10 replies to this topic

[Mimmok]

Hi everyone, I recently purchased the star sense autoguider for my C8 Edge HD and I normally use NINA as acquisition software. I would like to activate dithering but I don't understand whether within CPWI I have to select the PH2D choice and whether  in NINA I have to choose "Direct Guide" or "PH2D Server" or other . Unfortunately there are conflicting opinions online regarding these settings. Thanks to anyone who can provide me with clarification

[freestar8n]

Direct Guide dithering just tells the mount to move a small amount directly and doesn't involve a guiding system at all.

 

So you want to enable the phd2 server in cpwi and tell NINA to dither by sending messages to the phd2 server.  But you don't need to actually start phd2 - and NINA doesn't need to know that phd2 isn't really running.  NINA will connect to the phd2 server in cpwi and send dither commands to it.

 

Frank

[Mimmok]

Direct Guide dithering just tells the mount to move a small amount directly and doesn't involve a guiding system at all.

 

So you want to enable the phd2 server in cpwi and tell NINA to dither by sending messages to the phd2 server.  But you don't need to actually start phd2 - and NINA doesn't need to know that phd2 isn't really running.  NINA will connect to the phd2 server in cpwi and send dither commands to it.

 

Frank

Hi freestar8n thanks for your replay. So you say to enable the PH2D server in CPWI and select too PH2D choice (not direct guide) in the guider NINA section. Isn't it?

[hidalgo]

I just discovered this as well. In NINA do NOT use PHD2 for guider, choose Direct guide. That worked for me and my CGEM II mount. Why is nothing ever straight forward. Here's a good video on NINA and SSAG;  https://youtu.be/Bh0...?feature=shared

Edited by hidalgo, 05 July 2024 - 05:19 PM.

[freestar8n]

I just discovered this as well. In NINA do NOT use PHD2 for guider, choose Direct guide. That worked for me and my CGEM II mount. Why is nothing ever straight forward. Here's a good video on NINA and SSAG;  https://youtu.be/Bh0...?feature=shared

I'm afraid that doesn't make any sense.  It may give the appearance of dithering - but unless there is something magic going on - it is just moving the mount and then coming back to the previous guide location.

 

Direct Guide dithering just tells the mount to move a bit randomly.  If you aren't guiding that will work fine for dithering - as long as the mount doesn't have much backlash.

 

But if you *are* guiding with the SSAG and you make that small dither movement and SSAG *doesn't know you just dithered* - then the SSAG will view it as a guiding error and bring the mount back to where it was previously guiding.  And you end up simply undoing the dither movement.

 

I didn't see the whole video but to confirm dithering is really happening you would compare the exposures.  Each exposure should show tight round stars and the stars should be moving around a bit from one frame to the next.  (Or every 3rd frame if that is how you dither).

 

The way to dither with the SSAG is to enable the PhD2 server in cpwi and tell NINA to dither with PhD2.  If that isn't working then please describe exactly what's going wrong.  You may need to set the dither amount in the cpwi ssag dither settings.

 

Frank

[freestar8n]

There are several cpwi manuals on the celstron and other websites but most of them aren't up to date regarding ssag.

 

This one seems up to date and describes how to dither with SSAG and NINA:

 

https://celestron-si...5_Languages.pdf

 

 

 

When enabled in CPWI’s StarSense AG menu, the PHD2 Server allows CPWI to receive PHD2 commands. With the PH2 Server, other thirdparty software that integrates with PHD2, like NINA, can now directly use the CPWI instance as a guider.

NINA is a popular, free, and open-source capture tool for advanced imaging and sequencing. It supports PHD2 as a guider and uses PHD2 to perform image dithering. CPWI’s PHD2 Server will pass through the start/stop guiding and dithering instructions and relay these back to the connected SSAG.

First, to set up the PHD2 Server, ensure CPWI is running, SSAG is connected, and the PHD2 Server option is enabled in the StarSense AG menu. Next, you’ll  need to connect an imaging camera to NINA. In the upper left corner of NINA, go to “Equipment,” then “Camera,” select the imaging camera you are using, and press Connect. NINA should connect to your camera.

