn't even know that's the type of specialist I should see about Raynaud's!   Hopefully, she can prescribe medication that will help.  

 

The 35 Ultrascopic is my favorite low power eyepiece in 1.25" format.

 

Mike

Edited by Sarkikos, 19 May 2025 - 07:09 AM.

[Tropobob]

Last night, at the end of a three-hour observing session, I had to put 9 eyepieces back where they belonged.  

[Jehujones]

On any given night, on any single object, if I spend 4 minutes swapping eyepieces to get the view I want and then the next 36 minutes enjoying that view, then I guess I could say I do 90% of my observing with just 1 eyepiece. 
(yes, I know that’s not really how the question was supposed to work)

Seriously though, once I find the right view I’ll just spend the rest of the time taking it in until I move on to the next target. 

[Jeff Morgan]

Let's stay on topic please, which is: Anybody else do 90% of their observing with just 3 Eyepieces?

Not dew.

Please and thank you.

 

Over the years I have moved away from the “different guns for different game” approach and come to appreciate the “minimalist” approach. Something to be said for the continuity and efficiency of less monkey-work. Though I must admit using a zoom makes the sacrifice … minimal.

 

26 Nagler

12.5 Docter

Barlowed 8.9-17.8 Leica Zoom.

 

That really does cover 90% - a proposition I would have rejected outright 15 years ago. And sometimes I go for a pure double star session using the older 7.3-22 Leica Zoom exclusively. 

 

If I locate the longer focal ratio Maksutov I’ve been scoping for that could upset the apple cart a bit. A new (and substantially different) telescope has a way of doing that. And then a binoviewer becomes a live option, and maybe just a pair (or two) of eyepieces.

[izar187]

Last night, at the end of a three-hour observing session, I had to put 9 eyepieces back where they belonged.  

Perfect! Because any number is absolutely AOK.

 

Last night I visited globular clusters, galaxies and doubles in 13" with my usual 3.

A 32mm, 11mm and 7mm, parfocalized to match, kept from dew and frost in warm pockets.

The seeing and transparency would not support more, so 10% of 5mm wasn't worth even trying, to me.

All bright compact targets, by choice.