You can also connect NINA to your Celestron mount if you’d like. To do this, go to “Equipment,” then “Telescope,” select “Celestron/CPWI,” and press Connect. NINA should connect to your mount through CPWI.

Next, go to “Equipment,” then “Guider,” select “PHD2,” and press Connect. The Guider Settings section will appear in the upper right corner of NINA (Figure 20).

Initially, you may see an error that PHD2 cannot be found, but this should be followed quickly by a note that the guider is connected.

Then there are more details on setting the dither parameters...

 

Frank

[SailDoc]

I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but I 'm new to this game.   I have a Celestron Edge HD8 with Starsense Autoguider and am using NINA as my acquisition software.   I have had several frustrating nights, some good ones.   Could you please go through the settings for guiding in CPWI?   I have been setting it to always guide, start guiding and PHD2 server, with the Precise GoTo and Meridian Flip remaining off.   With these settings I have designated Direct Autoguider in NINA as my guiding.   But often I get smeared stars with trails, as if the two are "fighting" each other for control.   In the previous post, I seem to interpret your settings as PHD2 guiding in NINA, with only the PHD2 server on in CPWI.   Is this correct, or am I missing something?   Thank you for helping a poor ignorant Newbie.

[freestar8n]

I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but I 'm new to this game.   I have a Celestron Edge HD8 with Starsense Autoguider and am using NINA as my acquisition software.   I have had several frustrating nights, some good ones.   Could you please go through the settings for guiding in CPWI?   I have been setting it to always guide, start guiding and PHD2 server, with the Precise GoTo and Meridian Flip remaining off.   With these settings I have designated Direct Autoguider in NINA as my guiding.   But often I get smeared stars with trails, as if the two are "fighting" each other for control.   In the previous post, I seem to interpret your settings as PHD2 guiding in NINA, with only the PHD2 server on in CPWI.   Is this correct, or am I missing something?   Thank you for helping a poor ignorant Newbie.

The concept is pretty simple:  NINA should do everything normally done to do guiding and dithering via PhD2 - but PhD2 should not be running and instead all the commands from NINA will be received and acted upon by CPWI/SSAG via its internal PhD2 server.

 

As soon as you tell NINA to do direct guiding or direct dithering - it is doing that without telling PhD2 (hence CPWI/SSAG) and the two things will fight.

 

The imaging app needs to talk to the guiding app to send a few commands and receive updates on the guide error so it can plot.  The main commands are : Guiding On/Off and Dither.  And all the time, the guide software is broadcasting the current guide error to NINA.  This can all happen just by telling NINA to guide using PhD2 - but make sure PhD2 is not running and instead the PhD2 server in CPWI is running.

 

I don't think you need to have Guiding Always On in CPWI - NINA should be able to tell CPWI when to turn on/off guiding.  But I would double check that.

 

Frank

Edited by freestar8n, 16 July 2024 - 05:47 PM.

[Bob LaFleur]

It seems as this approach work for Sharpcap in place of NINA.  has anybody tried this?

[AresB]

I may be a bit late to the party...
True to the name of this forum I used the last few cloudy nights to try and get the SSAG integrated in to N.I.N.A as described in the SSAG manual.
I previously used the Direct Guider method with mostly good results, but I am a sucker for live graphs and having them in CPWI only just didn't do it for me.

 

So, here's what did the trick for me, using NINA and CPWI:

1. PHD2: download and install*!
2. NINA: in 'Equipment'>Guider choose PHD2 and click the Gears-Icon to set it up: Nina will throw an error if the path to phd2.exe is not set regardless of CPWI having the PHD2 Server enabled.
3. Firewall/Security: Check your Windows Firewall or security software and allow CPWI and NINA to use any protocol on any port in any direction. The PHD2 Server will use port 4400.
4. PHD2: start it up, skipt the setup guide and go to Tools and uncheck 'Enable Server', and exit PHD2

5. For your imaging sessions the just start CPWI, connect to the mount, do or load an alignment, then deactivate Precise GoTo (I have the Meridian Flip disabled, too) - I usually go with Guiding Always On enabled, too.
6. NINA: Connect to the Mount (CPWI), connect the other equipment and connect Guider: PHD2. This will now start PHD2 with the server disabled, leaving only CPWI's PHD2-Server to receive commands.
After a few seconds you should get a success message and the profile shown on the equipment/guider page will show cpwi-phd like it does in the manual! Now, the relevant settings can be made in NINA and your good to guide and to dither from NINA!

 

Note: for a successful connection the SSAG must see stars! I did this indoors first, with a lens cap still on the guider and it never successfully connected. I guess that's due to SSAG starting with a calibration and only starts to react to commands once it's happy with the stars it found - cap on, no stars, no success.

7. enjoy the live guiding graphs 

 

*Unfortunately, there is no parameter to tell PHD2 to start up without the server, so: if you actually use PHD2 for another setup (requiring the actual PHD2 server to run). just install a second instance of PHD2 for the use with CPWI, have the path in NINA point to it and disable it's server.

 

I found this to improve the collaboration between NINA and CPWI quite a bit, less hassle overall - regarding guiding and dithering, that is...CPWI still drives me crazy on an regular basis, but the actual guiding is no longer on the list of my complaints and grievances.

 

Clear Skies!

Edited by AresB, 21 March 2025 - 06:57 AM.

[Tim Bitting]

I may be a bit late to the party...
True to the name of this forum I used the last few cloudy nights to try and get the SSAG integrated in to N.I.N.A as described in the SSAG manual.
I previously used the Direct Guider method with mostly good results, but I am a sucker for live graphs and having them in CPWI only just didn't do it for me.

 

So, here's what did the trick for me, using NINA and CPWI:

1. PHD2: download and install*!
2. NINA: in 'Equipment'>Guider choose PHD2 and click the Gears-Icon to set it up: Nina will throw an error if the path to phd2.exe is not set regardless of CPWI having the PHD2 Server enabled.
3. Firewall/Security: Check your Windows Firewall or security software and allow CPWI and NINA to use any protocol on any port in any direction. The PHD2 Server will use port 4400.
4. PHD2: start it up, skipt the setup guide and go to Tools and uncheck 'Enable Server', and exit PHD2

5. For your imaging sessions the just start CPWI, connect to the mount, do or load an alignment, then deactivate Precise GoTo (I have the Meridian Flip disabled, too) - I usually go with Guiding Always On enabled, too.
6. NINA: Connect to the Mount (CPWI), connect the other equipment and connect Guider: PHD2. This will now start PHD2 with the server disabled, leaving only CPWI's PHD2-Server to receive commands.
After a few seconds you should get a success message and the profile shown on the equipment/guider page will show cpwi-phd like it does in the manual! Now, the relevant settings can be made in NINA and your good to guide and to dither from NINA!

 

Note: for a successful connection the SSAG must see stars! I did this indoors first, with a lens cap still on the guider and it never successfully connected. I guess that's due to SSAG starting with a calibration and only starts to react to commands once it's happy with the stars it found - cap on, no stars, no success.

7. enjoy the live guiding graphs 

 

*Unfortunately, there is no parameter to tell PHD2 to start up without the server, so: if you actually use PHD2 for another setup (requiring the actual PHD2 server to run). just install a second instance of PHD2 for the use with CPWI, have the path in NINA point to it and disable it's server.

 

I found this to improve the collaboration between NINA and CPWI quite a bit, less hassle overall - regarding guiding and dithering, that is...CPWI still drives me crazy on an regular basis, but the actual guiding is no longer on the list of my complaints and grievances.

 

Clear Skies!

Thank you AresB! I tried to figure this out 8 months ago and finely just gave up. I decided to give it another try and found your post. The SSAG manual is terrible for this part of the unit.  I have PHD2 installed now just need a clear night to try it out.

 

Tim